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Not 1 player has flourished under LB, Not 1!!!
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crzymdups
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4/18/2006  11:06 PM
Posted by eViL:

Oh and Darko played like a beast under Flip Saunders, didn't he? Funny, he's only showing signs now... I wonder why. Maybe it's because he's not stuck behind 4 superior front court players on a championship contending team.

um, maybe it was because Brown destroyed Darko's confidence his first two years in the NBA (america, too) and because he called Ariza delusional and benched him?

why do people make so many excuses for Larry Brown? people were worried we were going to lose Ariza to free agency before Brown started pouting about what a "delusional child" Ariza was. please.

no, really, why do people make so many excuses for Larry Brown?

fyi: Ariza registered a healthy DNPCD 11 of his last 13 games as a Knick. The two he played in were garbage time minutes in blowouts. this of course, after Ariza was the starting SF for the first 10 games of the season. gee, I wonder why Ariza was confused?

[Edited by - crzymdups on 04-18-2006 11:09 PM]
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holfresh
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4/18/2006  11:10 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by holfresh:


yeah...remove Marbs and all things stay the same we win 20-25 gmes next year with Brown...

Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.



There is no Dwight Howard on this roster....
crzymdups
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4/18/2006  11:11 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by holfresh:


yeah...remove Marbs and all things stay the same we win 20-25 gmes next year with Brown...

Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.



There is no Dwight Howard on this roster....


if there was would Larry Brown start him?
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holfresh
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4/18/2006  11:12 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by holfresh:


yeah...remove Marbs and all things stay the same we win 20-25 gmes next year with Brown...

Similar to the way Orlando fell apart when they traded Steve Francis.



There is no Dwight Howard on this roster....


if there was would Larry Brown start him?



Yeah he would but Jackie Brown would be pressing him for minutes...
eViL
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4/18/2006  11:19 PM
No one is making excuses for Brown. He didn't have a good season this year. How many times do people have to say that?

The Marbury dick-riders like to place the blame on Brown for the players having a bad season. While anyone with even a scintilla of logic realizes that players have to play with effort to play well. Our players haven't been playing with 100% effort all year. WHOA!! Big surprise!! It's not like that wasn't their MO in the past. It must be Brown who turned them into a bunch of lazy slugs, right? Did you forget the fact that most of the guys on our team are career losers? Hmmm...

LB mishandled some communication issues. He never picked a starting SF and PF. However, If our players can't man up and play 100% it doesn't matter if he's singing their praises in the media and using the same lineup all year - teams that don't play with effort on both sides of the ball lose more than they win.
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crzymdups
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4/18/2006  11:24 PM
Posted by eViL:

No one is making excuses for Brown. He didn't have a good season this year. How many times do people have to say that?

The Marbury dick-riders like to place the blame on Brown for the players having a bad season. While anyone with even a scintilla of logic realizes that players have to play with effort to play well. Our players haven't been playing with 100% effort all year. WHOA!! Big surprise!! It's not like that wasn't their MO in the past. It must be Brown who turned them into a bunch of lazy slugs, right? Did you forget the fact that most of the guys on our team are career losers? Hmmm...

LB mishandled some communication issues. He never picked a starting SF and PF. However, If our players can't man up and play 100% it doesn't matter if he's singing their praises in the media and using the same lineup all year - teams that don't play with effort on both sides of the ball lose more than they win.

I don't give Marbury or Isiah free passes. They both screwed up badly. But Brown could have set a core rotation, yes we had some injuries, but there's a reason we set an all-time record for starting lineups - Brown couldn't make up his mind and stick with something. There's a lot to be said for building a cohesive unit in this league. How many times did Brown say, "I'm going to play the kids" or "it's time to settle on a 9 or 10 man rotation"? All through December/January, at least. and he never ever did. it was really an awful job.

there are plenty of reasons this season stank and it's not ALL Brown's fault - but that shouldn't mean we aren't allowed to say Brown stank up the joint and made it worse than it had to be. this was a young team. if Brown had made nice with Marbury and picked a set lineup and we won 40 games and made the playoffs, people would be giving Brown a medal of honor. he didn't do his job, it's time to fess up. if he thinks he can't do it next year, he should leave.
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eViL
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4/18/2006  11:27 PM
Losing sucks. When you lose this much no one is blameless. With all his mistakes this season, I'll still take Brown, based solely on his track record, over any of our players.
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oohah
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4/18/2006  11:27 PM
It still doesn't change the fact that they got way better the minute Francis was gone. They had Jameer while Francis was there. Why the turnaround then? He's playing roughly the same amount of minutes that he played with Francis still on the team. Why would they be better if they removed a "talented" player and replaced him with nothing?

Francis was an isolated case on the Magic. The entire Knicks team is screwing up, not just Marbury.

