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Gurantee: Knicks Finish Strong and People Wonder "What Took Them So Long?"
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djsunyc
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3/8/2006  11:28 AM
Posted by misterearl:

Can someone please tell me what playing "hard" is?


wrong forum earl. that's ultimateviagra.com
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misterearl
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3/8/2006  11:31 AM
The Absolutely Positively FINAL Bootleg Post EVER

I Promise (fingers crossed)

Really

With sincere apologies to a much respected writer, shadyhollow1 - 11:15 AM ET March 8, 2006 NYTimes Forum

"You never know when the turning point has arrived. Like that 20 point come from behind victory vs. the Heat in the ‘99 playoff chase.

It could be right now and if we could just envision that every single player, our coach, and our GM...is learning and relearning on the fly, moving through reality on a collision course with fate, and at any given moment the whole thing can and may coalesce into the most beautiful artistic basketball creativity terminating in a NY Knick championship.

It could happen."
once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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3/8/2006  11:35 AM
dj - many thanks. I was getting worried.

Remember 1999!
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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3/8/2006  12:20 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Can someone please tell me what playing "hard" is?

this tells me your watching the games but your not seeing whats happening. Please tell me your not serious. If you think the level of effort the last couple games is the same its been all year you really are lost. This isnt hate, this is the sky is blue on a sunny day.

Maybe fighting over screens. Putting a body on guys when the ball goes up. Actually running hard when you rotate on defense rather than floating over. Busting it back on transition defense. Running hard on offense when you DONT have the ball, trying to create space instead of standing around watching guys go one on one. Trying to deny a pass rather just letting your guy catch it. Getting into passing lanes and hustling back to your man....

These are a few of the tidbits that Malik Rose does all the time and apparently the other Knicks have taken notice off.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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3/8/2006  12:24 PM
Earl.. if you do those things you have less energy to dunk and make exciting cross over dribble moves. Its hard to sustain those things play in and play out. Thats what separates winners from losers in this league. Everyone has talent in this league. Guys that win have the mental toughness to do those things all the time. Our guys dont. Thats why they are all (Malik aside) career losers. I hope hope hope everyone of them changes for whatever reason and can believe enough in their coach and teammates to give that level of effort everynight. Obviously their love of the game isnt enough. Trust me... nobody wants to see these guys change more than myself.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
misterearl
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3/8/2006  8:45 PM
>>Thats why they are all (Malik aside) career losers.

Career losers?

You mean as in no championships? Or lose more than they win?

Didn't Frye play on a decent Arizona team?

Jackie Butler was Mr Basketball in the state of MS

QRich played ojn a Suns team that won a bunch of games

Lee and Nate are rookies so I don't think they are so mentally damaged where they cannot think and perform like winners

Jalen Rose has been in a few playoff games and was Fab in college.

Did I mention Qyntel Woods played in the state footballl championship game with a torn ACL? If that ain't playing "hard" I don't know what is.

Besides, Isiah was a winner, so he should know what one looks like. The bad boys played hard.

The Knicks are on the verge of a turnaround of epic proportions

C'mon, who you gonna invest what remains of your orange and blue faith - me - or that smarmy, smelly and desperately in need of a double flea dip - Sir Scrooge-a-lot - Islesfan?

once a knick always a knick
djsunyc
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3/8/2006  8:55 PM
Posted by misterearl:

>>Thats why they are all (Malik aside) career losers.

Career losers?

You mean as in no championships? Or lose more than they win?

Didn't Frye play on a decent Arizona team?

Jackie Butler was Mr Basketball in the state of MS

QRich played ojn a Suns team that won a bunch of games

Lee and Nate are rookies so I don't think they are so mentally damaged where they cannot think and perform like winners

Jalen Rose has been in a few playoff games and was Fab in college.

Did I mention Qyntel Woods played in the state footballl championship game with a torn ACL? If that ain't playing "hard" I don't know what is.

Besides, Isiah was a winner, so he should know what one looks like. The bad boys played hard.

