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crzymdups
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6/29/2006  5:11 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


I dont know if people make sht up or pull it out of their arse--latrell was nearly a 20 point scorer his senior year and was a lock first round pick -case closed. this kid is light years from latrell sprewell-- think trevor ariza a little shorter slightly bigger with 4/5 of trevors ups.

I'm not comparing this kid to Spree. Just remembering watching the draft on TV and the "experts" not knowing who he was when Nelson picked him, and despite the experts not knowing, Spree turned out okay.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-29-2006 5:12 PM]
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islesfan
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6/29/2006  5:13 PM
Country A has 100 gigantic hangars filled with every kind of gun. Rockets, smart bombs and all other kinds of weaponry.

Country B has a single hangar with a 10 Nuclear bombs.

Who has a bigger arsenal?

Who can do more damage with what they have?

Shaq and Wilt Chamberlain sure scored a lot of points and dominated with such limited offensive arsenals.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Solace
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6/29/2006  5:14 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Country A has 100 gigantic hangars filled with every kind of gun. Rockets, smart bombs and all other kinds of weaponry.

Country B has a single hangar with a 10 Nuclear bombs.

Who has a bigger arsenal?

Who can do more damage with what they have?

Shaq and Wilt Chamberlain sure scored a lot of points and dominated with such limited offensive arsenals.

Well said. Not hard to figure out.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
misterearl
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6/29/2006  5:17 PM
Briggs - what about Balkman did you like?

What did you dislike?

Has anybody "manned up" about wanting better defenders wearing Knicks uniforms yet?

jus' checking
once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  5:19 PM
if you liked trevor ariza, you will like this kid. i liked trevor i think his ceiling is higher than this kid. it doesnt take away that this kid was picked atleast 20 spots to soon. he cant shoot worse than trevor imho--his handle is just OK hes a powerful dunker he plays helter skelter, but this si the kind of player you put in the NBDL.
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BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  5:23 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Briggs - what about Balkman did you like?

What did you dislike?

Has anybody "manned up" about wanting better defenders wearing Knicks uniforms yet?

jus' checking


Id like to know whats wrong with maurice ager? why the F didnt the Knicks take a defender who can rebound yet also has a full offesnive skill set in a league catering towards offense? there is pick 29 there is dropping back there is taking bobby jones or david noel i mean I dont think we got the right value at 20. maurice ager is 20 value shannon brown is 20 value balkman is 40 value
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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6/29/2006  5:33 PM
i guess you know something that the NBA GM's don't BRIGGS, cuz plenty of them passed on your boy Marcus Williams when they had the chance too... Larry Bird passed on him & the Pacers were alot more in need of another PG than we were... so what do you know that these guys don't?

so far all i'm hearing is you claiming this guy Balkman is NBDL talent & that there were no other teams that were going to take him in the 1st round... according to what? Jay Bilas? ESPN? cuz personally i was clueless as to what really went on behind the scenes during draft night, as i'm pretty positive about 99.99% of the rest of this forum were as well.

all i know is Isiah's past draft choices have panned out pretty well considering where he picked & what was available after... if a guy who was taken after Balkman emerges next season as a legitimate sleeper, then you can go off on your rant & be justified.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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6/29/2006  5:43 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Country A has 100 gigantic hangars filled with every kind of gun. Rockets, smart bombs and all other kinds of weaponry.

Country B has a single hangar with a 10 Nuclear bombs.

Who has a bigger arsenal?

Who can do more damage with what they have?

Shaq and Wilt Chamberlain sure scored a lot of points and dominated with such limited offensive arsenals.



Yes, Nalod, thanks for making my point for me. Having a huge offensive arsenal, such as Sam Cassell is not the same thing as scoring a lot of points or by your analogy "being able to do damage". That was never the point. Stoudamire, nor Marion have a huge affensive arsenal, but they are very effective in the couple of things they do.

The person who brought up huge offensive arsenals was Briggs. Apparently he does not understand what that means. It means having a large variety of moves and shots to go to. Like Kobe Bryant, or Dwyane Wade, or Rick Barry.

You can be very good and score a lot of points without a huge offensive arsenal if you are good enough at what you do.

20 guns is an arsenal. A bazooka is not an arsenal. This is a fact.

The problem is Briggs just rants so much he can't even keep his points striaght.

were to the point where someone is arguing whther shaq has a huge offensive game. please STFU its moronic

I guess it is one of those manic days for you where you just can't control yourself, or even think straight huh Briggs?

What's moronic? He doesn't have a huge offensive arsenal. If you disagree, please articulate what Shaq's huge offensive arsenal is if you are capable of doing so.

