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Knick fans still mourning the loss of Ariza...
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oohah
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6/14/2006  5:51 PM
I expected him to be able to dribble 5 feet with his head up and not turning it over. I expected to see some kind of improvement on his jump shot. I expected him to have some kind of clue when it comes to playing in a half court offense. I expected him to have a much better attitude than he did, like he had already had things coming to him just because the fans liked him.

While his skills are still raw, I don't think they are quite as bad as you make them out to be. Many of the players looked lost out there. He looked much-improved in those categories when he played the Knicks did he not?

Please give me an example of his bad attitude. The only thing thing folks seem to be talking about were his 'confused' comments. That sounds honest.
I think you're holding him to a power forward/center level standard in terms of his basic skills.

No, I am holding him to an admittedly low level, and considering he was drafted number 43 after one year of college, I think that is realistic. Raw players don't become finely-skilled players in one year, or even two.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
AUTOADVERT
tkf
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6/14/2006  7:12 PM
Posted by Anji:
Posted by holfresh:





What does playing in a summer league have to do with his development...Not one damn thing...Magic and Bird worked out on their own as another poster tried to implicate him...You guys just nitpick at the silliest things..Who cares if he shows up for summer camp...It has absolutely no bearing oh his performance during the season...People don't learn to dribble in summer camp...


Of course. Trevor isn't a millionare and he may want to stay with his training. Who says him working out with his trainers, where he most likely worked out his whole basketball life, with his coaches isn't what is best for him???? Or it wouldn't make him better, then flying to where ever Orlandos SL is and staying in a hotels for a month.


Every year in the NFL the Miami Hurricane players skip mini camps to go down to Miami to workout at the U, Shocky and Vilma don't care about getting better???? GTFOH. It's not either he feels he has nothing to work on or he goes to summer league.




[Edited by - Anji on 06-14-2006 3:19 PM]

[Edited by - Anji on 06-14-2006 3:19 PM]

vilma, was defensive rookie of the year, and best defensive player on his team, next to abraham and he was a rookie, he was the leaderof the defense, this guy game was polished.

Shockey was a complete player at TE...

Trevor was a one year college player, who had more holes in his game than a pair of old underware... He needs summerleague..

Big difference..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
simrud
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6/14/2006  7:42 PM
Dude averaged 4 pts and 4rbds for a terrible team. I can't believe we are talking about this like it’s the end of the world.

All you IT supporters are a bunch of twofaced hypocrites, when somebody brings up Mo Taylor rand JJ you say neither one of those moves really makes a difference. But you all jump on a minor player trade to prove your point.

Worthless discussion.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
rvhoss
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6/14/2006  8:56 PM
go get your shine box.
all kool aid all the time.
Nalod
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6/14/2006  11:15 PM
Reezy got a contract? Reezy is not in a position to turn down if a team wants him there.

Before we jump to conclusions, maybe he wants a deal first. Maybe he has other chances with other teams if not signed.
Rich
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6/14/2006  11:16 PM
It's the same mentality that caused him to leave UCLA too early.
fishmike
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6/15/2006  7:24 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

um, players heading into their third year don't have to attend summer league. Mike Sweetney, among others, refused to take part in summer league in the same situation.

but, yeah, you guys are right, giving away Ariza for Stevie Disenfranchised was a great move, especially when everyone admits we have a guard glut and need perimeter defenders and a small forward. Larry Brown is such a genius! I'm really glad he was so right about Ariza and he really used Francis once he got him!

by the way, the Magic finished 16-4 with Ariza playing 21mpg.
Larry's not the GM. Isiah makes all the trades

Right, remember when Isiah called Ariza delusional and stopped allowing Larry to play him. And Isiah asked Larry for Francis and then didn't play him or define a role for him. Sorry, I forgot that Isiah is the scapegoat and Larry is teflon because no one has ever fired him before. My bad.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-14-2006 1:04 PM]
Larry gave Ariza a lot of playing time. More than he got last year. I dont know what Ariza did or said to prompt those comments from Brown but you cant say Ariza didnt get a chance here with Brown. As for trades it doesnt matter what Larry says, Isiah has the final say on who comes and goes and whats best for his team. Thats the GMs job. Larry screwed his area up plenty, no need to lump Isiah's follies on him as well.

Also you can spout Larry Larry Larry till the cows come home but the Francis trade was SOOO consistant with every move Isiah has made BEFORE LArry got here I'm sure he didnt need a lot of convincing. Lets see... expiring contract for an overpaid disgruntled scorer that his current team didnt want. No... Isiah would never makde a trade like unless he was really pressured into doing it right?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
PresIke
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6/15/2006  7:49 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

um, players heading into their third year don't have to attend summer league. Mike Sweetney, among others, refused to take part in summer league in the same situation.

but, yeah, you guys are right, giving away Ariza for Stevie Disenfranchised was a great move, especially when everyone admits we have a guard glut and need perimeter defenders and a small forward. Larry Brown is such a genius! I'm really glad he was so right about Ariza and he really used Francis once he got him!

by the way, the Magic finished 16-4 with Ariza playing 21mpg.

