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BRIGGS wanted to send Lee to CHI for lottery protection this year.
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nyk4ever
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6/28/2006  2:57 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

This is really pathetic. Can we have a good thread nowadays w/o Larry Brown being brought up? It's getting quite tiring so I am going to go right back to Curry and hope people follow:

It doesn't matter if people know or don't know if Isiah could have offered Lee. The point is that Isiah got himself played big time by giving up, potentially, 2 top 3 picks, b/c we could be that bad next year too! Is Eddie Curry better than Greg Oden?? It's next year where Isiah truely got hustled, b/c of his poor negotiating skills. Has nothing to do with the media reports. Isiah fell in love with a player who was famous for always being lazy, overweight and unmotivated (And yes, he has the skill set and agility to be an amazing center) and gave up A LOT, and not just the 2 picks. The expiring contract of TT (Who I hated, but I believe he helped Phoenix big time, regardless) and Sweetney who did a nice job making a name for himself this past playoff.

Good post Allan.
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djsunyc
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6/28/2006  2:57 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

This is really pathetic. Can we have a good thread nowadays w/o Larry Brown being brought up? It's getting quite tiring so I am going to go right back to Curry and hope people follow:

It doesn't matter if people know or don't know if Isiah could have offered Lee. The point is that Isiah got himself played big time by giving up, potentially, 2 top 3 picks, b/c we could be that bad next year too! Is Eddie Curry better than Greg Oden?? It's next year where Isiah truely got hustled, b/c of his poor negotiating skills. Has nothing to do with the media reports. Isiah fell in love with a player who was famous for always being lazy, overweight and unmotivated (And yes, he has the skill set and agility to be an amazing center) and gave up A LOT, and not just the 2 picks. The expiring contract of TT (Who I hated, but I believe he helped Phoenix big time, regardless) and Sweetney who did a nice job making a name for himself this past playoff.

larry brown > allanfan20
martin
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6/28/2006  3:00 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Like I said who CARES what LB asked for--its the GMs and owner final decision whether to commit the $$$ there is NO other explanation -the owner and GM take responsibility there--thats what management is.

that's valid. I do think Isiah was trying to work with Brown up to a certain point. at the end of the day, he's responsible for all the moves though. Dolan having him coach next season could almost be punishment - you better believe it isn't going to be fun for Isiah to answer NY media questions EVERY night. And if Zeke fails, his reputation is ruined and his career is over.

The onus has been put in the right place now.

I happen to think Isiah will do a good job and will be able to have this roster play a more suitable style and I think guys like Marbury and Curry will be out to prove something. But I could be insane.

I think it's possible things turn out okay - I think guys like Marbury and Curry will want to step up for Isiah, and that could make a big difference.

thing is... who had Marbury or Curry EVERY stepped up for. Man, I hope they do though.
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Allanfan20
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6/28/2006  3:05 PM
Isiah Thomas > Stephon Marbury > some gum I stepped on at work > James Dolan > the Knicks 23-59 record > George Bush > djsunyc
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BasketballJones
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6/28/2006  3:06 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Like I said who CARES what LB asked for--its the GMs and owner final decision whether to commit the $$$ there is NO other explanation -the owner and GM take responsibility there--thats what management is.

that's valid. I do think Isiah was trying to work with Brown up to a certain point. at the end of the day, he's responsible for all the moves though. Dolan having him coach next season could almost be punishment - you better believe it isn't going to be fun for Isiah to answer NY media questions EVERY night. And if Zeke fails, his reputation is ruined and his career is over.

The onus has been put in the right place now.

I happen to think Isiah will do a good job and will be able to have this roster play a more suitable style and I think guys like Marbury and Curry will be out to prove something. But I could be insane.

I think it's possible things turn out okay - I think guys like Marbury and Curry will want to step up for Isiah, and that could make a big difference.

thing is... who had Marbury or Curry EVERY stepped up for. Man, I hope they do though.

Well, Isiah's put his career on the line for them, so I just think they will.
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djsunyc
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6/28/2006  3:07 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Like I said who CARES what LB asked for--its the GMs and owner final decision whether to commit the $$$ there is NO other explanation -the owner and GM take responsibility there--thats what management is.

that's valid. I do think Isiah was trying to work with Brown up to a certain point. at the end of the day, he's responsible for all the moves though. Dolan having him coach next season could almost be punishment - you better believe it isn't going to be fun for Isiah to answer NY media questions EVERY night. And if Zeke fails, his reputation is ruined and his career is over.