Shaq just can't be stopped on the 2-to-3 moves he has developed over 14 years. Nothing wrong with that, but he certainly does not have the huge offensive arsenal of say, Tim Duncan, or Hakeem Olajuwan. Do you get it now? I'm sorry that subtlety is lost on you, but I knew that was the case anyway.

By the way, speaking of STFU, how did that Antoine Walker argument we had last summer end up? I believe you called him a chemistry killer and stated that he was terrible. As usual, you will skip over responding to this item the way you always do.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 06-29-2006 8:48 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  5:48 PM
Posted by TMS:

i guess you know something that the NBA GM's don't BRIGGS, cuz plenty of them passed on your boy Marcus Williams when they had the chance too... Larry Bird passed on him & the Pacers were alot more in need of another PG than we were... so what do you know that these guys don't?

so far all i'm hearing is you claiming this guy Balkman is NBDL talent & that there were no other teams that were going to take him in the 1st round... according to what? Jay Bilas? ESPN? cuz personally i was clueless as to what really went on behind the scenes during draft night, as i'm pretty positive about 99.99% of the rest of this forum were as well.

all i know is Isiah's past draft choices have panned out pretty well considering where he picked & what was available after... if a guy who was taken after Balkman emerges next season as a legitimate sleeper, then you can go off on your rant & be justified.

I cant argue with people who have not seen him or atleast know who he is. You are just talking out of your arse with no basis of the conversation because you dont even know who the player is. I STRONGLY believe VERY VERY strongly believe we couldve DROPPED back into round 2 OR at a MINIMUM picked him 29. I think that a David Noel is a guy who has more than what this kid offers, reminds me a bit of jerome kersey, he has the nba body he has more skills/athletiscm but hes still a 2nd round guy. Maurice Ager well why am I going on because you dont know who the im talking about anyway--you know i listen to people here and on the radio and 98% dont know who these players are--even some of the top tier guys. Either you watch a ton of CBB and you know the players or you dont. I know who this kid is, hes a trevor ariza type player, a second round pick.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  5:51 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by islesfan:

Country A has 100 gigantic hangars filled with every kind of gun. Rockets, smart bombs and all other kinds of weaponry.

Country B has a single hangar with a 10 Nuclear bombs.

Who has a bigger arsenal?

Who can do more damage with what they have?

Shaq and Wilt Chamberlain sure scored a lot of points and dominated with such limited offensive arsenals.



Yes, Nalod, thanks for making my point for me. Having a huge offensive arsenal, such as Sam Cassell is not the same thing as scoring a lot of points or by your analogy "being able to do damage". That was never the point. Stoudamire, nor Marion have a huge affensive arsenal, but they are very effective in the couple of things do.

The person who brought up huge offensive arsenals was Briggs. Apparently he does not understand what that means. It means having a large variety of moves and shots to go to. Like Kobe Bryant, or Dwyane Wade, or Rick Barry.

You can be very good and score a lot of points without a huge offensive arsenal if you are good enough at what you do.

20 guns is an arsenal. A bazooka is not an arsenal. This is a fact

The problem is Briggs just rants so much he can't even keep his points striaght.

were to the point where someone is arguing whther shaq has a huge offensive game. please STFU its moronic

I guess it is one of those manic days for you where you just can't control yourself, or even think straight huh Briggs?

What's moronic? He doesn't have a huge offensive arsenal. If you disagree, please articulate what Shaq's huge offensive arsenal is if you are capable of doing so.

Shaq just can't be stopped on the 2/3 moves he has developed over 14 years. Nothing wrong with that, but he certainly does not have the huge offensive arsenal of say, Tim Duncan, or Hakeem. Do you get it now? I'm sorry that subtlety is lost on you, but I knew that was the case anyway.

By the way, speaking of STFU, how did that Antoine Walker argument we had last summer end up? I believe you called him a chemistry killer and stated that he was terrible. As usual, you will skip over responding to this item the way you always do.

oohah


Antoine Walker is not a good ballplayer. Dont let yourself get carried away--without dwayne wade that team isnt very good. i could put a lot of guys in there to do what walker did for that team. the reason they won was Wade and Shaq, everyone else was a role player.
[Edited by - oohah on 06-29-2006 5:48 PM]

RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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6/29/2006  5:52 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


Antoine Walker is not a good ballplayer. Dont let yourself get carried away--without dwayne wade that team isnt very good. i could put a lot of guys in there to do what walker did for that team. the reason they won was Wade and Shaq, everyone else was a role player.