However, because the Magic got better after trading Francis does not guarantee the Knicks get better without Marbury.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
crzymdups
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4/18/2006  11:31 PM
Posted by oohah:
It still doesn't change the fact that they got way better the minute Francis was gone. They had Jameer while Francis was there. Why the turnaround then? He's playing roughly the same amount of minutes that he played with Francis still on the team. Why would they be better if they removed a "talented" player and replaced him with nothing?

Francis was an isolated case on the Magic. The entire Knicks team is screwing up, not just Marbury.

However, because the Magic got better after trading Francis does not guarantee the Knicks get better without Marbury.

oohah

I buy that both Francis and Marbury are cancers. they both think they're Iverson (or Isiah depending on the day) - and they surely ain't.
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eViL
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4/18/2006  11:31 PM
Posted by oohah:

However, because the Magic got better after trading Francis does not guarantee the Knicks get better without Marbury.

I agree - it's no guarantee. The Francis case just illustrates that sometimes removing a more "talented" player can improve a team. Who knows? The way the Knicks luck has been going, the might get worse if they got rid of Marbury (that would be a first - a team getting worse after Marbury left).
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crzymdups
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4/18/2006  11:33 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by oohah:

However, because the Magic got better after trading Francis does not guarantee the Knicks get better without Marbury.

I agree - it's no guarantee. The Francis case just illustrates that sometimes removing a more "talented" player can improve a team. Who knows? The way the Knicks luck has been going, the might get worse if they got rid of Marbury (that would be a first - a team getting worse after Marbury left).

hey, the Pistons jumped up 11 wins once Brown left! the 97-98 Pacers jumped up 20 wins after Brown left! track record alert!
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holfresh
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4/18/2006  11:36 PM
Posted by eViL:

No one is making excuses for Brown. He didn't have a good season this year. How many times do people have to say that?

The Marbury dick-riders like to place the blame on Brown for the players having a bad season. While anyone with even a scintilla of logic realizes that players have to play with effort to play well. Our players haven't been playing with 100% effort all year. WHOA!! Big surprise!! It's not like that wasn't their MO in the past. It must be Brown who turned them into a bunch of lazy slugs, right? Did you forget the fact that most of the guys on our team are career losers? Hmmm...

LB mishandled some communication issues. He never picked a starting SF and PF. However, If our players can't man up and play 100% it doesn't matter if he's singing their praises in the media and using the same lineup all year - teams that don't play with effort on both sides of the ball lose more than they win.



I like that, he mishandled some communication issues, so I guess he mishandled the lineups as well as the Knicks had a record amount of starting lineups in one reason...I guess he mishandled players in starting in their hometowns, because at one point in the season it was a rule and not the exception...I guess he mishandled a few players as well as it seems like everyone's numbers suffered under Brown's tutorage this year...I guess he mishandled the numbers in the win loss column because I for one was hoping Brown would have the reverse effect of being 59-22 instead of 22-59...

The one thing I had hoped for that I didn't see, mentioned in an article yeterday was Brown inserting assistant coaches in their hometowns...Well there is always next year...
OldFan
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4/18/2006  11:43 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by eViL:

No one is making excuses for Brown. He didn't have a good season this year. How many times do people have to say that?

The Marbury dick-riders like to place the blame on Brown for the players having a bad season. While anyone with even a scintilla of logic realizes that players have to play with effort to play well. Our players haven't been playing with 100% effort all year. WHOA!! Big surprise!! It's not like that wasn't their MO in the past. It must be Brown who turned them into a bunch of lazy slugs, right? Did you forget the fact that most of the guys on our team are career losers? Hmmm...

LB mishandled some communication issues. He never picked a starting SF and PF. However, If our players can't man up and play 100% it doesn't matter if he's singing their praises in the media and using the same lineup all year - teams that don't play with effort on both sides of the ball lose more than they win.

I don't give Marbury or Isiah free passes. They both screwed up badly. But Brown could have set a core rotation, yes we had some injuries, but there's a reason we set an all-time record for starting lineups - Brown couldn't make up his mind and stick with something. There's a lot to be said for building a cohesive unit in this league. How many times did Brown say, "I'm going to play the kids" or "it's time to settle on a 9 or 10 man rotation"? All through December/January, at least. and he never ever did. it was really an awful job.

there are plenty of reasons this season stank and it's not ALL Brown's fault - but that shouldn't mean we aren't allowed to say Brown stank up the joint and made it worse than it had to be. this was a young team. if Brown had made nice with Marbury and picked a set lineup and we won 40 games and made the playoffs, people would be giving Brown a medal of honor. he didn't do his job, it's time to fess up. if he thinks he can't do it next year, he should leave.


