[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Tidbids from the taping of SAS's show last night
Author Thread
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

4/13/2006  12:58 AM
I'm not down with getting rid of our best player for a one dimension passing guard...LB must Adapt.

I'm starting to long for the days of one dimensional players. That was always the knock on Houston, but dammit, at least we could count on his one dimension, we knew he could hit a shot.

Nowadays we have all these combo-tweener dudes who are "jack of all trades, masters of none". You can't count on them to be consistent at anything. Give me a master of one thing over a dabbler of many things.
AUTOADVERT
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/13/2006  1:10 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
I'm not down with getting rid of our best player for a one dimension passing guard...LB must Adapt.

I'm starting to long for the days of one dimensional players. That was always the knock on Houston, but dammit, at least we could count on his one dimension, we knew he could hit a shot.

Nowadays we have all these combo-tweener dudes who are "jack of all trades, masters of none". You can't count on them to be consistent at anything. Give me a master of one thing over a dabbler of many things.



Give me a coach who is willing play the game to what best suits the players abilities...Its not giving in to the players, it called common sense....You can still have discipline, ball movement, play tough defense and play uptempo...People here think it's one or the other but that just not the case...It's Larry way or no way...Please...





[Edited by - holfresh on 04-13-2006 01:11 AM]
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

4/13/2006  1:43 AM
Posted by holfresh:


Give me a coach who is willing play the game to what best suits the players abilities...Its not giving in to the players, it called common sense....You can still have discipline, ball movement, play tough defense and play uptempo...People here think it's one or the other but that just not the case...It's Larry way or no way...Please...

That all sounds great but what does that really entail? Keep in mind so many of these guys (Crawford, Curry, Francis, Taylor, Marbury, Malik, James, Jalen) are guys who've been hard to fit into ANY system.

It's one thing to take a difficult to fit guy and work him into a working system. Sometimes that can succeed, sometimes not. Imagine Francis going to San Antonio. Pop wouldn't reinvent his system around Francis, he'd require him to adapt. But in this case your asking brown to invent a system around a bunch of misfits. It's like telling brown you want him to make a reliable car out of an assortment of parts from bicycles, surfboards, boats and airplanes.

Sure, "adapt to your parts" sounds like a lofty ideal, but in this case that's a mishmash.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/13/2006  8:18 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by BlueSeats:
I'm not down with getting rid of our best player for a one dimension passing guard...LB must Adapt.

I'm starting to long for the days of one dimensional players. That was always the knock on Houston, but dammit, at least we could count on his one dimension, we knew he could hit a shot.

Nowadays we have all these combo-tweener dudes who are "jack of all trades, masters of none". You can't count on them to be consistent at anything. Give me a master of one thing over a dabbler of many things.



Give me a coach who is willing play the game to what best suits the players abilities...Its not giving in to the players, it called common sense....You can still have discipline, ball movement, play tough defense and play uptempo...People here think it's one or the other but that just not the case...It's Larry way or no way...Please...

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-13-2006 01:11 AM]
That was Lenny Wilkins... remember him?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/13/2006  8:22 AM
I coach against guys that run and gun even though their teams turn it over 20+ times per game. I love those guys.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/13/2006  8:31 AM
Our second unit runs and normally gets 3 or 4 dunks a game on fast breaks. Any coincidence that they hustle and play d and limit their turnovers?

There is so much talk about "systems" in NY. This is of course media created. What is our system? Share the ball, play D, play hard. Is this a system or a philosophy?

Do you ever notice how Uconn players, Duke players, Arizona players, now Pistons players don't care what system they play in? Anything to do with coaching?

