Posted by Anji:

Honestly, I'm not for getting Al because I think it straps future moves. Right now we don't want to add any Point Guards, Shooting Guards,PowerForwards and Centers because of players under contracts at those postions. If we are going to trade Francis/Marbury/Q/Rose/Talor/James, don't we need to stick the players we get back some where???? I would rather just see who we can add in the draft right now and go from there.

But Al Harrington isn't a bad pickup at all.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TMS:

if there's a deal w/ATL involving Al Harrington, i would hope it would be in exchange for Steve Francis... in that case i'd have no problem at all giving up both picks, since we'd only be exchanging large contracts & not adding any extra salary to the payroll... since ATL's under the cap, we don't need to worry about matching up the cap dollars.

anyone who'd be against a deal like that is just opposed to getting Al Harrington period, no matter what the cost... i think the guy would be a great SF on this team for many years to come myself.

There is no way that Atlanta takes Francis. I dont want Al Harrington-I dont want him period--why cant WE get Vince Carter or a player like that if we are giving up two draft picks and a LOT of money? Al Harrington is a full tier below that talent level imho and a bad fit. Thats the cost of what the Nets paid for Vince and Im not willing to get a numbers guy who gives up more than he takes. Awesome example of how his presence would put pressue on BAD frontcourt defenders. We would have a C who cant guard a PF who cant guard and a SF who cant guard with a terrible D backcourt! If I want that give me vince carter or someone like that! Give me RJ Ill take RJ but no tweener like Al

let's review what Vince Carter was when the Nets made that trade for him... he was coming off consecutive injury plagued seasons, he had teammates, fans, head coach & upper management doubting his commitment to winning, & he had a reputation for being a soft player w/loads of physical ability, but no heart... he went to NJ & turned his career around, a BIG part of which has to do w/playing alongside a PG like Jason Kidd (having a guy like RJ playing next to him didn't hurt either)... is Al Harrington on Vince's level? of course not... but don't try & make it out to seem as if Vince was coming off his career season & was a guarantee to revamp that Nets roster after KMart left... that wasn't the case... there were plenty of Knicks fans on this forum even who wanted no part of Vince & ended up backtracking on that after they saw him go back to his old Allstar form. (I personally was on record several times saying the Knicks would be crazy to pass up a deal for Vince, but that's besides the point)

if you can come up w/a better player than Harrington that the Knicks can REALISTICALLY get right now for those picks, I'm all for discussing it, but using Vince & RJ as players you want to get is being unreasonable at this point because neither of them are on the trading block.

one can even argue that Isiah tried to make a similar Vince type trade when he made the deal for Steve Francis... he gave up a limited amount of resources to take on the longterm contract of a maxed out former Allstar on the chance that he'd be able to revamp his career in NY... it failed, but that's the same type of reasoning Rod Thorn had when he made that Vince Carter trade... sometimes you roll the dice & it comes up craps... sometimes it comes up 7's.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-26-2006 10:26 PM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by TMS:

if there's a deal w/ATL involving Al Harrington, i would hope it would be in exchange for Steve Francis... in that case i'd have no problem at all giving up both picks, since we'd only be exchanging large contracts & not adding any extra salary to the payroll... since ATL's under the cap, we don't need to worry about matching up the cap dollars.

anyone who'd be against a deal like that is just opposed to getting Al Harrington period, no matter what the cost... i think the guy would be a great SF on this team for many years to come myself.

There is no way that Atlanta takes Francis. I dont want Al Harrington-I dont want him period--why cant WE get Vince Carter or a player like that if we are giving up two draft picks and a LOT of money? Al Harrington is a full tier below that talent level imho and a bad fit. Thats the cost of what the Nets paid for Vince and Im not willing to get a numbers guy who gives up more than he takes. Awesome example of how his presence would put pressue on BAD frontcourt defenders. We would have a C who cant guard a PF who cant guard and a SF who cant guard with a terrible D backcourt! If I want that give me vince carter or someone like that! Give me RJ Ill take RJ but no tweener like Al

let's review what Vince Carter was when the Nets made that trade for him... he was coming off consecutive injury plagued seasons, he had teammates, fans, head coach & upper management doubting his commitment to winning, & he had a reputation for being a soft player w/loads of physical ability, but no heart... he went to NJ & turned his career around, a BIG part of which has to do w/playing alongside a PG like Jason Kidd (having a guy like RJ playing next to him didn't hurt either)... is Al Harrington on Vince's level? of course not... but don't try & make it out to seem as if Vince was coming off his career season & was a guarantee to revamp that Nets roster after KMart left... that wasn't the case... there were plenty of Knicks fans on this forum even who wanted no part of Vince & ended up backtracking on that after they saw him go back to his old Allstar form. (I personally was on record several times saying the Knicks would be crazy to pass up a deal for Vince, but that's besides the point)

if you can come up w/a better player than Harrington that the Knicks can REALISTICALLY get right now for those picks, I'm all for discussing it, but using Vince & RJ as players you want to get is being unreasonable at this point because neither of them are on the trading block.