The only people who picked this team to win 40 who weren't on this board were the folks who thought Brown could add 10 games. No one thought this team was well built.

If Brown makes nice to Marbury and kisses the other players A$$es the team wins 30-35 games and never gets beyond that level. Like Brown or Hate-em you aren't paying attention if you think you can build a team around one dimensional players like Marbs and Curry and win. (though being a fan I'm still trying to believe Curry can improve.) You're probably right that under pressure from Brown they played even worse but that says as much about the players as it does about Brown.
crzymdups
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4/18/2006  11:48 PM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by eViL:

No one is making excuses for Brown. He didn't have a good season this year. How many times do people have to say that?

The Marbury dick-riders like to place the blame on Brown for the players having a bad season. While anyone with even a scintilla of logic realizes that players have to play with effort to play well. Our players haven't been playing with 100% effort all year. WHOA!! Big surprise!! It's not like that wasn't their MO in the past. It must be Brown who turned them into a bunch of lazy slugs, right? Did you forget the fact that most of the guys on our team are career losers? Hmmm...

LB mishandled some communication issues. He never picked a starting SF and PF. However, If our players can't man up and play 100% it doesn't matter if he's singing their praises in the media and using the same lineup all year - teams that don't play with effort on both sides of the ball lose more than they win.

I don't give Marbury or Isiah free passes. They both screwed up badly. But Brown could have set a core rotation, yes we had some injuries, but there's a reason we set an all-time record for starting lineups - Brown couldn't make up his mind and stick with something. There's a lot to be said for building a cohesive unit in this league. How many times did Brown say, "I'm going to play the kids" or "it's time to settle on a 9 or 10 man rotation"? All through December/January, at least. and he never ever did. it was really an awful job.

there are plenty of reasons this season stank and it's not ALL Brown's fault - but that shouldn't mean we aren't allowed to say Brown stank up the joint and made it worse than it had to be. this was a young team. if Brown had made nice with Marbury and picked a set lineup and we won 40 games and made the playoffs, people would be giving Brown a medal of honor. he didn't do his job, it's time to fess up. if he thinks he can't do it next year, he should leave.


The only people who picked this team to win 40 who weren't on this board were the folks who thought Brown could add 10 games. No one thought this team was well built.

If Brown makes nice to Marbury and kisses the other players A$$es the team wins 30-35 games and never gets beyond that level. Like Brown or Hate-em you aren't paying attention if you think you can build a team around one dimensional players like Marbs and Curry and win. (though being a fan I'm still trying to believe Curry can improve.) You're probably right that under pressure from Brown they played even worse but that says as much about the players as it does about Brown.

fair enough. I agree, it's an indictment on Marbury and Curry and most of the rest, but I don't believe it's fair to them to not set a rotation. is that really asking too much? I mean, he couldn't weed out the guys who weren't trying and bench them early? he said the final 15 games of the season were an audition, shouldn't the FIRST 15 games of the season or training camp been the audition? he didn't know what he had after 65 games and a training camp? I don't know. I think that's a bad job.

for the record, I think think this team could have easily won 40 games, but with the constant injuries to QRich and Marbury this season, I don't know if it's possible to predict. I think they'd both be playing if the games mattered right now.
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Bobby
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4/18/2006  11:54 PM
our win record only validates larry brown's first year as head coach had absolutely no winning effect value....in fact this team went backwards under his watch
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holfresh
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4/19/2006  12:02 AM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by eViL:

No one is making excuses for Brown. He didn't have a good season this year. How many times do people have to say that?

The Marbury dick-riders like to place the blame on Brown for the players having a bad season. While anyone with even a scintilla of logic realizes that players have to play with effort to play well. Our players haven't been playing with 100% effort all year. WHOA!! Big surprise!! It's not like that wasn't their MO in the past. It must be Brown who turned them into a bunch of lazy slugs, right? Did you forget the fact that most of the guys on our team are career losers? Hmmm...

LB mishandled some communication issues. He never picked a starting SF and PF. However, If our players can't man up and play 100% it doesn't matter if he's singing their praises in the media and using the same lineup all year - teams that don't play with effort on both sides of the ball lose more than they win.

I don't give Marbury or Isiah free passes. They both screwed up badly. But Brown could have set a core rotation, yes we had some injuries, but there's a reason we set an all-time record for starting lineups - Brown couldn't make up his mind and stick with something. There's a lot to be said for building a cohesive unit in this league. How many times did Brown say, "I'm going to play the kids" or "it's time to settle on a 9 or 10 man rotation"? All through December/January, at least. and he never ever did. it was really an awful job.

there are plenty of reasons this season stank and it's not ALL Brown's fault - but that shouldn't mean we aren't allowed to say Brown stank up the joint and made it worse than it had to be. this was a young team. if Brown had made nice with Marbury and picked a set lineup and we won 40 games and made the playoffs, people would be giving Brown a medal of honor. he didn't do his job, it's time to fess up. if he thinks he can't do it next year, he should leave.