I haven['t read the rest of the posts -- so maybe someone else has said this -- but crzy, the issue was never that most fans were upset we traded Ariza for Steve Francis. When Berman says "mourning" that has to mean that Knick fans were actually upset about trading Ariza, not that we didn't need Francis. Thus far the trade hasn't helped us, and I admit I was one to say go for Stevie (I'm hoping next year we see better play, or any play for that matter), but was Ariza really showing much improvement?

In hindsight Ariza's potential as a defender may have been of use to us, and we all know he showed flashes but he did not show improvement this past season, and maybe even regressed (although it seemed like several players regressed last season). I really don't remember many fans bemoaning the fact that we traded Ariza. What bothered certain fans was that the Knicks took on Francis' contract, his potential attitude problem, and his seeming redundancy with Marbury. Being mad at getting a player like Francis is not the same as "mourning the loss of Ariza."

It's semantics, but Berman's spin on the way I believe many Knick fans saw/see the trade is revisionist history for sure...

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Bippity10
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6/15/2006  10:00 AM
Haven't been around for a while. I just got back from a therapy session. We talked a lot about Trevor ARiza
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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6/15/2006  10:02 AM
I liked Trevor a lot. I have no problem with how little/much he's progressed. My problem was with a 19/20 year old kid with no handle or jumpshot questioning a hall of fame coach. Twenty years ago that kid would have been happy to be alive, let alone on an NBA roster. Now they are demanding minutes and complaining about roles. It's lunacy. That entitled attitude will hurt.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 06-15-2006 10:03 AM]
I just hope that people will like me
Allanfan20
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6/15/2006  11:29 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Haven't been around for a while. I just got back from a therapy session. We talked a lot about Trevor ARiza

Just remember Bip, take your meds every afternoon at 2 DURING lunch.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bippity10
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6/15/2006  12:55 PM
Thanks for the advice Allanfan. I'm thinking of asking the doc to up my dosage. The pain of losing Trevor is too immense to handle medication free. What keeps me going is knowing that I am not alone in my pain

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 06-15-2006 12:56 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
crzymdups
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6/15/2006  2:06 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I liked Trevor a lot. I have no problem with how little/much he's progressed. My problem was with a 19/20 year old kid with no handle or jumpshot questioning a hall of fame coach. Twenty years ago that kid would have been happy to be alive, let alone on an NBA roster. Now they are demanding minutes and complaining about roles. It's lunacy. That entitled attitude will hurt.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 06-15-2006 10:03 AM]


I don't know about an entitled attitude - the issue is that Ariza went from starting for Brown to being benched and he never got an explanation from Brown. He complained about it and Brown called him delusional - and not just once, but he repeated the phrase several times over a few days, all the while Ariza said Brown never spoke to him and he asked to speak with Brown and Brown refused. Maybe a decent coach would have explained to Ariza how he could have gotten back on the floor and not gotten into a d!ck-swinging contest with him.

Also, funny that Brown refused to speak to Ariza because Brown felt like Ariza should have known what he was doing wrong. Here we are five months later and Brown asks to speak to Dolan and Dolan refuses and Brown pouts in the media and says he's a deadman walking. Here's a question - how is what Brown is doing any better than what Ariza did? Both guys just wanted to know where they stood - Ariza is labeled immature and delusional, Brown is made a martyr. Kinda makes Brown a big fat hypocrite doesn't it? Or maybe he doesn't like to be treated the way he treats others. My hope is that somewhere, Trevor is smiling. I know I am.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-15-2006 2:07 PM]
¿ △ ?
Nalod
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6/15/2006  2:10 PM
No I can't forget this evening
Or your face as you were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
You always smile but in your eyes your sorrow shows
Yes, it shows

No I can't forget tomorrow
When I think of all my sorrow
When I had you there but then I let you go
And now it's only fair that I should let you know
What you should know

I can't live
if living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
I can't live
if living is without you
I can't give
I can't give anymore

Well I can't forget this evening
Nor your face as you were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
You always smile but in your eyes your sorrow shows
Yes, it shows

I can't live
if living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
I can't live
if living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
(No I cant live)
(No I cant live)
I cant live
(No I cant live)
(No I cant live)
If living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
Can't live..
oohah
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6/15/2006  2:11 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Bippity10:

I liked Trevor a lot. I have no problem with how little/much he's progressed. My problem was with a 19/20 year old kid with no handle or jumpshot questioning a hall of fame coach. Twenty years ago that kid would have been happy to be alive, let alone on an NBA roster. Now they are demanding minutes and complaining about roles. It's lunacy. That entitled attitude will hurt.

