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marbury heats up....(article)
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holfresh
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4/15/2006  12:51 AM
I agree with most of what you are saying and think that Marbs has screwed this beyond repair...I do think that Larry has tried to bring a fundamental approach that much of these players desperately needed...Marbs was not one of those players...Watching the games, you don't see Marbs takings shots that he should not be taking...I don't see Marbs not trying to hit the open guy...I heard that Marbs did break a bit of the plays Larry called on offense, I can't tell, it's all hear say and I tend not to believe stuff like that...Clearly these two guys has had their issues from day one...I think what we have seen between these two this year in the press has been Larry faulth and not the other way around...All Marbs verbal rants has been as a result of something Larry has said negatively about him and it got back to him...

Another one of Larry's problem is he is alot like Marbs...He thinks he is a coaching genuis and can do whatever he wants and have people buy into what he is selling...He wants to have 45 different lineups, start people in their hometowns, play people who do not deserve the playing to long periods to prove a point that he only knows...Kill players in the press and think people are going to run through a wall for him because he is a genius....He thinks that he is so smart that he is beyond question.....He has players playing out of position and have people playing places they are not comfortable and tells us that the roster is flawed and we should buy this...Like Zeke said, all rosters are flawed until you win a Championship...He does have a resume, one of the things on a resume that draws attention is number of places you have work and how long you stayed in those jobs.....It really doesn't take this guy long to wear out his welcome.....
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nixluva
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4/15/2006  2:47 AM
I still don't get how so many fans can be so wrong about this. Please make up your minds. If the team is a good team and Steph is the only thing holding them back then Why don't they have a winning record without him? Even tho Steph can do much more, which he proved during the 6 game streak, LB had him throttle back his game for the sake of the team, but that was detrimental, cuz the team wasn't holding up their end of the bargain. When Q could't find his shot or stay healthy that had NOTHING to do with Steph. When Jamal was LOST on the court and just couldn't get comfortable the whole season until now, that had NOTHING to do with Steph. When we went months without a scoring threat at SF, that had NOTHING to do with Steph. When Curry couldn't breathe without a TO or Foul or James in the same manner couldn't stay on the court, that had NOTHING to do with Steph. When Larry didn't play the kids even when they showed more hustle and heart and willingness to do what he asked, that had NOTHING to do with Steph. Steph has avg'd the lowest Turnovers per game of his career and yet the team avg'd more TO's than last year, this too had NOTHING to do with Steph.

You can't have it both ways. Its not Steph who is making this team bad and really he actually does improve the team when he's playing his game, but even that can't cover up all the problems on this team. So go ahead and blame Steph for all the myriad of things that are wrong with this team, but I'm telling you that you have no facts to back up such a claim.
BasketballJones
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4/15/2006  9:38 AM
Marbury doesn't have to be the only problem to be a big part of the problem.

[Edited by - BASKETBALLJONES on 04-15-2006 09:43]
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BlueSeats
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4/15/2006  10:19 AM
Having Marbury on your team is like having a toddler in the operating room. You might not have the best surgeon to begin with, but if that's the case it's all the more reason to let him and his crew concentrate.

This team is too fragile to be able to absorb and deflect Marbury's dour moods, entitlement programs, calls for attention, finger pointing, mutinies, etc.

Send Marbury to the principles office so that the students who want to learn are able to learn.
bigbeast
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4/15/2006  10:50 AM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

what an idiot!! If you're the team captain, you should be discussing team, not about you...

ALso, one thing he should learn is if you're upset or frustrated, that's the time you don't talk to the media cause you tend to say things where people get it twist it or take it the wrong way..

This dude should learn to shut his mouth..

Dont forget, NExt-Town-Brown was waxing poetic about his own personal track record of turning teams around and leaving them in better shape than he found them when he was in the mix of his personal war of words with Marbury. This had nothing to do with TEAM, but eveyrthing to do with BROWN

"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
WOODMANnYk
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4/15/2006  2:05 PM
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

what an idiot!! If you're the team captain, you should be discussing team, not about you...