The onus has been put in the right place now.

I happen to think Isiah will do a good job and will be able to have this roster play a more suitable style and I think guys like Marbury and Curry will be out to prove something. But I could be insane.

I think it's possible things turn out okay - I think guys like Marbury and Curry will want to step up for Isiah, and that could make a big difference.

now why do you have to go and post something like that for?
BasketballJones
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6/28/2006  3:08 PM
I guess we need a "Manup - who liked the Curry trade" thread. I confess I liked the trade, and I remember being glad that Isiah hadn't included Lee. (I know - we don't even know if that was an option.)

How many people thought it was a bad trade at the time? (Other than BRIGGs).
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Allanfan20
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6/28/2006  3:09 PM
Me
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nyk4ever
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6/28/2006  3:11 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I guess we need a "Manup - who liked the Curry trade" thread. I confess I liked the trade, and I remember being glad that Isiah hadn't included Lee. (I know - we don't even know if that was an option.)

How many people thought it was a bad trade at the time? (Other than BRIGGs).

I argued with Briggs about letting go of the idea that Isiah didn't protect the picks becuase I think that was really stupid that he didn't but Briggs wouldn't let go(even though he was right) but I liked the idea of getting Curry. I still think Curry is going to be good, I'm just tired of watching uninspired players for the Knicks and Curry is definately uninspired.
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Anji
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6/28/2006  3:18 PM
THe curry Deal isn't even complete yet. People are too short sided. One year is "X will give us atlease 10 more wins from last season" now it is "Without X we will lose 10 more games then last season".
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Solace
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6/28/2006  3:24 PM
Without a doubt we walked into this trade with no protection. We bet it all on red and our number didn't come. That's the frustration -- why didn't we hedge our bet a bit?

Gay, Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Bargani, etc... one of these guys would've been a Knick.

Oh well. It is what it is.
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codeunknown
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6/28/2006  3:30 PM
Lets make one thing clear. Getting Curry was a decent idea. But, not at the price we paid. Once again, the GM's job is to insure investments in trades, contract signings etc. regardless if he thought we were winning the championship next year. Isiah knows that if we end up giving 2 successive top-3 picks, it wasn't worth Curry but instead of compensating with other tangible pieces (Lee or whatever else) Isiah tried to be a high-roller and comodify risk. Horrendous decision. Isiah failed here. Bottom line. He failed and it will cost us big time.
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NYKBocker
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6/28/2006  3:38 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Me

Me too! Hated that trade but would gladly eat some crow if Curry can turn it around.
rvhoss
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6/28/2006  4:02 PM
I honestly feel that only 3 people thought we would have a top 3 lotto pick this year.

LB assured it to be so.
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martin
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6/28/2006  4:09 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I honestly feel that only 3 people thought we would have a top 3 lotto pick this year.

LB assured it to be so.

29 out of 30 GMs put lotto protection on their picks. The Knicks don't. Apparently. That's the people who should worry about it.
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rvhoss
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6/28/2006  4:20 PM
but there is nothing to protect if we are not going to have anything to protect and we knew curry was better than anybody coming out.

I remember the trade well because I had no idea who curry was (i don't pay attention to other teams players) and I remember briggs saying it was nuts and MAYBE one other poster agreeing with him, everyone else was like who cares, we got Curry.

That's why I think it's kind of weak to act like the papers and start to pile on every "mistake" while isiah is full pile onable.

curry is better than everyone in this year's draft, everyone agrees on that.

LB lost more games than he should have, or, he could have won atleast 10 more. That's debatable, but still a logical argument.

We'll know for sure after this season, but to say that we should have protected something that should not have needed protecting (we came off a 33 win season without curry and gave up one of the reasons we only won 33 games in TT) is kind of weak IMHO.

If anything, we should have won 5 more games and that would have been nowhere near the 2nd pick.

Going into the season, NOBODY can honestly say we were going to be in the top 3 picks...I think the consensus going into the season was teh same as teh previous year, we win the atlantic.