Once you learn how to play ball you can fit in any system. Those players that learned to play ball the AND1 way only know how to play when it's run and gun, or clear outs. The rest of the game, the important stuff, like defense, sharing the ball and playing hard is lost on them. They thinking crossing someone over and making a lay-up is what the game is all about. So they flip out when you try to show them different.We have a team of guys like this. We either need to beat it out of them or get rid of them. The worst thing we can do is give in to them. That's what Lenny, Herb and Don all did. I'm not sure why anyone wants to go back to that era of basketball.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 04-13-2006 08:33 AM]
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/13/2006  12:47 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by holfresh:


Give me a coach who is willing play the game to what best suits the players abilities...Its not giving in to the players, it called common sense....You can still have discipline, ball movement, play tough defense and play uptempo...People here think it's one or the other but that just not the case...It's Larry way or no way...Please...

That all sounds great but what does that really entail? Keep in mind so many of these guys (Crawford, Curry, Francis, Taylor, Marbury, Malik, James, Jalen) are guys who've been hard to fit into ANY system.

It's one thing to take a difficult to fit guy and work him into a working system. Sometimes that can succeed, sometimes not. Imagine Francis going to San Antonio. Pop wouldn't reinvent his system around Francis, he'd require him to adapt. But in this case your asking brown to invent a system around a bunch of misfits. It's like telling brown you want him to make a reliable car out of an assortment of parts from bicycles, surfboards, boats and airplanes.

Sure, "adapt to your parts" sounds like a lofty ideal, but in this case that's a mishmash.



Great coaches do it all the time...And what's this about these guys can't fit into any system, they are professionals, they have fit into systems all their lives before entering the NBA..It's whats gotten them to this level of basketball...There are tons of players who have talent that has not made it to the NBA..What we have here is a coach who is unable or unwilling to adjust to his surroundings...So we are currently trying to fit a square peg in a round hole...So now we have to go look for some square hole type players...Larry Brown was a great coach before he got here..He definately takes a shot in that aura after this year just on the premise he never adjusted to his players....Riles and Jackson were are to do that, Brown hasn't....

Trying to compare Pop and Stevie with what Larry is doing here is nonsense...Pop has proven he can win with his team..Why would anyone change a championship team to accomodate one guy...Larry does not have a championship team....He is currently tryig to build a winning situation here....You just can't compare the two...

How can developing a style that fits your players skillset be a bad thing...How can trying to be creative on offense be bad for a team...Much of the Knicks turnover problems they have this year is trying to make the 5th and 6th pass on offense without any rhytmm or reason...Larry has these guys thinking too much...They are making to passes for the sake of passing and not to try and get the easy baskets on offense...Trying to pin this season on the players and leaving the coach totally in the clear is just not right when assessing this season....



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-13-2006 1:05 PM]

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-13-2006 1:06 PM]
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/13/2006  1:08 PM
Holfresh, your like Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense. Riddle me this, what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/13/2006  1:19 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Holfresh, your like Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense. Riddle me this, what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?



These are young players, they haven't been in the game for 30 years like our beloved coach..Your guy winning one championship in 22 years doesn't not impress me as a person who know how to win in any situation....Big time coaches are able to adapt, why can't your guy do the same?


How is it possible that this is the only team in the league where the players are not able to fit into a system...How is it that 29 other teams are able to have a playing style and the Knicks players are the only one who just don't get it.....




[Edited by - holfresh on 04-13-2006 1:23 PM]
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
4/13/2006  1:25 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

Holfresh, your like Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense. Riddle me this, what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?



These are young players, they haven't been in the game for 30 years like our beloved coach..Your guy winning one championship in 22 years doesn't not impress me as a person who know how to win in any situation....Big time coaches are able to adapt, why can't your guy do the same?


ok, which is it...is it the players that win or the coach? is it the players that win a coach a championship or is it the coach that guides the players to a championship? b/c if you think it has mostly to do with the players, then arguing that brown only won 1 title just means that he didn't have good enough players to win it for him, no? so doesn't that mean the indictment is not on brown?
martin
Posts: 79154
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
4/13/2006  1:28 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

Holfresh, your like Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense. Riddle me this, what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?



These are young players, they haven't been in the game for 30 years like our beloved coach..Your guy winning one championship in 22 years doesn't not impress me as a person who know how to win in any situation....Big time coaches are able to adapt, why can't your guy do the same?