ALso, one thing he should learn is if you're upset or frustrated, that's the time you don't talk to the media cause you tend to say things where people get it twist it or take it the wrong way..

This dude should learn to shut his mouth..

Dont forget, NExt-Town-Brown was waxing poetic about his own personal track record of turning teams around and leaving them in better shape than he found them when he was in the mix of his personal war of words with Marbury. This had nothing to do with TEAM, but eveyrthing to do with BROWN
Brown has gone to 3 NBA finals and won a championship.. He's been coaching b-ball way before you were born.

All marbury did was knock himself and the team out of the 1st round around 3 times.. I think Brown has every right to say what he says..
The Future. GO KNICKS!
holfresh
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4/15/2006  2:13 PM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

what an idiot!! If you're the team captain, you should be discussing team, not about you...

ALso, one thing he should learn is if you're upset or frustrated, that's the time you don't talk to the media cause you tend to say things where people get it twist it or take it the wrong way..

This dude should learn to shut his mouth..

Dont forget, NExt-Town-Brown was waxing poetic about his own personal track record of turning teams around and leaving them in better shape than he found them when he was in the mix of his personal war of words with Marbury. This had nothing to do with TEAM, but eveyrthing to do with BROWN
Brown has gone to 3 NBA finals and won a championship.. He's been coaching b-ball way before you were born.

All marbury did was knock himself and the team out of the 1st round around 3 times.. I think Brown has every right to say what he says..



Brown's resume and a token gets me a ride to 33rd and 7th....Lets talk about the bang up job he has done coaching the Knicks this past year....
WOODMANnYk
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4/15/2006  2:20 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:
Posted by bigbeast:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:

what an idiot!! If you're the team captain, you should be discussing team, not about you...

ALso, one thing he should learn is if you're upset or frustrated, that's the time you don't talk to the media cause you tend to say things where people get it twist it or take it the wrong way..

This dude should learn to shut his mouth..

Dont forget, NExt-Town-Brown was waxing poetic about his own personal track record of turning teams around and leaving them in better shape than he found them when he was in the mix of his personal war of words with Marbury. This had nothing to do with TEAM, but eveyrthing to do with BROWN
Brown has gone to 3 NBA finals and won a championship.. He's been coaching b-ball way before you were born.

All marbury did was knock himself and the team out of the 1st round around 3 times.. I think Brown has every right to say what he says..



Brown's resume and a token gets me a ride to 33rd and 7th....Lets talk about the bang up job he has done coaching the Knicks this past year....


tell me this: what happened with philly his 1st yr or San antonio?? WHat happened the next yr with those 2 same teams??

do you know???
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holfresh
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4/15/2006  2:34 PM

Bro, if Larry wins 35 games next year it's still a failure, because team would have been exactly where Larry met it two years before....And he got there with nuff drama to go with it....The only way Larry can be a success after this year is 40-45 wins and threaten to get to the second round of the playoffs...Any thing short of that is a failure on a scale never seen in New York....This coming year is huge for that guy and his legacy...Blame Marbs all you want this year...We will see who is the scapegoat next year...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:36 PM]
WOODMANnYk
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4/15/2006  2:44 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Bro, if Larry wins 35 games next year it's still a failure, because team would have been exactly where Larry met it two years before....And he got there with nuff drama to go with it....The only way Larry can be a success after this year is 40-45 wins and threaten to get to the second round of the playoffs...Any thing short of that is a failure on a scale never seen in New York....This coming year is huge for that guy and his legacy...Blame Marbs all you want this year...We will see who is the scapegoat next year...

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:36 PM]


you still did not answer my question... both San antonio and philly finished better than the prior last season..

As a matter of fact, S.A. 21 - 61 one yr, next yr, over 50 wins.. Knicks can do the same..

