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Now do you see what I've been saying about Isiah since Day 1?
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joec32033
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5/18/2006  12:22 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by joec32033:

With all the coaching changes Zeke is pulling his year 3 as GM is year one when it comes to judging the players he brought in.

It is impossible to get a grasp on these players because there is no consistency on what is wanted/expected from them becase that is changing as the coach changes.

the one thing we do know is that many of the players brought in here are not worth keeping long term b/c they've quit on coaches, don't play hard all the time, or have conditioning problems. those guys need to go b/c they probably won't help us achieve anything of value anyway.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-18-2006 12:21 AM]

Those players are the vets/stars he bought in...Steph, Francis, Jalen, Mo........I really have a hard time arguing with the youths he brought in.
~You can't run from who you are.~
AUTOADVERT
holfresh
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5/18/2006  12:40 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by joec32033:

With all the coaching changes Zeke is pulling his year 3 as GM is year one when it comes to judging the players he brought in.

It is impossible to get a grasp on these players because there is no consistency on what is wanted/expected from them becase that is changing as the coach changes.

the one thing we do know is that many of the players brought in here are not worth keeping long term b/c they've quit on coaches, don't play hard all the time, or have conditioning problems. those guys need to go b/c they probably won't help us achieve anything of value anyway.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-18-2006 12:21 AM]



You really have to stop preaching that stuff...Larry was a special case...He dragged these guys through the mud, demoralized the team, called them stupid, delusional, etc...No one will play hard for you under those circumstances...i don't ever recall larry calling any player stupid in his career...he did this year...But you still think these guys should run through walls for him anyway...OK...

OngBok
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5/18/2006  12:48 AM
Holfresh you are right on target with this entire thread !!!
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
djsunyc
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5/18/2006  12:51 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by joec32033:

With all the coaching changes Zeke is pulling his year 3 as GM is year one when it comes to judging the players he brought in.

It is impossible to get a grasp on these players because there is no consistency on what is wanted/expected from them becase that is changing as the coach changes.

the one thing we do know is that many of the players brought in here are not worth keeping long term b/c they've quit on coaches, don't play hard all the time, or have conditioning problems. those guys need to go b/c they probably won't help us achieve anything of value anyway.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 05-18-2006 12:21 AM]



You really have to stop preaching that stuff...Larry was a special case...He dragged these guys through the mud, demoralized the team, called them stupid, delusional, etc...No one will play hard for you under those circumstances...i don't ever recall larry calling any player stupid in his career...he did this year...But you still think these guys should run through walls for him anyway...OK...


notice i didn't say this season. it's the pattern for many of them throughout their careers.
holfresh
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5/18/2006  1:03 AM


What player on this team do you know of quitting on his coach this before year?..you just throw these things out there...

fishmike
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5/18/2006  7:22 AM
Francis quit in Hou and in Orlando. Make excuses about trade rumors all you want, he stopped playing hard. Jalen quits every week. Marbury has quit on his teammates. His coach? I dont know.. whats the difference? Mo Taylor was stuck on IR at one point Spoon actually was taking minutes from him because JVG was so disgusted with his play.

Anyway this whole thing about Larry dragging them through the mud is so overblown its not even funny. Its just another excuse for guys who have made excuses their whole careers.

But thats cool. Lets focus on all the NBA success the core of this team has had. Lets focus on what system and coach these players have thrived under. Now by thrive I dont mean producing stats. I mean producing wins. How about we just throw that out there?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
FireIsiah
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5/18/2006  7:55 AM
Name me 1 defensive player on his young atlethic roster?
I want to leave something that's going to stand for a long timeI want to leave a legacy,I want to leave tradition.I want to leave an imprint,a blueprint in terms of how people play,and how they coach and how they respond when they put on the Knick uni.
misterearl
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5/18/2006  8:08 AM
Basketball Defense is about cohesion and trust.

Have you ever played the game?

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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5/18/2006  8:26 AM
FireIsiah - are you REALLY suggesting any one player can "shut down" a LeBron, Amarae, a Nash, a Shaq or Kobe or a Rip?