The Knicks are on the verge of a turnaround of epic proportions

C'mon, who you gonna invest what remains of your orange and blue faith - me - or that smarmy, smelly and desperately in need of a double flea dip - Sir Scrooge-a-lot - Islesfan?

can't go all kool-aid yet misterearl.

after 5 straight years of hope. after 3 straight years of season tickets. after two gm's, 4 coaches, 200 roster moves, and 1/2 a billion spent, all this dj can say is....seeing is believing.

i've whined about steph. ad nauseum.
i've whined about isiah. ad nauseum.

no more whining on my part. <cheer from the peanut gallery>

lb is here. that's all we need.

time to go up the escalators...ALL THE WAY UP...to section 404. sit my rabid ass down in row C, seat 1 and watch it all play out from MY skybox.
misterearl
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3/9/2006  7:53 AM
djsunyc - I would NEVER suggest that anyone drink ALL Kool Ade all the time. That just would be un-New Yorker-like. Knicks fans should be demanding and critical. They should also be willing to back up for a moment, get beyond the immediate and inspect at the context of their ranting and raving.

Changing the fortune of a franchise that has struggled with internal chaos and espionage for decades is not going to change suddenly.

They should also leave any personal bias or preconceptions at the door.

The surgery has been complicated and the patient is in recovery. I credit Dr Dolan for sticking by his recent decisions, and calling Isiah, Larry and the team on the proverbial carpet and reminding them to work out whatever agendas they have to get healthy.

Everyone is on the clock.

So, when you climb into your noble perch in section 404, remember to watch for the signs of health and not just the shaky first steps of a team trying to find its collective voice. This journey should be watched carefully by thoses who claim to be hoops Kung-Fu Masters, and savored for its bright moments

Collective bright moments lead to games like Tuesday night. String enough of those games together and you build trust.

Like I was sayin'

Quentin Richardson for MVP

once a knick always a knick
Allanfan20
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3/9/2006  11:17 AM
Earl, Career losers:

Marbury for not even advancing past the first round, ever, and being on MOSTLY losing teams. Plays hard, but a lot of baggage.

Crawford- Not one winning team. Low IQ underachiever so far.

Curry- Had one winning team and that was last year, and he's a loafer and so far, an underachiever.

James- He sucks

Francis- He's good, but he's got a crap load of baggage.

Mo T- He sucks

Q- Besides the Suns last year, he was on the terrible Clippers, and he played like absolute caca in the playoffs last season.

Woods- Hasn't done anything yet.

Jalen Rose is certainly not a loser, but his defense blows.

The 3 rookies play very hard, and are quite promising, but frequently look lost out there. Nothing is a given for them, just b/c they are promising rookies. They have to earn everything.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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3/9/2006  12:05 PM
Earl I just call it like I see it. When I say career losers I'm talking about NBA players that have spend the VAST majority of their time playing for losing teams. We have been through this before. Forget about the rookies because everyone in the NBA was a great college player (if they played there). But if you really care here's the core of our roster:
Francis: had a couple of first round playoff exits but most his Rocket teams were well below .500 as is his lifetim winning %
QRich: Played on a bunch of loser Clipper teams that never made the playoffs. After the Suns signed him they traded him one year later.
QWoods: played on bad Portland teams and was released. They are still paying his salary
Marbury: 3 first round playoff exits with Suns, Wolves and Knicks. Pretty sure the one year in Pho has been his only winning season since leaving Sota and KG. Lest we forget he was "all alone" in NJ
Crawford/Curry: Played on some of the worst teams the NBA has seen in the horriBulls who not only lost but did so in the fashion we have been all year.
Mo T: loser with Clippers. Signed a big contract with Rockets. Loser there also.
Jerome James: one good playoff series against the Kings, but no need to look past this year if you have questions about his dedication.

Which brings us to our crown jewel: Malik Rose. Self made NBA player. Key role player on championship teams and known throughout the league as high IQ, good locker room guy and great work ethic on and off the court. Anyone watching can see that though...

