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why is Marbury exempt from the Houston criticism?
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Bippity10
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6/8/2006  10:27 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TMS:

you really don't get it... the problem i have is not w/the state of the team... that goes squarely on Isiah's shoulders... that's a completely separate topic altogether... no one is BLAMING Steph for the miserable season we had last year... the problem i have w/him is that he continues to be a negative presence in the lockerroom, his constant egomaniacal ways, the ways he alienates teammates & ruins team chemistry, the knocking of heads w/a head coach who knows more about winning than Steph ever has or ever will (though I have said time & time again that LB shares in the blame there as well), his stupidity in making ridiculous comments, his inability to play defense for any appreciable stretch of games, his unwillingness to conform to any system that doesn't cater to him racking up stats, & his general assholish personality when it comes to the game (not talking about his off the court endeavors cuz i know he does participate in some charity events & the like, to which i give him credit for)...

you can spare me the lecture on the state of the Knicks... i watch the games too & i don't put the blame of that embarassing season squarely on Stephon Marbury's shoulders, but he certainly does need to accept his share of accountability, which he never has done.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-08-2006 09:55 AM]

I understand that TMS. But to be real. If Marbury had the same exact personality. But for 15mins of almost every game in the 4th quarter the guy put the team on his back. Hit clutch shots and carried the team winning a lot more games. Would you really care about the other things?? I don't think to many people care though we sometimes fool ourselves into thinking we do. Its about how cappable is Marbury of winning games for us. And he hasn't proven to be cappable of taking over games & winning to many. That is why he is expendable especially given the salary he has. Marbury was the same exact person he was when Pheniox overachieved that yr and won 44games and pushed the Spurs except Marbury put the team on his back and took over games down the stretch. The same reason why a lot of people let Larry Brown slide for being the same "DIVA" that Marbury is. Because in the end Larry Brown can win games. Thats what it comes down to. Thats the part we should probably focus on because in the end. Thats the part we really care about.


It is about winning. And when you are a career loser you better have a good attitude.
I just hope that people will like me
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TMS
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6/9/2006  11:13 AM
no doubt, in the end EVERYTHING is about winning... that goes without saying newyorknewyork... what you're alluding to about Marbury not stepping up in the clutch & putting the team on his back when he needs to is a HUGE part of why i can't stand him as well... i've said time & time again that i think Marbury is afraid to take the big shots down the stretch, & he's always blaming teammates for his own mistakes & attributes any exposed weaknesses in his game on the "system" he's playing in rather than taking that mantle unto himself & working hard to overcome & correct them... this is why i think Marbury is & never will be a "winner"... he just doesn't have the makeup, the character or the will to make himself into one... talent can only carry a person so far in this world... it's the drive to succeed that separates the winners & the losers.
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rvhoss
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6/9/2006  12:43 PM
Houston won a title? I think he got out of the first round maybe twice.
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newyorknewyork
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6/9/2006  12:54 PM
TMS.
Thats also why I feel puting him in position to be the leader and be the one that has to step up and carry a team is putting him in a position of weakness. And ever since he screwed up and got out of Minny. He has been put in a position of weakness. And he kept getting max money, and put in that position because of potential to be able to take over games as he does show flashes. And because he was a sell that could bring in fans. Then after the team maxes him out, makes them the leader, and he fails to win games. Now his teammates/coach/fans/Columnist are criticizng his leadership skills as he is the one the depend on and look to. Truley accepting the blame from others is a leadership quality that you would have to be a leader to be able to handle. But if your not a leader at heart, but put in leadership role. Things like that get overwhelming and you will crack. Then he gets shipped out because he is now making to much money to take a step down from that responsibility. I also think Marbury is as insecure as he called Larry Brown. And those things I was talking about above have to do with it. As he doesn't know how to handle being a leader. Plus the fact that he had a lot of hype comming out of Coney Island to fail and deal with that going to see his people definatly will make someone insecure. Which is probably why he was the worst when he was a lot younger and with the Nets. And when your insecure its easy to be defensive. His arrogance is a coverup of that insecurity. Just like a man who doesn't get a lot of girls or can't get a job. He wants to avoid the depression of thinking how much of a "loser" he is. He even said it himself when explaining his reasoning of calling himself the best PG in the NBA. He said "if I thought to myself what you guys are thinking about. This guy being better than me, or that guy being better than me then I would go crazy". Or something to that effect. I think there is more to that. I think Marbury has gotten down on himself before and probably continues to do so. And has probably questioned himself a couple times. But in order to motivate himself back up he has to be overly confident.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 06-09-2006 12:55 PM]
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newyorknewyork
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6/9/2006  12:54 PM
To me Marbury has never been the type that goes around looking for trouble. He is the one that cracks when the pressure is put on him.

