“Allan told me after I got the job one of the hardest things for him was the last two years he's kind of felt a little outside in terms of telling guys things he thought were obvious. He didn't feel like he was included as much. That's why we were talking about how much he wanted to be ready for the first day of training camp so he could feel like he could be there for us in terms of explaining things and showing kids the right way.”

Posted by McK1:

“Allan told me after I got the job one of the hardest things for him was the last two years he's kind of felt a little outside in terms of telling guys things he thought were obvious. He didn't feel like he was included as much. That's why we were talking about how much he wanted to be ready for the first day of training camp so he could feel like he could be there for us in terms of explaining things and showing kids the right way.”

Losing guys like Houston and JYD has probably hurt the Knicks as much as anything else. <sigh>

Posted by Allanfan20:

Maybe he'll give it a try next training camp.

I used to have some problems with Houston and his game and this year has made me appreciate his overall game/effort/style a lot more. Damn knees.

Posted by Bippity10:

I think a lot of people missed the boat on Allan. We all let the contract get in the way. But if you strip away the contract and stop thinking of him as a franchise star there was nothing bad to say about the guy. He brought it every night and would never quit or argue with the coach or biotch about systems. All he would do is lead the way.

Well, he did quit. That's why he retired with 2 years left on his contract. I agree he was a professional but I couldn't give a damn if someone is a jerk or someone knows how to perform fancy bows. Results are everything. The fact of the matter is that the Knicks have sucked big time for nearly 6 years. Marbury got here in Dec. 2003, as well as Isiah. Now not to beat a dead horse but does anyone know the Knick records for both the 2001-2002 and the 2002-2003 seasons? Anybody? Did the Knicks win a championship during those years that I didn't know about. To me the end results have been the same, but if you prefer to drive a Royals rather than a Mustang because you think it is more classy, that's fine with me. But either way you still driving off the cliff everytime.

Once again the point is leadership. We are not a good team and adding Allan Houston to this roster would not make us a good team. No one is under that delusion. But if you can't admit that adding him to this roster instead of any of the money loving vets we have on this roster I have to question if you've ever been on a winning team.

Our young guys have only Malik to look to. That is not enough.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Bippity10:

Once again the point is leadership. We are not a good team and adding Allan Houston to this roster would not make us a good team. No one is under that delusion. But if you can't admit that adding him to this roster instead of any of the money loving vets we have on this roster I have to question if you've ever been on a winning team.

Our young guys have only Malik to look to. That is not enough.

For you guys to try and reinvent Houston is laughable. For the record Houston quit.
My perception of Houston is just different from yours. 1) I thought he was mentally weak. 2) I think he was the king of money hogs. Not for taking the $100 million, hell he would be crazy to not do so. Although other so called leaders have turned down less money to help out he franchise. O'Neal did it this season. My thing with Houston was that he did almost everything to ensure that he wouldn't make it back to the Knicks court. I am still curious how bad those knees are, I see C-Webb still going and I am sure the man is hurting. Kidd doesn't jump like he use to but he is still going. He did not follow any advice of either his doctors or Knicks doctor, rehab on his own and with a high jumper none the less. First and formost if Allan wa the true leader that you and others try to bestow on him, he would have went to his buddy Dolan and say no way do we trade Spree. That Spree and you and me can work out differences but we do not trade him. When Oakley got traded, the press killed Ewing for not doing something but not Allan. When Camby got traded Spree went on and on about that was stupid.

Oh. My. God.

Posted by martin:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Bippity10:

Once again the point is leadership. We are not a good team and adding Allan Houston to this roster would not make us a good team. No one is under that delusion. But if you can't admit that adding him to this roster instead of any of the money loving vets we have on this roster I have to question if you've ever been on a winning team.

Our young guys have only Malik to look to. That is not enough.

For you guys to try and reinvent Houston is laughable. For the record Houston quit.
My perception of Houston is just different from yours. 1) I thought he was mentally weak. 2) I think he was the king of money hogs. Not for taking the $100 million, hell he would be crazy to not do so. Although other so called leaders have turned down less money to help out he franchise. O'Neal did it this season. My thing with Houston was that he did almost everything to ensure that he wouldn't make it back to the Knicks court. I am still curious how bad those knees are, I see C-Webb still going and I am sure the man is hurting. Kidd doesn't jump like he use to but he is still going. He did not follow any advice of either his doctors or Knicks doctor, rehab on his own and with a high jumper none the less. First and formost if Allan wa the true leader that you and others try to bestow on him, he would have went to his buddy Dolan and say no way do we trade Spree. That Spree and you and me can work out differences but we do not trade him. When Oakley got traded, the press killed Ewing for not doing something but not Allan. When Camby got traded Spree went on and on about that was stupid.

Oh. My. God.

Martin, what part of it isn't true. Let me know. Houston, just doesn't get a pass in my book. This team has stink for the last 6 years, new depths this year but yeah face it 1 playoff berth the last 5 seasons.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Phar - You don't know what the team doctors said, b/c THEY never spoke to the media. Houston probably got a million opinions, and him being a smart guy, I'm pretty sure he didn't ignore 1,000,000 doctors opinions.

Spree had already burned his bridges. There was no chance in hell that he was staying, and why should Houston have said he should have stayed. Are they married? No. It's called a business. I don't remember Ewing being killed by the media for that Camby thing either, but if he was, that was unnessessary.

Phar, read these bold words: THE NEW YORK MEDIA IS CLUELSS. THEY GIVE YOU CRAP INFORMATION AND YOU ALWAYS FALL FOR IT. I DON'T THOUGH, B/C I DON'T READ THE SPORTS SECTIONS ANYMORE. IT IS ALLLLL TABLOIDS NOW, INCLUDING THE NEW YORK TIMES!

You have no clue what was going on behind those closes doors.

As for Allan not being able to go on. Are you joking me? Did you see him play at all last season? He could barely run! Let alone jump. He was missing free throws b/c of his knee pains. He couldn't guard a $h*t stain last season. He gave it a go this training camp, and I'm pretty sure that him being a competitive guy, if he felt he really couldn't go, then he couldn't. The microfracture surgery was doomsday for him. I don't blame him or whatever doctors for saying he shouldn't have gotton a second one, b/c the first one f'ed him up enough.

Please think beyond what Mark Berman and Peter Vescey say, b/c the way I see it, they know jack shizat.

True about the media but you can say the same thing for this year. As far as Houston goes I think he had enough influence with Dolan to have these work it out. He didn't want to get involve and he wasn't a big Spree fan anyway. As far as Houston's injury, I fault on him, Layden and Knick doctors for allowing him to call to many of shots. He postponed his surgery, didn't rehab with the Knicks people.

Yeah the Camby trade was a big deal, many people thought that the Knicks showed no loyality to him. Berman took shots at Ewing, people on the WFAN went on and on about how Ewing wasn't loyal. All I am saying is Allan got a pass on the Spree trade and he had a bigger influence with Dolan than Ewing ever had and vice versus.

But hey how many fans feel about Marbury is like how I feel about Houston. No harm no foul.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Phar - You don't know what the team doctors said, b/c THEY never spoke to the media. Houston probably got a million opinions, and him being a smart guy, I'm pretty sure he didn't ignore 1,000,000 doctors opinions.

Spree had already burned his bridges. There was no chance in hell that he was staying, and why should Houston have said he should have stayed. Are they married? No. It's called a business. I don't remember Ewing being killed by the media for that Camby thing either, but if he was, that was unnessessary.

Phar, read these bold words: THE NEW YORK MEDIA IS CLUELSS. THEY GIVE YOU CRAP INFORMATION AND YOU ALWAYS FALL FOR IT. I DON'T THOUGH, B/C I DON'T READ THE SPORTS SECTIONS ANYMORE. IT IS ALLLLL TABLOIDS NOW, INCLUDING THE NEW YORK TIMES!

You have no clue what was going on behind those closes doors.

As for Allan not being able to go on. Are you joking me? Did you see him play at all last season? He could barely run! Let alone jump. He was missing free throws b/c of his knee pains. He couldn't guard a $h*t stain last season. He gave it a go this training camp, and I'm pretty sure that him being a competitive guy, if he felt he really couldn't go, then he couldn't. The microfracture surgery was doomsday for him. I don't blame him or whatever doctors for saying he shouldn't have gotton a second one, b/c the first one f'ed him up enough.

Please think beyond what Mark Berman and Peter Vescey say, b/c the way I see it, they know jack shizat.

True about the media but you can say the same thing for this year. As far as Houston goes I think he had enough influence with Dolan to have these work it out. He didn't want to get involve and he wasn't a big Spree fan anyway. As far as Houston's injury, I fault on him, Layden and Knick doctors for allowing him to call to many of shots. He postponed his surgery, didn't rehab with the Knicks people.

