^ Killa, I put the word "improvement" in there cause that was DOLAN's words, not mine. No other implication.

Posted by martin:

how about this: There is something to be said that a .500 next year will be an "impovement" in the eyes of Dolan and so Isiah stays.

You are saying that there is something to be said that .500 is an improvement. What is there to be said?

Posted by bigbeast:

Posted by BasketballJones:

I'd still like to know: Who are the "true" Knick fans, and who are the "untrue" knick fans?

The title of the thread is a little misleading. As I said before, it just seems that some people are rooting harder for Isiah to fail than for the Knicks to suceed.

Why do you assume that the two are mutually exclusive?

Anyone pissed off at Isiah has a right to be. Its fair because even if the players he aquired turn out to work out he still overpaid for most of them. And put them(fans) through more stress and a longer wait then he should have. 2 first rd picks one which would have been lottery if we didn't trade for Marbury and took back a ton of salary. He could have waited until the draft. And swapped our lottery pick Ward & Eisley for Marbury straight up. Even if he couldn't get that deal. The lottery pick would have been able to land a stud the same calibre of Marbury. 4 draft picks one of them the #2 pick in the draft because he didn't protect it. The right to swap next yrs picks on a draft for Eddie Curry. When we were bidding against ourselves. And even if we weren't that was still to much to give up for anything but a proven stud.

Marbury & Curry winning a championship together would be the only way for those deals to be okay.

Balkman at 20 they say nobody had him rated that high at 20 so if Isiah wanted better value he should have traded down kept the value and still landed his man Balkman. Even if he didn't land Balkman there were still guys like him later on that he could have settled for and not missed out on to much. But still maximized the value which evens it out.(I'm thinking thats Briggs view). Its not as big a deal as the other moves though.

Im not the complaining type though. And though I am willing to agree that Isiah has set us back where we should be right now. Curry, Frye, Lee, Nate, Crawford, Collins, Balkman can still make a nice core a couple of yrs from now. If Isiah got fired and someone else came and stopped overpaying in trades and continued to draft solid then we would be in very good shape. Or is Isiah can stop overpaying in trades and continue to draft well then we will be in very good shape. The thing is a lot of people don't have the faith in Isiah to do so. Which is why they rather have him fail and get fired then risk having him do good. And then set the team back again with a trade overpaying for somebody.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by martin:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by martin:

how about this: There is something to be said that a .500 next year will be an "impovement" in the eyes of Dolan and so Isiah stays.

You are saying that there is something to be said that .500 is an improvement. What is there to be said?

er, that Isiah did a good job and should stay.

You obviously meant something by it, but if you no longer want to stand by that, thats fine.

I meant exactly what I said. No need to put words into my mouth.

.500 is NOT an improvement if the Knicks are not playing defense and are just trying to outscore other teams. I want this team to be closer to a CHAMPIONSHIP team and not just a playoff contender. If this team is playing hard night-in and night-out with defenfse and hardwork then I will be happy with whatever the result is.

If I see a 42-42 record and these players just trying to run a trackmeet on offense I want Isiah gone becuase that is NOT how championships are won.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by martin:

I meant exactly what I said. No need to put words into my mouth.

Martin, usually when people say "there is something to be said about x"........it means there is something to be said about it. But apparently, when you say "there is something to be said about x" ........it means there is nothing to be said about it.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 07-10-2006 1:00 PM]

try #2: I was implying that Isiah did a good job or a good enough job in the eyes of Dolan and should stay. That he did well as a coach fro last year to this coming year. That there is some truth and foundation to it. That it holds substance and one could argue that point of view (not that it may particularly be MY point of view however. Not that in a literal sense I have to add more words to the conversation.

This is the same as when I replied: "er, that Isiah did a good job and should stay."

I feel like I am speaking a foreign language here.