For Marbury to actually start having a successful career. #1 he needs to be moved to SG. #2 He needs to be paid less money. #3 he can't be the leader of the team that his teammates look to carry them. On the court or emotionaly. He got be on a team that already has a talented established player that is the unquestioned leader. 2 would be even better. Relieve him of all the mental troubles. Just let him play basketball(look at tim thomas this season). As a matter of fact it wasn't until Tim Thomas was given max contract based on potential and expected to be one of the leaders in Miluakee after they dumped Big Dog & traded Ray Allen for Payton & then expected to do the same in NY that he turned fugazy. When he didn't have to worry about those things before he was fine. Bippity touched on something before about players given max money and leadership rolse before they prove they could handle that role. Which is a problem. If he(Marbury) didn't have blame shoved down his throat earlier in his career till now. I think he would be more willing to accept blame today. If he wasn't forced to take over games all the time since he got into the league as the teams most talented scorer. I think he would be more comfortable doing so, and would have been able to grow into doing it more so today. There are people who need the pressure to excell. And there are people who need to stay away from pressure to excell.

There would be a lot more growth in Marburys character if that were to happen. And there would have been a lot more growth in Marburys charatcer if those things were to happen earlier in his career.
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TMS
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6/9/2006  1:19 PM
#3 he can't be the leader of the team that his teammates look to carry them. On the court or emotionaly. He got be on a team that already has a talented established player that is the unquestioned leader.

i agree... that's why i say he has to be traded... we don't have that established player that he can take a backseat role to here... he needs to go play next to KG in MIN again... that's the only situation i can see him being successful in... he's not going to realize any success here, because just like you said, his own insecurity will prevent him from humbling himself to the point of buying into a team concept because he feels that everyone in NY expects him to be the "man" on this team... & it's that same insecurity that prevents him from ever taking any blame or being accountable.
There are people who need the pressure to excell. And there are people who need to stay away from pressure to excell.

if he can't handle the pressure cooker of NY, he needs to be sent elsewhere... bottomline... this is not a place that will coddle players making $16 mil a year... that's true in any sport, not just basketball... the old saying goes "if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere"... well, if you can't make it here, you better find another place to try.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-09-2006 1:22 PM]
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newyorknewyork
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6/9/2006  1:41 PM
If you think im writing these things because im expecting him to turn it around here then you have me mistaken. I got no problem with Marbury being traded. I had no problems with Marbury being traded when I first learned how much money he was owed when we made the Marbury trade. I was rooting for him to turn his career around here though. In the place he allways dreamed about playing. I thought it was destiny. I guess I was wrong.
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TMS
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6/9/2006  1:46 PM
no, i wasn't thinking that bro... i'm just trying to explain where i'm coming from & why i feel so strongly about Marbury needing to be shipped outta here as i do for those who may think i'm just hating on the guy for no reason... this dislike i have for Marbury has evolved over the years for many different reasons, all of which i consider to be legitimate & not just a case of me just not liking the guy.
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BasketballJones
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6/9/2006  1:55 PM
Marbury gets criticized way too much around here. Management should support him more, especially when his coach or the media criticize him.

This past year, the coach tried to undermine Marbury's authority and grab power for himself. Dolan and Isiah didn't do a very good job of supporting Marbury.

Just remember, no matter what else happens, Marbury will get his 20&8, and that is all that matters. As long as Marbury gets 20&8 the Knicks will be just fine, win or lose. Marbury is basically all we need - he has shown in the past that he can play "all alone" when necessary.



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newyorknewyork
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6/9/2006  2:05 PM
I allways hold your opinion in high reguard. We go back to MSG boards. I know your not just some hater who just follows everyone elses opinion.

Speaking of holding your opinion in high reguard.


Where do the vietnamese girls that look like this hang out.
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Bippity10
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6/9/2006  2:08 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Marbury gets criticized way too much around here. Management should support him more, especially when his coach or the media criticize him.

This past year, the coach tried to undermine Marbury's authority and grab power for himself. Dolan and Isiah didn't do a very good job of supporting Marbury.

Just remember, no matter what else happens, Marbury will get his 20&8, and that is all that matters. As long as Marbury gets 20&8 the Knicks will be just fine, win or lose. Marbury is basically all we need - he has shown in the past that he can play "all alone" when necessary.


I agree.
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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6/9/2006  2:13 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Marbury gets criticized way too much around here. Management should support him more, especially when his coach or the media criticize him.

This past year, the coach tried to undermine Marbury's authority and grab power for himself. Dolan and Isiah didn't do a very good job of supporting Marbury.

Just remember, no matter what else happens, Marbury will get his 20&8, and that is all that matters. As long as Marbury gets 20&8 the Knicks will be just fine, win or lose. Marbury is basically all we need - he has shown in the past that he can play "all alone" when necessary.


I agree.

me too. i petition we retire the #3 immediately and that all players next season wear a small # 3 on top of their jerseys.
Bippity10
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6/9/2006  2:18 PM
How about have all players wear a big star on their jerseys too.
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TMS
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6/9/2006  2:48 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:


Where do the vietnamese girls that look like this hang out.


that's tila nguyen... she's an import racer model (famous now for having the most hits on her myspace)... she's definitely some nice eye candy, but you can see girls like that hanging out at most of the more popular asian hangouts in LA (Vanguard for example)... they're a dime a dozen... unfortunately, it's gonna cost you a heckuva lot more in wining & dining costs to get with any of them, if you got the game to do it that is.

btw, did you know she's only 4'11"? sorta opens up lots of different possibilities, now don't it? (BAD TMS! BAD! must think baseball... baseball!)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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why is Marbury exempt from the Houston criticism?
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