How is it possible that this is the only team in the league where the players are not able to fit into a system...How is it that 29 other teams are able to have a playing style and the Knicks players are the only one who just don't get it.....

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-13-2006 1:23 PM]

I don't mean to be harsh, but this is such a crap arguement. Only won once? How about an NCAA championship? How about just about every team Brown has coached has gotten much better over the long haul.

And seriouly, how many coaches in the NBA have won the championship over the past 20 years? Is Hubie bad? The Czar? Nelson?
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
4/13/2006  1:29 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

Holfresh, your like Johnnie Cochran using the Chewbacca defense. Riddle me this, what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?



These are young players, they haven't been in the game for 30 years like our beloved coach..Your guy winning one championship in 22 years doesn't not impress me as a person who know how to win in any situation....Big time coaches are able to adapt, why can't your guy do the same?


How is it possible that this is the only team in the league where the players are not able to fit into a system...How is it that 29 other teams are able to have a playing style and the Knicks players are the only one who just don't get it.....

[Edited by - holfresh on 04-13-2006 1:23 PM]

I don't mean to be harsh, but this is such a crap arguement. Only won once? How about an NCAA championship? How about just about every team Brown has coached has gotten much better over the long haul.

And seriouly, how many coaches in the NBA have won the championship over the past 20 years? Is Hubie bad? The Czar? Nelson?

and only one guy won it without have AT LEAST one of the top 5 players in the nba and in every case, a top 2 player.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/13/2006  1:43 PM


Don't get me wrong guys, I really don't expect Larry to win anything with this team...But if you are one of the best coaches of all time...How is it possible not to be able to win a few games with this talent...How is it possible that one offesnive system fits all type of players..Does that really makes sense to you...I know you guys defend him without really thinking about what you are reading...But really, does it makes sense that one system fits all players...They can play tough D and be a pass oriented team..but Larry is not the offensive genius that you guys making him out to be....

fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/13/2006  1:44 PM
Look at all the titles won since Daly's Pistons. Every title team except one had the best player in the league, or even 2 of the top 5 players in the league.
MJ/Pippen x6
Hakeem x2
Duncan x3
Shaq Kobe x3
Pistons 1

In 15 years of NBA titles Larry's the only guy to have won one playing team ball and not relying on a superstar, and he was 1 game away from winning 2.

Again... you dodge my orginal question...
what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/13/2006  1:51 PM
Posted by holfresh:



Don't get me wrong guys, I really don't expect Larry to win anything with this team...But if you are one of the best coaches of all time...How is it possible not to be able to win a few games with this talent...How is it possible that one offesnive system fits all type of players..Does that really makes sense to you...I know you guys defend him without really thinking about what you are reading...But really, does it makes sense that one system fits all players...They can play tough D and be a pass oriented team..but Larry is not the offensive genius that you guys making him out to be....

I think its pretty clear LB isnt concerned about winning a few games by letting these guys be comfortable chucking up bad shots and playing lousy D. He wants them playing a style thats proven to win in the NBA, and if they dont screw them. Whats worse is what he's asking for starts with effort. He's not even demanding results, just effort. Look at how erratic Crawford's been yet LB has had nothing but praise for him good game or bad because Jamal is trying as hard as he can.

So yea.. I'm frustrated also, but Larry isnt asking for mastery of the triangle offense.. he's asking for effort first and guys just arent giving it. To me nothing is sadder or more unprofessional. Yea.. LB's sucked this year, so what.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/13/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Look at all the titles won since Daly's Pistons. Every title team except one had the best player in the league, or even 2 of the top 5 players in the league.
MJ/Pippen x6
Hakeem x2
Duncan x3
Shaq Kobe x3
Pistons 1

In 15 years of NBA titles Larry's the only guy to have won one playing team ball and not relying on a superstar, and he was 1 game away from winning 2.

Again... you dodge my orginal question...
what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?