Not only blaming marbs.. Several people in the organization such as the buffoon owner, the horrible GM and yeah the coach as well is @ fault.

if you have a coach that wants you to play a specific way and you can't do it then the coach will find someone else that will be able to orchestrate his system efficiently on the floor..

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 04-15-2006 2:45 PM]
The Future. GO KNICKS!
holfresh
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4/15/2006  2:55 PM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:
Posted by holfresh:


Bro, if Larry wins 35 games next year it's still a failure, because team would have been exactly where Larry met it two years before....And he got there with nuff drama to go with it....The only way Larry can be a success after this year is 40-45 wins and threaten to get to the second round of the playoffs...Any thing short of that is a failure on a scale never seen in New York....This coming year is huge for that guy and his legacy...Blame Marbs all you want this year...We will see who is the scapegoat next year...

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:36 PM]


you still did not answer my question... both San antonio and philly finished better than the prior last season..

As a matter of fact, S.A. 21 - 61 one yr, next yr, over 50 wins.. Knicks can do the same..

Not only blaming marbs.. Several people in the organization such as the buffoon owner, the horrible GM and yeah the coach as well is @ fault.

if you have a coach that wants you to play a specific way and you can't do it then the coach will find someone else that will be able to orchestrate his system efficiently on the floor..

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 04-15-2006 2:45 PM]



I think you may need to look at David Robinson before you run off to credit Larry Brown with that turn around....You are dreaming if you think it's only Larry's system makes people win and not the players on the court...By the way, the Pistons seems to be orchestrating their offense efficiently without Brown...


You need a franchise player to make those turn arounds..Coaches are not able to have that type of impact without players....



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:56 PM]
WOODMANnYk
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4/15/2006  3:21 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:
Posted by holfresh:


Bro, if Larry wins 35 games next year it's still a failure, because team would have been exactly where Larry met it two years before....And he got there with nuff drama to go with it....The only way Larry can be a success after this year is 40-45 wins and threaten to get to the second round of the playoffs...Any thing short of that is a failure on a scale never seen in New York....This coming year is huge for that guy and his legacy...Blame Marbs all you want this year...We will see who is the scapegoat next year...

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:36 PM]


you still did not answer my question... both San antonio and philly finished better than the prior last season..

As a matter of fact, S.A. 21 - 61 one yr, next yr, over 50 wins.. Knicks can do the same..

Not only blaming marbs.. Several people in the organization such as the buffoon owner, the horrible GM and yeah the coach as well is @ fault.

if you have a coach that wants you to play a specific way and you can't do it then the coach will find someone else that will be able to orchestrate his system efficiently on the floor..

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 04-15-2006 2:45 PM]



I think you may need to look at David Robinson before you run off to credit Larry Brown with that turn around....You are dreaming if you think it's only Larry's system makes people win and not the players on the court...By the way, the Pistons seems to be orchestrating their offense efficiently without Brown...


You need a franchise player to make those turn arounds..Coaches are not able to have that type of impact without players....

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:56 PM]

Oh, so you're saying that David Robinson did it by himself with the Spurs?? Who else do you know on that team?? What about the other team he improved, Philly??? 31 - 51 one yr, next yr(strike shortened season)28 - 22. Next yr after that, 49-33. They went to the NBA finals but weren't a great team. One superstar surrounded with role players

What are you gonna tell me now, "Oh, don't forget, they had Iverson" just know that these teams followed Brown's system and ended up quite successful.
Don't forget the nets, clippers and Nuggets which he coached and did well ...
1009- 798 record as coach..

As for the Pistons, they didn't have a franchise player on their squad, they had role players and please don't tell me billups or any of the wallaces were franchise players...