So loser means you lose more than you win. Some a LOT more.

Hey, I hope they all do something they havent done anywhere else in their career and thats play winning basketball. Larry Brown and Malik are the only guys that have proven over a period of time they understant what it takes to win in this game in this league.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
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3/9/2006  12:20 PM
Which brings us to our crown jewel: Malik Rose. Self made NBA player. Key role player on championship teams and known throughout the league as high IQ, good locker room guy and great work ethic on and off the court. Anyone watching can see that though...

So loser means you lose more than you win. Some a LOT more.

Hey, I hope they all do something they havent done anywhere else in their career and thats play winning basketball. Larry Brown and Malik are the only guys that have proven over a period of time they understant what it takes to win in this game in this league.

Malik Rose crown Jewel? Let's get real here for a second. Malik Rose has benefited greatly from playing alongside Tim Duncan and David Robinson, two of the greatest players ever in the game. That is why he got championships, not because he is "a proven winner". I guess Rasho Nesterovic, Stephen Jackson, and Nazr Mohammed are proven winners now too?

Rose may be a good lockerroom guy. He seems to be a nice person. But his "proven winning traits" haven't done jack for the Knicks. A good team in the NBA cannot be playing the current Malik Rose for significant minutes, even if he did finally put together 3 good games.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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3/9/2006  12:51 PM
dude.. relax and get real. I said he was a great ROLE player and understood what it took to win in the NBA. If you want to ask Nazr if after playing under Pop and next to guys that work like Bowen, Duncan and Manu I'm pretty sure he would say he learned plenty and better understands the mental toughness it takes to win every night. The guys on our roster DONT know that as most have NEVER been in that situation.

The crown jewel comment was a bit of sarcasm. If I knew you were going to respond I would have formatted my comments to sound more like a deposition.

-fishmike
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
misterearl
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3/9/2006  3:53 PM
"The one thing I see is that they've got a lot of talent on this team. When they get to the summer they can try to build the type of team they want."

- Donnie Walsh, native New Yorker and widely-respected GM

fishmike - who you gunna believe - me and Donnie Walsh - or your lyin' eyes?
once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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3/9/2006  3:56 PM
Posted by misterearl:

"The one thing I see is that they've got a lot of talent on this team. When they get to the summer they can try to build the type of team they want."

- Donnie Walsh, native New Yorker and widely-respected GM

fishmike - who you gunna believe - me and Donnie Walsh - or your lyin' eyes?

Cool, can I bring up the GM's and scouts who have told writers that they have no idea what Isiah is doing and that the so called "assets" that he's accumulated aren't thought of highly enough to acquire a top player but only other overpaid and underachieving players.

But why take their unbiased opinions when you can ask Isiah's friend on the record.

[Edited by - islesfan on 03-09-2006 4:02 PM]
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
misterearl
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3/9/2006  4:11 PM
Islesfan - which GMs, that you can attach quotes on what unilateral damage Isiah is doing to the Knicks, have won championships?

What NBA scouts are you quoting?

Have you received any juicy emails from yo' boy Mitch Lawrence today?

Which artificially flavored HaterAde are you guzzling this afternoon - white grape or diet no-passion fruit?



once a knick always a knick
Bonn1997
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3/9/2006  4:30 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Earl I just call it like I see it. When I say career losers I'm talking about NBA players that have spend the VAST majority of their time playing for losing teams. We have been through this before. Forget about the rookies because everyone in the NBA was a great college player (if they played there). But if you really care here's the core of our roster:
Francis: had a couple of first round playoff exits but most his Rocket teams were well below .500 as is his lifetim winning %
QRich: Played on a bunch of loser Clipper teams that never made the playoffs. After the Suns signed him they traded him one year later.
QWoods: played on bad Portland teams and was released. They are still paying his salary
Marbury: 3 first round playoff exits with Suns, Wolves and Knicks. Pretty sure the one year in Pho has been his only winning season since leaving Sota and KG. Lest we forget he was "all alone" in NJ
Crawford/Curry: Played on some of the worst teams the NBA has seen in the horriBulls who not only lost but did so in the fashion we have been all year.
Mo T: loser with Clippers. Signed a big contract with Rockets. Loser there also.
Jerome James: one good playoff series against the Kings, but no need to look past this year if you have questions about his dedication.