[Edited by - Bippity10 on 06-15-2006 10:03 AM]


I don't know about an entitled attitude - the issue is that Ariza went from starting for Brown to being benched and he never got an explanation from Brown. He complained about it and Brown called him delusional - and not just once, but he repeated the phrase several times over a few days, all the while Ariza said Brown never spoke to him and he asked to speak with Brown and Brown refused. Maybe a decent coach would have explained to Ariza how he could have gotten back on the floor and not gotten into a d!ck-swinging contest with him.

Also, funny that Brown refused to speak to Ariza because Brown felt like Ariza should have known what he was doing wrong. Here we are five months later and Brown asks to speak to Dolan and Dolan refuses and Brown pouts in the media and says he's a deadman walking. Here's a question - how is what Brown is doing any better than what Ariza did? Both guys just wanted to know where they stood - Ariza is labeled immature and delusional, Brown is made a martyr. Kinda makes Brown a big fat hypocrite doesn't it? Or maybe he doesn't like to be treated the way he treats others. My hope is that somewhere, Trevor is smiling. I know I am.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06-15-2006 2:07 PM]



I agree with you crzy. I don't know where all this talk about Ariza's attitude came from. I'm not even sure he complained to the press. I believe the press approached him and he said he was confused, then that was turned into a headline about Ariza being unhappy.

As for Brown doing exactly what Ariza did, and now getting the same treatment he dished out...don't you know that the rules that everyone else have to follow don't apply to LB? He has a track record which makes him exempt.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
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6/15/2006  2:29 PM
"Every other coach has [spoken to him] a number of times," Brown said. "He's just delusional. Things get over fast with me. It's what you do in practice every day. To say he doesn't know what's going on, he's delusional."

Brown questioned the UCLA product's attitude.

"It has nothing to do with how he's playing," he said. "It has nothing to do with basketball. He's just got to grow up a little and understand it's a team and he's got to act like a good teammate.

"Sometimes when they hear it from me, that's just coach," Brown said. "We got five other [coaches] that have visited with him privately. And he heard something pretty specific from me before the game. If he doesn't know, it's because UCLA wasn't a good academic institution."

Brown coached the Bruins from 1979-1981.
oohah
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6/15/2006  2:36 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

"Every other coach has [spoken to him] a number of times," Brown said. "He's just delusional. Things get over fast with me. It's what you do in practice every day. To say he doesn't know what's going on, he's delusional."

Brown questioned the UCLA product's attitude.

"It has nothing to do with how he's playing," he said. "It has nothing to do with basketball. He's just got to grow up a little and understand it's a team and he's got to act like a good teammate.

"Sometimes when they hear it from me, that's just coach," Brown said. "We got five other [coaches] that have visited with him privately. And he heard something pretty specific from me before the game. If he doesn't know, it's because UCLA wasn't a good academic institution."

Brown coached the Bruins from 1979-1981.

I think I get your point blueseats: Brown used insulting language towards Ariza in the press for no reason.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
crzymdups
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6/15/2006  2:40 PM
Also, I'm not going to go digging through old links, but I believe that quote came a few days after all this started and Ariza made it clear in the press that he'd asked to speak with Brown and was refused. Yeah, and nice dig Brown got in there! Way to go Coach, I'm sure it really inspired Ariza to work hard by calling him a delusional idiot! That's really a great way to get through to a 20yr old kid!
¿ △ ?
Nalod
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6/15/2006  2:51 PM
HE went to the press and whined about why he was being demoted and then tried to lay it on that he did not understand.

THEN larry said what he said. The kid crushed himself. Its a tough business. He was backed out of a starting assignment in LA and larry had enough by then.

Why he back out? Reezy said he gets nervous! Thats not cool, professionals don't do that.
holfresh
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6/15/2006  2:58 PM
Posted by Nalod:

No I can't forget this evening
Or your face as you were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
You always smile but in your eyes your sorrow shows
Yes, it shows

No I can't forget tomorrow
When I think of all my sorrow
When I had you there but then I let you go
And now it's only fair that I should let you know
What you should know

I can't live
if living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
I can't live
if living is without you
I can't give
I can't give anymore

Well I can't forget this evening
Nor your face as you were leaving
But I guess that's just the way the story goes
You always smile but in your eyes your sorrow shows
Yes, it shows

I can't live
if living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
I can't live
if living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
(No I cant live)
(No I cant live)
I cant live
(No I cant live)
(No I cant live)
If living is without you
I can't live
I can't give anymore
Can't live..



I think you are jumping the gun a little there Nolad, the ax hasn't fallen on Brown yet, we are still in the humiliation phase.....
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