Yeah the Camby trade was a big deal, many people thought that the Knicks showed no loyality to him. Berman took shots at Ewing, people on the WFAN went on and on about how Ewing wasn't loyal. All I am saying is Allan got a pass on the Spree trade and he had a bigger influence with Dolan than Ewing ever had and vice versus.

But hey how many fans feel about Marbury is like how I feel about Houston. No harm no foul.

Phar, you have no reasoning to say that Houston disliked Spree, b/c whenever Allan spoke to the press about Latrell, he said nothing but good things. He always said how things always worked out great between the 2 on the court. In case you didn't know, Dolan HATED Spree and probably still does. And Spree HATED Dolan. There was just no possible way the 2 could co exist in the same organization.

Ewing was unfairly treated by the press and media. Just b/c he got it and didn't deserve it, doesn't mean Allan SHOULD be getting it. He didn't deserve any hard press for Spree getting traded. Did Yao deserve it when Francis got traded? How about Dirk when Nash moved on to Phoenix. Maybe Bibby and Peja when Webber got traded? NO! That's not a valid arguement. Players have NO SAY in the trades, unless their names are Kobe, KG, TD, Shaq, and eventually LeBron.

Houston was and still is apparently, way mistreated by the fans. We deserve nothing from him. He gave us solid to great playoff performances, and big games in big shots, and a breath of fresh air during the toughest times during the Knicks dark ages.

Dude, you're not understanding what the term leader means. And first off, he is no mute, he talks on the court PLENTY. Secondly, you don't have to be vocal to be a leader. Leading by example is a whole other ball game, and that IS what Houston did. Just doing things the right way, the way coach wants, not complaining. It's sometimes even more powerful than being vocal with the team, b/c now you're someone people can look up to, as opposed to being someone guys are scared of (Like Marbury).

Second off, get off that "Let Spree get traded" arguement. Spree was going to get traded no matter what, and as far as I remember, it was Houston was was the best player, not Spree, the past couple of years. Spree became nothing but an erratic jumpshooter, who occasionally made an exciting play. That's where the decline of Spree started. He started losing his speed and overall athleticism, while Houston didn't need it, b/c his game was so mechanical.

Spree burned his bridges with the whole pinky thing, and getting in fights with Dolan and Layden. And again, why should Allan have forced them to not trade Spree who was on the decline anyway? What is being a leader have anything to do with it. Nothing he could have done. Houston is not a franchise superstar, therefore, he has, nor should he, have any say in any of the business decisions.

With that being said, I hated the Spree trade b/c of the player we were getting in return, but if you didn't think he was getting traded, you're delusional. He was all but gone his final season.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Dude, you're not understanding what the term leader means. And first off, he is no mute, he talks on the court PLENTY. Secondly, you don't have to be vocal to be a leader. Leading by example is a whole other ball game, and that IS what Houston did. Just doing things the right way, the way coach wants, not complaining. It's sometimes even more powerful than being vocal with the team, b/c now you're someone people can look up to, as opposed to being someone guys are scared of (Like Marbury).

Second off, get off that "Let Spree get traded" arguement. Spree was going to get traded no matter what, and as far as I remember, it was Houston was was the best player, not Spree, the past couple of years. Spree became nothing but an erratic jumpshooter, who occasionally made an exciting play. That's where the decline of Spree started. He started losing his speed and overall athleticism, while Houston didn't need it, b/c his game was so mechanical.

Spree burned his bridges with the whole pinky thing, and getting in fights with Dolan and Layden. And again, why should Allan have forced them to not trade Spree who was on the decline anyway? What is being a leader have anything to do with it. Nothing he could have done. Houston is not a franchise superstar, therefore, he has, nor should he, have any say in any of the business decisions.

With that being said, I hated the Spree trade b/c of the player we were getting in return, but if you didn't think he was getting traded, you're delusional. He was all but gone his final season.

I will agree to disagree with you on Houston being better than Spree by all accounts I remember most fans, writers saying everything being equal that Houston should be one the traded which was back at the end of the 2001 season, when they lost to the Raptors in the first round but Houston's contract was so unfriendly (hard to believe the guy still remains the 2nd highest player in the NBA ).
If it is about leadership, then you bite one for the team and while you are golfing with Jimmy, you say hey look Spree is a fool but he help us win games. You don't think a guy like Dolan would have listen, you can tell that guy anything if he trust look. Truth was that Spree was pissing off people telling them that they need to trade Houston. As team captain, Houston never went to Spree and said hey man I need to talk to you. Never, well not according to Spreewell. You see sometimes leadership is about attempting to do the right thing rather than stand back and say it wasn't my call.