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 04-15-2006 3:23 PM]

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 04-15-2006 3:33 PM]
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holfresh
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4/15/2006  3:37 PM
Posted by WOODMANnYk:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by WOODMANnYk:
Posted by holfresh:


Bro, if Larry wins 35 games next year it's still a failure, because team would have been exactly where Larry met it two years before....And he got there with nuff drama to go with it....The only way Larry can be a success after this year is 40-45 wins and threaten to get to the second round of the playoffs...Any thing short of that is a failure on a scale never seen in New York....This coming year is huge for that guy and his legacy...Blame Marbs all you want this year...We will see who is the scapegoat next year...

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:36 PM]


you still did not answer my question... both San antonio and philly finished better than the prior last season..

As a matter of fact, S.A. 21 - 61 one yr, next yr, over 50 wins.. Knicks can do the same..

Not only blaming marbs.. Several people in the organization such as the buffoon owner, the horrible GM and yeah the coach as well is @ fault.

if you have a coach that wants you to play a specific way and you can't do it then the coach will find someone else that will be able to orchestrate his system efficiently on the floor..

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 04-15-2006 2:45 PM]



I think you may need to look at David Robinson before you run off to credit Larry Brown with that turn around....You are dreaming if you think it's only Larry's system makes people win and not the players on the court...By the way, the Pistons seems to be orchestrating their offense efficiently without Brown...


You need a franchise player to make those turn arounds..Coaches are not able to have that type of impact without players....

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:56 PM]

Oh, so you're saying that David Robinson did it by himself with the Spurs.. who else do you know on that team?? WHat about Philly??? 31 - 51 one yr, next yr(strike shortened season) 28 - 22.. next yr after that, 49-33.

What are you gonna tell me now, "Oh, don't forget, they had Iverson" just know that these teams followed the Brown's system and ended up quite successful.
Don't forget the nets, clippers and Nuggets which he coached and did well ...
1009- 798 record as coach..

As for the Pistons, they didn't have a franchise player on their squad, they had role players and please don't tell me billups or any of the wallaces were franchise players...

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 04-15-2006 3:23 PM]



If you going to came at me with Larry turning aroud SA, then please don't ommit that fact that David Robinson was drafted that year....Along with him, they traded for Terry Cummings, I think they drafted Sean Elliot in the same year, David Wingate, Knicks gave them Rod Strickland on a platter for Maurice Cheeks who had like 3 games left in him....Willie Anderson was playing allstar type ball at that time....Don't give me that Larry turned it around stuff...


Sheed was the difference in Detroit, they won 50 games 2 consecutive season b4 Larry got there... The Pistion look even better now without Larry and I am rooting for them to win it this year because everyone thought it was all Larry there as well...

Yeah, Iverson is one of the all time greats in teh sport, the east was weak at the time...but lets ignore that, it must be Larry....





[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 3:38 PM]
WOODMANnYk
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4/15/2006  3:58 PM
Detroit will not win it and people will say WOW, larry is the only coach to bring a championship to detriot since chuck daly.. FLip Saunders??? PLEEEESE!!!!..

Even though they got Rasheed on that team, he's not a franchise player.. so there's one for you, Detriot won with no superstars or future hall of famers with LArry..

LArry will do the same for the knicks, bring a championship!!! I hope..

Nice debate man...
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OldFan
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4/15/2006  3:59 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by OldFan:
Thats what everyone says, Larry's track record does not absolve him of his responsibilites toward the outcome this season...I also think you would agree that most people here and everywhere blames Marbury.....

I agree everyone blames Marbury. But you keep saying no-one blames Larry which isn't true. Most people aren't saying LB did a good job this year. But yes - based on a 30 year career with a lot of success most people still think he has a chance to turn it around.


Marbs has not had the history of success.



I say this because the last Marbs blow-up made no mention of Larry being on the front end of that..No one is making a big deal of Larry first taking a shot at Marbury....

He should not get a pass because of his resume as you have suggested....Everyone should be held accountable for their actions...Because Larry has had a good career as a coach does not mean he can say certain things and not be held accountable....