This is the problem with recating with emotion and not thinking about the nature of the game itself.

Basketball, above all else, is a team game.

The job of the head coach is to motivate and instill the trust in each player so they all understand where they expect to be on the floor on defense.

It's about having one another's back.

The kvetching over lack of "defensive" players is just plain silly.
once a knick always a knick
McK1
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5/18/2006  8:33 AM
the guards were very cohesive in their desire not to stop anyone.

AD smacking Tony Parker in the chest becaue he got tired of seeing him in the lane every trip was the play of the year for NY.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
fishmike
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5/18/2006  9:14 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Basketball Defense is about cohesion and trust.

Have you ever played the game?

Wrong, its about effort and desire. You have to want to stop your opponent and you have to work hard, even if your guy doesnt have the ball. Allan Houston was never a good defender, but he worked 3 times harder on defense than any guard on this current team.

You have to be willing to chase your guy around. You have to be willing to close gaps, to run in passing lanes, to fight over screens. If you think our guards do that on a nightly basis your lost. Kind of ironic how the one time Marbury actually fights over a screen he gets hurt huh?

Trust is an excuse for not giving 100%. Thats just more of our loser culture around here. "He doesnt do it, so why should I??"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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5/18/2006  9:14 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Basketball Defense is about cohesion and trust.

Have you ever played the game?

Wrong, its about effort and desire. You have to want to stop your opponent and you have to work hard, even if your guy doesnt have the ball. Allan Houston was never a good defender, but he worked 3 times harder on defense than any guard on this current team.

You have to be willing to chase your guy around. You have to be willing to close gaps, to run in passing lanes, to fight over screens. If you think our guards do that on a nightly basis your lost. Kind of ironic how the one time Marbury actually fights over a screen he gets hurt huh?

Trust is an excuse for not giving 100%. Thats just more of our loser culture around here. "He doesnt do it, so why should I??"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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5/18/2006  9:29 AM
Posted by holfresh:



What player on this team do you know of quitting on his coach this before year?..you just throw these things out there...



Jerome, QDog was warned about the dogs many times, Antonio did not even want to be here.

and as mentioned, Francis, Marbury, Mo. T., TT quit on his team.

Under larry We saw Reezy get found wanting, and Curry was fundamentally a mess, Butler make huge strides and render Jerome about useless (make Isiah look bad on that one!), Got QDog going good, and we saw progress and minutes for the three rookies. Frye was on the all rookie team!

Regarding calling the players out, Isiah should know better! Bobby knight was brutal on his kids! And they either hated him or loved him. Sounds like Larry. HEs not here to win friends, he is here to change the culture. A losing culture.

And, What up with Detroit now on the hot seat? They trying to win with offense? They are not playing to their strength. ITs defense.
misterearl
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5/18/2006  9:29 AM
fish.mike - are effort and desire coachable?

I'm jus' axin'
once a knick always a knick
Bippity10
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5/18/2006  11:38 AM
Posted by misterearl:

fish.mike - are effort and desire coachable?

I'm jus' axin'

As a coach of 10 years and almost killing myself trying I have learned from myself and from some other great coach's that if you hve to coach effort and desire you are not going to win.
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
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5/18/2006  1:25 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by misterearl:

Basketball Defense is about cohesion and trust.

Have you ever played the game?

Wrong, its about effort and desire. You have to want to stop your opponent and you have to work hard, even if your guy doesnt have the ball. Allan Houston was never a good defender, but he worked 3 times harder on defense than any guard on this current team.

You have to be willing to chase your guy around. You have to be willing to close gaps, to run in passing lanes, to fight over screens. If you think our guards do that on a nightly basis your lost. Kind of ironic how the one time Marbury actually fights over a screen he gets hurt huh?

Trust is an excuse for not giving 100%. Thats just more of our loser culture around here. "He doesnt do it, so why should I??"