Your question is stupid..the core players on this team are all under 25 years old...Just getting their start in the NBA...So they have not won or loss any meaningful games...That does not mean that running a slow down offense is the right thing to do with an athletic team...

djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
4/13/2006  1:54 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

Look at all the titles won since Daly's Pistons. Every title team except one had the best player in the league, or even 2 of the top 5 players in the league.
MJ/Pippen x6
Hakeem x2
Duncan x3
Shaq Kobe x3
Pistons 1

In 15 years of NBA titles Larry's the only guy to have won one playing team ball and not relying on a superstar, and he was 1 game away from winning 2.

Again... you dodge my orginal question...
what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?



Your question is stupid..the core players on this team are all under 25 years old...Just getting their start in the NBA...So they have not won or loss any meaningful games...That does not mean that running a slow down offense is the right thing to do with an athletic team...


offense was "slowed down" when they couldn't/wouldn't pass the ball around in october. offense was "slowed down" when they turnover the ball every 2-3 possessions. offsense was "slowed down" to accomodated the "slow" learning players we have.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/13/2006  1:57 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by holfresh:



Don't get me wrong guys, I really don't expect Larry to win anything with this team...But if you are one of the best coaches of all time...How is it possible not to be able to win a few games with this talent...How is it possible that one offesnive system fits all type of players..Does that really makes sense to you...I know you guys defend him without really thinking about what you are reading...But really, does it makes sense that one system fits all players...They can play tough D and be a pass oriented team..but Larry is not the offensive genius that you guys making him out to be....

I think its pretty clear LB isnt concerned about winning a few games by letting these guys be comfortable chucking up bad shots and playing lousy D. He wants them playing a style thats proven to win in the NBA, and if they dont screw them. Whats worse is what he's asking for starts with effort. He's not even demanding results, just effort. Look at how erratic Crawford's been yet LB has had nothing but praise for him good game or bad because Jamal is trying as hard as he can.

So yea.. I'm frustrated also, but Larry isnt asking for mastery of the triangle offense.. he's asking for effort first and guys just arent giving it. To me nothing is sadder or more unprofessional. Yea.. LB's sucked this year, so what.


Why do you guys always do that....If some suggest playing uptempo, it automatically means not playing D or passing the ball or trying to fill video on a AND1 tape...Why can't it mean playing D creating turnovers and pushing the ball up with our speed..Again, Larry Brown is not the only guy in the NBA with a blueprint on how to win....

fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
4/13/2006  1:58 PM
last I checked
Marbury
Mo T
Jerome James
QRich
Crawford
Malik Rose
Antonio Davis
are all over 25 years old... pretty sure they were a big part of the core to start the season. Curry's been in the league 4 years to boot.

Maybe your speaking of a different team. Last I checked Frye, Lee, Nate and JAckie werent the problem with this team.

How about just answering the question for your guy Starbury? We can keep it simple for you. Lets see.. you will say Flip right?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

4/13/2006  1:59 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by fishmike:

Look at all the titles won since Daly's Pistons. Every title team except one had the best player in the league, or even 2 of the top 5 players in the league.
MJ/Pippen x6
Hakeem x2
Duncan x3
Shaq Kobe x3
Pistons 1

In 15 years of NBA titles Larry's the only guy to have won one playing team ball and not relying on a superstar, and he was 1 game away from winning 2.

Again... you dodge my orginal question...
what system has these guys played in thats resulted in winning basketball games?



Your question is stupid..the core players on this team are all under 25 years old...Just getting their start in the NBA...So they have not won or loss any meaningful games...That does not mean that running a slow down offense is the right thing to do with an athletic team...


offense was "slowed down" when they couldn't/wouldn't pass the ball around in october. offense was "slowed down" when they turnover the ball every 2-3 possessions. offsense was "slowed down" to accomodated the "slow" learning players we have.



They turn the ball over because they are trying to make the 6th and 7th pass on offense...They are passing up wide open shots to pass the ball to please Brown....
Tidbids from the taping of SAS's show last night

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy