Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by eViL:

Posted by Nalod:

When you break down the defense and distribute the ball EFFECTIVELY, then your the "seasonist" and make your other players "taste better".

Thanks for the laugh bro. That was hilarious.

Everything already tastes good to Big Game James!

(CRICKET)

ONe too many James eating jokes.

Dude, this is ridiculous. Stockton was a great player, but he played with the other "best power forward ever to play the game." I don't recall many other players on the team looking great because of Stockton. Watch a Suns game before you post something like this, and then get back to me.

Posted by tomverve:

Posted by Nalod:

THe argument for Nash statistically is they have 3 new starters this year, and they have four players all having career years.

Nash had a career year last season, and he wasn't just playing with 3 new starters-- he was playing with a whole new team. Before then it was inconceivable that a player of Nash's caliber would ever be considered for MVP. Why the leap? Among other things, he came to a new system, coach D'Antoni's system, which was ideally suited to his talents and the talents of others. So how can one so readily credit Nash with all the glory for his team's play? How do we know that Boris Diaw, for instance, wouldn't have had a fantastic breakout season in D'Antoni's system even without Nash? After all, D'Antoni's system is a large part of what made the difference for Nash himself in the first place.

This is just to say that the analyses of Nash's effect on his team that I've seen are almost universally too simplistic and naive. No doubt Nash has a huge impact on his team's level of play, but so does their coach, so does Marion, etc. Nash deserves a lot of credit, but not all of it-- a large chunk of Nash's share probably rightfully belongs to D'Antoni, and to a lesser extent, his still underrated teammates like Marion and Diaw.

On balance, I see Nash on a par with Billups as far as MVP candidacy goes-- firmly second tier. He has no business winning it this season and had no business winning it last season. Simply put, if Nash really deserved to win MVP this season over Dirk, Kobe, LeBron, and Wade, then Stockton was robbed of several MVP awards in his day by his contemporaries. The gap between this season's top players and the MVPs of the early/mid 90s is not as big as the gap between Nash and Stockton, since Stockton matched Nash's prowess on offense while actually playing defense as well. Nash at best is half the player Stockton was. Fantastic player, but not an MVP.

Posted by McK1:

thats like saying Manning doesn't deserve it because of the offensive freedom of the system. In the end you still have to have the IQ and skill set to learn lead and execute whats being given.

most famous s ystem in sports has to be the West Coast offense

several teams have tried it with several quarterbacks yet only 3 since Walsh introduced it have mastered it and made it as unstoppable on the field as it is on paper - Montana Young and Favre.

its a symbiotic relationship which is why D'Antoni was recognized as COY.

Shaun Marion isn't winning it despite being a statistical monster because Marion doesn't have the ability to create shots for the 5 or 6 other suns having career years this year or for the 3 that had career years last year.

If there was an Utility Man of the year Award Shaun Richard Jefferson and Howard would likely be 1 2 and 3 every year.

MVP is the guy most key to the VICTORY and for the suns that is Nash.

[Edited by - McK1 on 04-28-2006 1:34 PM]

Posted by tomverve:

Posted by Nalod:

THe argument for Nash statistically is they have 3 new starters this year, and they have four players all having career years.

Nash had a career year last season, and he wasn't just playing with 3 new starters-- he was playing with a whole new team. Before then it was inconceivable that a player of Nash's caliber would ever be considered for MVP. Why the leap? Among other things, he came to a new system, coach D'Antoni's system, which was ideally suited to his talents and the talents of others. So how can one so readily credit Nash with all the glory for his team's play? How do we know that Boris Diaw, for instance, wouldn't have had a fantastic breakout season in D'Antoni's system even without Nash? After all, D'Antoni's system is a large part of what made the difference for Nash himself in the first place.

This is just to say that the analyses of Nash's effect on his team that I've seen are almost universally too simplistic and naive. No doubt Nash has a huge impact on his team's level of play, but so does their coach, so does Marion, etc. Nash deserves a lot of credit, but not all of it-- a large chunk of Nash's share probably rightfully belongs to D'Antoni, and to a lesser extent, his still underrated teammates like Marion and Diaw.

On balance, I see Nash on a par with Billups as far as MVP candidacy goes-- firmly second tier. He has no business winning it this season and had no business winning it last season. Simply put, if Nash really deserved to win MVP this season over Dirk, Kobe, LeBron, and Wade, then Stockton was robbed of several MVP awards in his day by his contemporaries. The gap between this season's top players and the MVPs of the early/mid 90s is not as big as the gap between Nash and Stockton, since Stockton matched Nash's prowess on offense while actually playing defense as well. Nash at best is half the player Stockton was. Fantastic player, but not an MVP.

Posted by SlimPack:

has there ever been an mvp that didnt make it past the first round?