So, that's why I'm saying it's weak.

Hind sight is 20/20, and to keep piling on is sour grapes.

Curry has shown major flashes of being waaay better than Sweetney, and a matter of fact, IMHO he was better, and we added three solid rookies and Q Rich and you are saying we expected to be in the top 3 this year?

If that is what you are saying, then you should be GM of a team in the NBA asap.

BUT IMHO, Briggs was teh only one taht called it at the time.

So, if this thread is a shout out to briggs, then good thread, but if it's another, "i'm pissed they fired brown, so I'm going to bash isiah like islesfan does until we win the championship" than this is a weak thread and you ar crying over spilled milk.

Like I said, I can't wait to see the mot man up trade come back to the to of the thread.
And that trade still is on the table as being a benefit to the knicks.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 06-28-2006 10:22 PM]
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martin
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6/28/2006  4:30 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

but there is nothing to protect if we are not going to have anything to protect and we knew curry was better than anybody coming out.

I remember the trade well because I had no idea who curry was (i don't pay attention to other teams players) and I remember briggs saying it was nuts and MAYBE one other poster agreeing with him, everyone else was like who cares, we got Curry.

That's why I think it's kind of weak to act like the papers and start to pile on every "mistake" while isiah is full pile onable.

curry is better than everyone in this year's draft, everyone agrees on that.

LB lost more games than he should have, or, he could have won atleast 10 more. That's debatable, but still a logical argument.

We'll know for sure after this season, but to say that we should have protected something that should not have needed protecting (we came off a 33 win season without curry and gave up one of the reasons we only won 33 games in TT) is kind of weak IMHO.

If anything, we should have won 5 more games and that would have been nowhere near the 2nd pick.

Going into the season, NOBODY can honestly say we were going to be in the top 3 picks...I think the consensus going into the season was teh same as teh previous year, we win the atlantic.

So, that's why I'm saying it's weak.

Hind sight is 20/20, and to keep piling on is sour grapes.

Curry has shown major flashes of being waaay better than Sweetney, and a matter of fact, IMHO he was better, and we added three solid rookies and Q Rich and you are saying we expected to be in the top 3 this year?

If that is what you are saying, then you should be GM of a team in the NBA asap.

BUT IMHO, Briggs was teh only one taht called it at the time.

So, if this thread is a shout out to briggs, then good thread, but if it's another, "i'm pissed they fired brown, so I'm going to bash isiah like islesfan does until we win the championship" than this is a weak thread and you ar crying over spilled milk.

Like I said, I can't wait to see the mot man up trade come back to the to of the thread.
And that trade still is on the table as being a benefit to the knicks.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 06-28-2006 10:22 PM]

The Spurs have Tim Duncan. Why do they protect their picks?
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rvhoss
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6/28/2006  4:34 PM
point taken.
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franco12
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6/28/2006  4:44 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I guess we need a "Manup - who liked the Curry trade" thread. I confess I liked the trade, and I remember being glad that Isiah hadn't included Lee. (I know - we don't even know if that was an option.)

How many people thought it was a bad trade at the time? (Other than BRIGGs).

I didn't want to make the trade and accepted it with reservations.
codeunknown
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6/28/2006  4:53 PM
Posted by rvhoss:


We'll know for sure after this season, but to say that we should have protected something that should not have needed protecting (we came off a 33 win season without curry and gave up one of the reasons we only won 33 games in TT) is kind of weak IMHO.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 06-28-2006 10:22 PM]


Thats the most backwards philosophy I've ever heard. Should not have needed protecting? Risk is assessed independently by both trade parties, the Knicks and Bulls. Ask yourself why Chicago's GM cared so much that the pick not be protected? If it was such a foregone conclusion that we were better than a lottery pick, it shouldn't matter to anyone if the protection lies at 3, 5, 10 or not at all. There was definite and OBVIOUS risk - new coach, new starters, health risk + risk of ****ty play with Curry, injury risk, Jerome James risk, Crawford risk. Think about it, nothing we have is proven. Paxson gambled well on that risk. Isiah failed.

Again, Isiah can yet succeed as coach this year. But, lets be fair when evaluating his performance. That trade was a failure.
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BRIGGS wanted to send Lee to CHI for lottery protection this year.
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