...I thought the NBA was moving towards all skill players at every position?
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oohah
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6/29/2006  5:55 PM
Antoine Walker is not a good ballplayer. Dont let yourself get carried away--without dwayne wade that team isnt very good. i could put a lot of guys in there to do what walker did for that team. the reason they won was Wade and Shaq, everyone else was a role player.

He was absolutely key to that team. Do they not win without Wade? OF course they Don't. Not without Shaq either.

Doesn't mean 'Toine isn't good. He played well, you just cannot admit when you are wrong. By the way, did you realize Walker is a proven winner?

C'mon Briggs--You're better than that...aren't you?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
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6/29/2006  8:18 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:

i guess you know something that the NBA GM's don't BRIGGS, cuz plenty of them passed on your boy Marcus Williams when they had the chance too... Larry Bird passed on him & the Pacers were alot more in need of another PG than we were... so what do you know that these guys don't?

so far all i'm hearing is you claiming this guy Balkman is NBDL talent & that there were no other teams that were going to take him in the 1st round... according to what? Jay Bilas? ESPN? cuz personally i was clueless as to what really went on behind the scenes during draft night, as i'm pretty positive about 99.99% of the rest of this forum were as well.

all i know is Isiah's past draft choices have panned out pretty well considering where he picked & what was available after... if a guy who was taken after Balkman emerges next season as a legitimate sleeper, then you can go off on your rant & be justified.

I cant argue with people who have not seen him or atleast know who he is. You are just talking out of your arse with no basis of the conversation because you dont even know who the player is. I STRONGLY believe VERY VERY strongly believe we couldve DROPPED back into round 2 OR at a MINIMUM picked him 29. I think that a David Noel is a guy who has more than what this kid offers, reminds me a bit of jerome kersey, he has the nba body he has more skills/athletiscm but hes still a 2nd round guy. Maurice Ager well why am I going on because you dont know who the im talking about anyway--you know i listen to people here and on the radio and 98% dont know who these players are--even some of the top tier guys. Either you watch a ton of CBB and you know the players or you dont. I know who this kid is, hes a trevor ariza type player, a second round pick.

how am i the one talking outta my ass on this one when i'm not the one making any kinds of assumptions here? i'm not the one claiming to know anything at all about this kid... you're the one spewing the crap about there being no way in hell this guy woulda been taken by any team in the 1st round... don't pull your attitude on me cuz you can't handle being called out... face it, you have no sources... no offense, but if there's anyone talking outta there ass on this one, it's you... anyway, i'm sure we're all gonna have to deal w/about 20,000 of your threads all year long about who we coulda got w/the 20th pick over Balkman now, aren't we?... can't wait for that.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-29-2006 8:23 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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6/29/2006  10:04 PM
I only try to enter a conversation when I know what Im talking about. I dont make assanine assumptions based on stuff like*since 20 other GMs passed on him* or since Isiah said so it must be true*. Other than the few knick management guys who post here--like isiah and suhr, not many people have seen this kid and Im telling you first hand what he is


he is very much like trevor ariza of the same ilk a hustle player a guy who tries to get in passing lanes a scrapper a defender. a little smallish for the pro 3 not as good a prospect as ariza imho. i dont think hes a 1st round prospect and i susp[ect very HIGHLY that he was NOT on the other 29 teams first round boards. i think there are a few high quality skill players we passed on. To me, I take the skill players first and if I really like a scrapper--move down a few pegs and pick up an asset or cash--but his team doesnt operate like that. Would have have liked to walk out with any of Brown Williams or Ager? yes absolutely i dont care who is above them--i dont think we are going anywhere fast with marbury etc.. anyway. i think this franchise is caught in a terrible place right now







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TMS
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6/29/2006  10:26 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I only try to enter a conversation when I know what Im talking about. I dont make assanine assumptions based on stuff like*since 20 other GMs passed on him* or since Isiah said so it must be true*. Other than the few knick management guys who post here--like isiah and suhr, not many people have seen this kid and Im telling you first hand what he is

i haven't made a single assumption about Balkman other than to say i'm keeping an open mind & waiting til i see him actually play before i form an opinion... i never even said Isiah was right or wrong on the Phoenix situation because i just don't know... & unless you have some sources of your own, neither do you.