one can even argue that Isiah tried to make a similar Vince type trade when he made the deal for Steve Francis... he gave up a limited amount of resources to take on the longterm contract of a maxed out former Allstar on the chance that he'd be able to revamp his career in NY... it failed, but that's the same type of reasoning Rod Thorn had when he made that Vince Carter trade... sometimes you roll the dice & it comes up craps... sometimes it comes up 7's.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-26-2006 10:26 PM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by BRIGGS:

this is what has hurt the knicks. al harrington imho is not a player who im interested SPENDING another 60mm+++ on go find a Nocioni who cost the bulls 10mm for 3 years and gives you MORE both ways than harrington. offering al harrington 60-70 mm trying to bid over every team is why this team scks.

the Knicks have had terrible luck & made some terrible decisions regarding personnel, there's no denying that... Al Harrington could turn out to be Quentin Richardson, or he can turn out to be a God send... you just don't know until you make the deal... i agree w/u i'd much rather find an Andres Nocioni type player on the cheap, but i can't think of anyone that will give you his type of production for the amount of dollars he's making that's on the trading block right now.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by McK1:

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by McK1:

Al is too slow to play the 3 full time

I think he can if he can split 2/5 time at PF and 3/5 at small forward it will be ideal.

so where do guys like Lee play?

its stupid to even think about adding an Al at this point. I can't believe dolan would allow Isiah to add more longterm payroll. if it doesn't work NY wil have 80 mill commiteed to the 08/09 cap and 9 guaranteed contracts. what sensible person would want to come here and be in charge of this roster post-Isiah.

I have said this before and I still believe it....My BIGGEST fear with what Isiah was doing was he was going to acquire too much young talent. There is no chance we are going to develop it all. I mean look at our roster...

Craw, Nate, Lee, Frye, Butler, Woods, Curry plus another 2 picks this year-that is 9 guys that you can say are actually worthy of developing. That amount of players is a normal contending teams full rotation. You take these 9 guys add Marbury, Franics, and Rose and we are too deep and some of these guys aren't gonna get time. Now adding Harringotn takes another spot ON the position we have the most player depth-Even if we gave up BOTH picks!

I tend to look at this team as two parts

A. the crppy overpaid vets

B the young underbelly


if you look at the young underbelly

C-Curry Butler
F Frye Lee
F Woods?
G Craw
G Nate? thats no where near nine deep we dont need more expensive position players who need PT --Im in favor of pairing the picks to move up for one if we want to make a move. We have Jalen Rose for another year-we have Woods? and we can draft that position--Lee also plays there.


Look at all of the twenty point scorers we have--we need another who doesnt bring intangibles?

My whole point is I would like this team to start to condense these assets into greater assets. If I looked at the young underbelly we have this is what I see:

Frye-18-20 points, 8 rebounds....average to solid defense in the post....3 point range. A poor man's Rasheed Wallace w/o the D.

Lee-A PF version of Shane Battier w/o the 3 pt accuracy.

Nate-Earl Boykins or Speedy Claxton. At absolute best, Ben Gordon without the size (and that is not saying alot!)

Butler-Comparable to Eddie Griffin except not the shotblocker Eddie is due to a lower atheletcism. More powerful on the blocks than Eddie. A hustle player who can score in a little. Maybe a poor man's Oakley without the floor burns.

Woods-To me he has the MOST potential out of all of the youth we have. He has size, quickness, hops. I see the POTENTIAL for him to be a dominant player. Do I think he will-no. I can see 15, 6, a couple of assists, a couple of steals and a block. I just have the same feeling about himI have about alot of other guys alot like him (Travis Outlaw, pick an ATL Hawks swingman).

Craw-He can be a possible 20 point scorer off the bench. He is best suited, to me, as a swing guard off the bench. He can chuck a little too much from the 2 guard spot and him having to initiate the offense limits that from the point position. I don't think that his instincts allow him to play the PG full time (because his instincts tell him to shoot).

Curry-He just doesn't want to play D. He can be a dominant center in the L, but he doesn't want to rebound. I think he'll can be a dominant scorer, but even if he does develop his rebounding will be average at best. I can see him scoring 22-24 per game and grabbing about 7-8 rebounds per. Maybe Yao type numbers.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by djsunyc:

joe - teams like atlanta have been perpetual lottery teams. they keep getting lotto picks. they keep drafting young kids with potential yet they are right back in the lotto. why? b/c the young kids they draft are not complimentary. and they don't have good enough vets to play ball now while developing those young kids. i fear the situation is very similar here. we are all pumped up about craw, nate, lee, frye, curry and butler. but are they better than childress, smith, salim, joe, and marvin? we need to see how this plays out but "younger and more athletic" is not necessarily a plan.

Atlanta's problem is drafting the same player at the same position like 4 times in a row. Had they traded down and drafted Chris Paul last year, I think their future would be much brighter. It was a perfect oppurtunity that they completely ruined for themselves.