When did Marbury quit this season??? His season was over when he got hurt fighting through a pick, Francis was barely here for a cup of tea, so was Jalen, the fate of our season was sealed by the time those two got here...If you are looking at deeds during the season, you can say that Steph quit in the Orlando game...And if you are going to use those standards, then Larry quit on this team long before anyone did...When he started players in their home towns, he quit on this team...When he wasn't trying to win games, he quit on this team....When he inexplicably buried guys on the bench like Craw, Frye, and Lee for a good portion of the season, he quit on this team...When he undermined the moral of the team by ragging them in the press, he quit on this team....When he took extented time off after he got ill and was taken to the hospital, later he said he had another ailment, he quit on this team...

So you can now expalin to me how you change the culture by tanking the season and losing games..How you change the culture by undermining the confidence of your players in the press...



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-18-2006 1:26 PM]
simrud
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5/18/2006  1:25 PM
I think its time to play Cult of Personality again isnt it.

Look into my eyes, what do you see?
Cult of personality
I know your anger, i know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
I'm the cult of personality
Like mussolini and kennedy
I'm the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights, a nobel prize
The mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your t.v.
I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you still you love me

I tell you one and one makes three
I'm the cult of personality
Like joseph stalin and gandi
I'm the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights a nobel prize
A leader speaks, that leader dies
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set you free

You gave me fortune
You gave me fame
You me power in your god's name
I'm every person you need to be
I'm the cult of personality
Look into my eyes, what do you see?
Cult of personality
I know your anger, i know your dreams
I've been everything you want to be
I'm the cult of personality
Like mussolini and kennedy
I'm the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights, a nobel prize
The mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
I'm the smiling face on your t.v.
I'm the cult of personality
I exploit you still you love me

I tell you one and one makes three
I'm the cult of personality
Like joseph stalin and gandi
I'm the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights a nobel prize
A leader speaks, that leader dies
You don't have to follow me
Only you can set you free

You gave me fortune
You gave me fame
You me power in your god's name
I'm every person you need to be
I'm the cult of personality

[Edited by - simrud on 05-18-2006 1:26 PM]
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bippity10
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5/18/2006  1:41 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by misterearl:

Basketball Defense is about cohesion and trust.

Have you ever played the game?

Wrong, its about effort and desire. You have to want to stop your opponent and you have to work hard, even if your guy doesnt have the ball. Allan Houston was never a good defender, but he worked 3 times harder on defense than any guard on this current team.

You have to be willing to chase your guy around. You have to be willing to close gaps, to run in passing lanes, to fight over screens. If you think our guards do that on a nightly basis your lost. Kind of ironic how the one time Marbury actually fights over a screen he gets hurt huh?

Trust is an excuse for not giving 100%. Thats just more of our loser culture around here. "He doesnt do it, so why should I??"



When did Marbury quit this season???



[Edited by - holfresh on 05-18-2006 1:26 PM]

Two words: Or Lando
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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5/18/2006  1:50 PM
It's amazing how our standards have dropped so low. For 15 years if you weren't willing to dive through a plate glass window for the ball we boo'd you. Guys would punch each other in the face to draw a charge. Now we have guys that stage open revolts and pack it in on a nightly basis get the benefit of the doubt.

Once again, it's perfectly fine to hate your coach. You can think LB is the biggest a-hole ever to walk the face of the earth. You have my blessing to walk in every day and ask IT to get rid of him. But when you are on the court you owe it to yourself, the fans and your teammates to play your asse of regardless of the circumstances. This is the only type of player I want associated with this team. My standards have not lowered.
I just hope that people will like me
knixphan
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5/18/2006  1:51 PM
Yep, it was a coup attempt, no doubt....

But ya know, I don't think a coach of Larry's calibre should have to pull a coup just to have his GM back his vision. Zeke should have been able to distance himself emotionally from the acquisitions he made and really try to hear what Larry wants... (Even if it meant Starbury out) I hear posters mentioning having a VISION, a PLAN...and if Isiah and LB actually sat down in a room and fleshed out a vision upon which they could both agree...A long-term vision to get them to the finals...

Ok, I suppose that's already science-fiction, so I'll stop that thought
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
Now do you see what I've been saying about Isiah since Day 1?

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