btw, you can save your personal insults for someone who gives a sh!t about what you think of them BRIGGS... you're just about the biggest overly reactionary wishy washy spin doctor on these forums, & that's saying alot.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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6/29/2006  10:49 PM
Channing Frye was a bust after 3 summer league games! Balkman's a bust before 1 summer league game! Isiah's next pick will be a bust before he enters the draft or finishes high school, somehow!
nixluva
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6/29/2006  10:56 PM
Ariza was nice, but I don't recall him leading his team to NIT wins or being an MVP of the NIT or being the unofficial MVP of the Orlando Camp. Not that these things in and of themselves mean anything, except that they show Balkman's level of effort and hustle. He's a difference maker. I liked Ariza but he was a guy who had flahes, but not a consistent effect on the game. It seems that Balkman has a chance to be an infectious energy player for this team and we need that. Ariza also wasn't a good man defender. Balkman seems to have more of a chance to do that as well as being a good team defender like Ariza looked to one day be.
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6/29/2006  11:49 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by oohah:
Pheonix named the players they liked. The coach said straight out they didnt like guys who couldnt shoot because of the system they play. Name ONE 1 player on Phoenix who plays in the core who doesnt have a huge offensive arsenal? none.

Raja Bell
Kurt Thomas
Amare Stoudamire
Shawn Marion

None of these guys can be accused of having huge offensive arsenals.

oohah

Dude, come on, you did not just put Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion on that list.

[Edited by - s3231 on 06-29-2006 4:46 PM]

I'm going to assume he was joking.

You were joking, right?

I hope he was



No, I was not kidding. They don't have huge offensive repertoires. Marion is a decent shooter and he has a nice flip shot. He gets most of his offense off of transition plays and layup/dunk opportunities created by defensive imbalances or by scrapping. That is why Marion is most noted for rebounding and scoring with no plays run for him.

Amare Stoudamire get the bulk of his points by going over and through the other guys. He has an okay shot. He reportedly added some polish to his offensive game over the summer, but he could not play this year so who knows?

Solace, s32332, let me ask you this: Shaq has scored a lot of points, does he have a huge offensive arsenal?

oohah

I think you're taking "huge offensive arsenal" to mean "creative scorer", which I don't think was the intent of the statement. I think Marion, Shaq and Amare are very good scorers who can do a lot of things. Maybe not the most creative things, but they can certainly put up a lot of points.

Ooha...Marion scores in a variety if ways without a single play being called for him, There was talk that Amare had extended his aresenal to include a 3 point shot(I posted the artcle way back and it is too late for me to find it...take my word, he was working on that) and he was extremely quick. KT is not a great scorer but he can score and I bet his scoring average goes up a few points from the time he was here because picking and popping with Nash, all he needs is that 15 footer...Bell is not a "scorer" but he can score especially in PHX's offense.

PHX's offense is tailor made for limited, but competent, offensive guys to score. Balkman may or may not be able to dribble, has no outside shot and no post game....he sounds like he has defensive specialist all over him. If we picked this guy at 35, I am happy. We picked the guy at 20 over guys with infinately more talent(even putting WIlliams aside.....PJ Tucker? Shannon Brown? Ager?-even if you just wanted to concentrate on defense...Boone? Bobby Jones? Noel? alot of guys with comparable defensive abilities and better offensive upside.)
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BRIGGS
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6/30/2006  12:15 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Ariza was nice, but I don't recall him leading his team to NIT wins or being an MVP of the NIT or being the unofficial MVP of the Orlando Camp. Not that these things in and of themselves mean anything, except that they show Balkman's level of effort and hustle. He's a difference maker. I liked Ariza but he was a guy who had flahes, but not a consistent effect on the game. It seems that Balkman has a chance to be an infectious energy player for this team and we need that. Ariza also wasn't a good man defender. Balkman seems to have more of a chance to do that as well as being a good team defender like Ariza looked to one day be.

Ariza was a freshmen this kid is a junior. Ariza couldve turned into a lottery pick if he stayed in school and developed. Ariza is still something like a year 1 + younger than this guy. It was going to take Ariza 3 full years to develop when we drafted him, imho. I have no problem with the pick if its 40. But very much like the curry trade and a lot of other things I believe we dont think before we act. I would bet a G that his kid had a promise from the knicks weeks before he was picked. this was edged in stone isiah wouldve drafted him 13
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BRIGGS
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6/30/2006  12:22 AM

------>btw, you can save your personal insults for someone who gives a sh!t about what you think of them BRIGGS... you're just about the biggest overly reactionary wishy washy spin doctor on these forums, & that's saying alot.
[/quote]



actually i wasnt even talking directly to anyone in his thread until you came out and made some kind of ignaramous remark towards me for no reason. I guess when you have nothing to contribute on content you have to slam someone to get into the conversation. whatever my friend.
RIP Crushalot😞
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