Which brings us to our crown jewel: Malik Rose. Self made NBA player. Key role player on championship teams and known throughout the league as high IQ, good locker room guy and great work ethic on and off the court. Anyone watching can see that though...

So loser means you lose more than you win. Some a LOT more.

Hey, I hope they all do something they havent done anywhere else in their career and thats play winning basketball. Larry Brown and Malik are the only guys that have proven over a period of time they understant what it takes to win in this game in this league.
Marbury's actually had four playoff seasons. I'm not sure that # is small enough for me to call him a career loser, especially since the best veteran he's every played with for a full season is probably *Kurt Thomas*. Steve Francis has only had one playoff season, BTW.



[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03-09-2006 4:30 PM]
fishmike
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3/9/2006  4:33 PM
First of all GM's are like movie stars. They never ever ever knock another team's talent, as that would knock another team's GM. Find me any quote anywhere from any GM where he clearly says a team lacks talent and ISNT an expansion team.

Second the thing that jumps out at me from Donnie's quote is that the Knicks are making major changes this summer.

Last I checked the only team worse than us is the expansion team. Is that a lie? Last I checked Isiah's won loss record is worse than Layden's. Is that a lie also?

Keep buying tickets Earl. Your Jimmy D's wet dream.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
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3/9/2006  6:10 PM
dude.. relax and get real.

Did my statement strike you as an excited one? I think you are the one who needs to relax.
I said he was a great ROLE player and understood what it took to win in the NBA. If you want to ask Nazr if after playing under Pop and next to guys that work like Bowen, Duncan and Manu I'm pretty sure he would say he learned plenty and better understands the mental toughness it takes to win every night. The guys on our roster DONT know that as most have NEVER been in that situation.


I really don't need you to restate (And change) what you wrote. I read and understood it.
The crown jewel comment was a bit of sarcasm.

Sure it was.
If I knew you were going to respond I would have formatted my comments to sound more like a deposition.

It would be nonsense no matter how you formatted it.
-fishmike

oohah

P.S. Breathe....

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
misterearl
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3/9/2006  6:36 PM
fishmike - Record, schmecord - sometimes, you gotta take a step back to take two steps forward.

If you want to continue to point out a cumulative record, that's cool.

If you want to compare the Knicks, and their record, to that of the Charlotte Bobcats, that's cool too

The counter-point is more about watching change as it happens during tthis season. Sometimes, in its subtleness, change is not measured in a won or loss as Larry Brown talks about playing "the righht way"

If the Knicks continue to play the rest of the season with the verve, hustle and unselfishness, of the last four games (as I predict they WILL), what is the real problem?

Do you believe in miracles?



[Edited by - MisterEarl on 03-09-2006 6:59 PM]
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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3/9/2006  6:57 PM
Posted by oohah:
dude.. relax and get real.

Did my statement strike you as an excited one? I think you are the one who needs to relax.
I said he was a great ROLE player and understood what it took to win in the NBA. If you want to ask Nazr if after playing under Pop and next to guys that work like Bowen, Duncan and Manu I'm pretty sure he would say he learned plenty and better understands the mental toughness it takes to win every night. The guys on our roster DONT know that as most have NEVER been in that situation.


I really don't need you to restate (And change) what you wrote. I read and understood it.
The crown jewel comment was a bit of sarcasm.

Sure it was.
If I knew you were going to respond I would have formatted my comments to sound more like a deposition.

It would be nonsense no matter how you formatted it.
-fishmike

oohah

P.S. Breathe....
smartest message poster ever.. who can argue? who would want to?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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