It's amazing that someone who is such a prolific writer - can't seem to read. NO matter how many times poeple say Brown does not get a free pass, you repeat what you think they said and argue with your own statement. I'll say it one last time - then you can continue to argue with yourself. LB does not get a free pass. But Larry's history of success does give him more credibility and going forward most people have more faith in LB then Marbs.


You are taking it a bit literal...I do know that fingers do get pointed at Larry as well...I'm the Chairman of that Committee....When I say that Larry gets a pass, I mean it in a general consensus way....When people look at the Knicks, their first collective thought is that Marbs is the problem not Brown....That perception clearly exist because of Brown's resume and not his body of work this year...That is not right..Just like Larry is being judge by his resume, Marbs is being judged in the same manner...I thought that Brown had a bigger part in the Knicks being bad this year more than anyone else in the organization....The fact that everyone thinks that Brown is the most qualified to turn this thing around does not absolve him of the piss poor job he has done this year...He sucked really hard this year...He was trying to play Marbs at the two when he is clearly the best ball distributor on the team...He had Craw playing the one that took him an entire season to learn...And Craw still can't play the point...When he goes off lately it's because he reverts to the role of a two guard once the ball gets up court, he brings the ball up then run the plays of a two guard..I bet you Larry didn't think fans would notice that...Then he had Lee playing the 3 when he is really a 4...45 plus starting lines..guys starting in their home towns...Vets who should get no playing time eating up vaulable playing time for the rooks...Please, and you tell me trust this guy, he would lead us to the promise land because his resume says so, come on, bro...




[Edited by - holfresh on 04-14-2006 10:54 PM]

Is it that hard to understand? Everyone gets judged on there work experience. That's why resume's exist, that's why people check references. LB will take a hit to his reputation for this year. But most people don't think it out weighs the rest of his career.

It so happens that in your view Marbs has had a good career and Brown apparently has not. Most people don't see it that way. Doesn't mean you're wrong. Just means most people think you are. No matter how many times you post the same arguments you're not going to change anyones mind - just like I won't change yours. Keep it coming though - no one else is postin.
Allanfan20
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4/15/2006  4:21 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Bro, if Larry wins 35 games next year it's still a failure, because team would have been exactly where Larry met it two years before....And he got there with nuff drama to go with it....The only way Larry can be a success after this year is 40-45 wins and threaten to get to the second round of the playoffs...Any thing short of that is a failure on a scale never seen in New York....This coming year is huge for that guy and his legacy...Blame Marbs all you want this year...We will see who is the scapegoat next year...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:36 PM]

Come on, you would seriously be satisfied with that?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
McK1
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4/15/2006  4:26 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by holfresh:


The only way Larry can be a success after this year is 40-45 wins and threaten to get to the second round of the playoffs...Any thing short of that is a failure on a scale never seen in New York....


[Edited by - holfresh on 04-15-2006 2:36 PM]

Come on, you would seriously be satisfied with that?

holfresh must be Marbuury's relative. Mediocrity is the Hope Diamond in his eyes.

Subtract Marbury, add a Rondo or some other selfless defensive minded point to run the team = 45-50 wins and 2nd round at least
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
WOODMANnYk
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4/15/2006  4:30 PM
holfresh is Sebastian telfair in disguise..
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McK1
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4/15/2006  4:44 PM
didn't the Telfairs gave that reporter the dirt on Steph for his book



[Edited by - McK1 on 04-15-2006 4:44 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Allanfan20
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4/15/2006  4:50 PM
Hey man, I'll take Telfair.

All those seasons, when we were getting knocked out in the second round by the Bulls, Pacers, Heat (In '97) I got a little bit more angry each time. 2nd round loss means you're not a contender. I personally wont be satisfied until we are serious contenders and win the championship. '99 was as close to it as we could get, and if Ewing was healthy, I betcha we could have beat the Spurs.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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