The only people who picked this team to win 40 who weren't on this board were the folks who thought Brown could add 10 games. No one thought this team was well built.

If Brown makes nice to Marbury and kisses the other players A$$es the team wins 30-35 games and never gets beyond that level. Like Brown or Hate-em you aren't paying attention if you think you can build a team around one dimensional players like Marbs and Curry and win. (though being a fan I'm still trying to believe Curry can improve.) You're probably right that under pressure from Brown they played even worse but that says as much about the players as it does about Brown.


Rome was not built in a day...The idea that this is our final roster a we prepare to run for a Championship just 2 years removed from Layden is just preposterous....How could anyone complaint about the roster not being what it should be after 2 year....Especially a coach who has been in the business for 30 years...He started yapping before the season even started...
Rich
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4/19/2006  12:08 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

Marbury sucks. Brown sucks. Isiah sucks. the three part ****tail is toxic.

It's pretty freakin' depressing (basketball wise).
nixluva
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4/19/2006  2:03 AM
I believe that the Larry Brown ass kissers haven't looked hard enough at his career. This guy wouldn't even be here if he was all that he was supposed to be. Why isn't he still coaching a title contending team? What coach gets chased out of town from a title contender unless there's some real issues with him? LB got too much credit for Detroit and not enough blame for the Knicks. This guy was HORRIBLE!!!! I don't care who we had on this team. It wasn't a worse team than Chaney, Wilkins or Herb had, so what's LB's excuse for such a horible job. He was looking to pass on blame to Isaiah before the season even started. Instead of speaking on the positives of what he had, LB focsed on the negative from the get go and he destroyed the confidence of players like Jamal. It took him all season to get his head back on straight. Was that really necessary?

What about LB's constant flip flops on setting the rotation and then his many calls to start playing the young guys and then not doing it. In all my years i've NEVER seen a worse job of running a team. He alienated most of his players. Even his pet players like AD turned on him. WHY? Cuz he's a phoney. He's been exposed now since the olympics and last years Pistons dropping him like a bad habit. Then he comes here and makes all these claims that he's going to maximize players strengths and minimize their weaknesses, but he does the complete opposite. He further exposes this teams weaknesses and amplifies them. last year this team avg'd only 14 turnovers a game and basically we had a fairly decent offense for a losing team. Itt wasn't that we couldn't score, but that we couldn't defend and we had no size. So it wasn't necessary for LB to change EVERYTHING about the way the team played on offense. His offense stinks and always has. What covers it up is that his teams defend. But you have to have the right players for that and clearly we're not built that way. So why didn't LB adjust so as to help this team win games. Why no zones at least in stretches so that we might slow teams down. As just a change of pace once in a while. LB did NOTHING to help this team to succeed. I'd like someone to explain to me what he did as a coach to help this team win games? I didn't see anything.
TMS
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4/19/2006  2:29 AM
I'd like someone to explain to me what he did as a coach to help this team win games? I didn't see anything.

the same can be said about the play of a certain overly arrogant, self-hyped & spoiled primadonna on this team who's labeled himself as the best PG in the NBA going into this season... you want to say the LB supporters are ignoring his faults, but the same seems to hold true for some of you Starbury arse kissers as well.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-19-2006 02:30 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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4/19/2006  8:14 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by oohah:
It still doesn't change the fact that they got way better the minute Francis was gone. They had Jameer while Francis was there. Why the turnaround then? He's playing roughly the same amount of minutes that he played with Francis still on the team. Why would they be better if they removed a "talented" player and replaced him with nothing?

Francis was an isolated case on the Magic. The entire Knicks team is screwing up, not just Marbury.

However, because the Magic got better after trading Francis does not guarantee the Knicks get better without Marbury.

oohah

I buy that both Francis and Marbury are cancers. they both think they're Iverson (or Isiah depending on the day) - and they surely ain't.
Agree 100% Neither are in Iverson's class. For all AI's suspect work habits (practice) nobody in the NBA plays harder and plays hurt more than he does. He plays every game to win and for all his transgression does do things like stop shooting or not play hard to prove his point to a coach.

So its the Marbury dick riders vs. the LB ass kissers?

Please, is there any doubt Marbury is about Marbury? Did he buy into Mike DAntonio's system? A guy who's probably been the best coach in the NBA last 2 years? He sucked under LB. He didnt play defense for Lenny, all alone on the Nets and didnt want to be in KG's shadow. My god... how sad. Larry Brown is not perfect, but he's a good coach and he has adapted his team's style to fit personel

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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