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The more things change the more they stay the same with Isiah
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crzymdups
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2/6/2006  11:01 PM
Posted by islesfan:


Again, who said that Layden was a good GM and deserved to stay???

Layden traded his current picks, not picks in the future the way Isiah has. That means that whoever followed Layden had all of his picks to help rebuild but whoever follows Isiah will not have that luxury. Is this a really difficult concept to understand?

You're acting like Isiah created the cap problem. he did not, he got here and Eisley and Anderson and Houston and KVH had years to go on their contracts and that alone would have kept them over the cap. He had no talent to deal, he only had expiring contracts and a mandate from Dolan to make the playoffs.

I asked you at the beginning of this thread: why is it that the majority of the top teams in the league did not use cap space to build their squads?

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McK1
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2/6/2006  11:01 PM
Curry has a more serious problem than a reconstructed knee
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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2/6/2006  11:03 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by jaydh:

if you thought we were going to be a much better team, then you were kidding yourself....weak.

hey, before the season started, the worst everyone around here thought this team would do is around 40 wins. most people were at .500 or in the 45-47 win range. we did win 33 games last year and with lb, we all thought we would improve by AT LEAST 7 wins.

this year has been an utter unmitigated dissapointment. from the top to the bottom.
you can be an isiah supporter/hater, lb supporter/hater, or a marbury supporter/hater...whatever you are, NOBODY thought it was going to look this bad.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 02-06-2006 11:00 PM]

yeah, well, Marbury had played in 280 consecutive games. The season isn't over yet. I think this team will turn it around once Marbury returns. I'm NOT saying playoffs, I'm saying they will be playing very well to end the season and have some momentum going into next year.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 02-06-2006 11:15 PM]
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jaydh
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2/6/2006  11:03 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by jaydh:

if you thought we were going to be a much better team, then you were kidding yourself....weak.

hey, before the season started, the worst everyone around here thought this team would do is around 40 wins. most people were at .500 or in the 45-47 win range. we did win 33 games last year and with lb, we all thought we would improve by AT LEAST 7 wins.

well that was crazy.. most people here overhype our players too. if you thought, having nate, and/or lee in the SL most the time, curry who hadnt played in a while and was out of shape, AD as our starting PF, and steph having to adjust was going to make us around a .500 team, thats just plain dumb.

crzymdups
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2/6/2006  11:04 PM
Posted by McK1:

Curry has a more serious problem than a reconstructed knee

Thanks, doc. It's weird that every other doctor he's ever met has cleared him to play, but I'm glad you feel the need to buy into media BS that isn't founded in any fact. Thanks again.
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McK1
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2/6/2006  11:08 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by McK1:

Curry has a more serious problem than a reconstructed knee

Thanks, doc. It's weird that every other doctor he's ever met has cleared him to play, but I'm glad you feel the need to buy into media BS that isn't founded in any fact. Thanks again.

You do know Reggie Lewis was cleared to play by doctors.

Curry's diagnosis hasen't been refuted. He's been cleared to play with it lord willing
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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2/6/2006  11:11 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by McK1:

Curry has a more serious problem than a reconstructed knee

Thanks, doc. It's weird that every other doctor he's ever met has cleared him to play, but I'm glad you feel the need to buy into media BS that isn't founded in any fact. Thanks again.

You do know Reggie Lewis was cleared to play by doctors.

Curry's diagnosis hasen't been refuted. He's been cleared to play with it lord willing

Actually, doc, they put together a team of 12 cardiovascular docs, a "super team" it was called and they told Lewis to never pick up a basketball again and retire. Lewis had to go to a second round of doctors to get clearance. He died the next time he practiced.

That same super team of doctors cleared Eddy Curry to play. So it sounds a little different. Just slightly.
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McK1
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2/6/2006  11:15 PM
Paxson's doctors didn't clear him ace. Curry has visited two teams of doctors as well. He and Isiah listened to the ones who said what they wanted to hear.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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2/6/2006  11:18 PM
Posted by McK1:

Paxson's doctors didn't clear him ace. Curry has visited two teams of doctors as well. He and Isiah listened to the ones who said what they wanted to hear.

Paxson's "doctor" in fact did clear him, but recommended genetic testing that would have been non-conclusive. Coincidentally, that doctor ran a genetic testing research lab and wanted more sample data for his flow charts. Coincidentally, genetic profiling is illegal in 42 states in America, including New York.

Again, the super team of doctors who told Lewis "NO" told Curry "YES." One of the doctors from the team out in LA said the two situations were completely different.
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McK1
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2/6/2006  11:24 PM
do you have a link to an article stating he was cleared to return by the Bulls' doctors?
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Nalod
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2/6/2006  11:27 PM
DR. Isiah done "cleared" Eddie!

SlimPack
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2/6/2006  11:35 PM
Posted by McK1:

do you have a link to an article stating he was cleared to return by the Bulls' doctors?

I'll find the link later but I can tell you right now that curry was cleared to play by every doctor, there was just one who suggested that he take a dna test, it was paxson's decision not to play curry becuase he refused the doctors recommendation, but unlike reggie lewis curry was cleared to play by every doctor, if curry had hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, he'd be dead by now, although I suppose its possible that he has something else that caused the arrythmia.
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2/6/2006  11:39 PM
Posted by McK1:

do you have a link to an article stating he was cleared to return by the Bulls' doctors?

http://games.espn.go.com/cgi/fba/playernewsarchive?statsId=990

if you go to where it says july 5th it says so there, but if you need more proof, and I could understand if you do, then hold on a sec while I go find another article.
McK1
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2/6/2006  11:50 PM
It says OK to resume physical activity. It was fine for him to work out with his trainer. Nowhere does it state he was cleared to play
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
crzymdups
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2/6/2006  11:57 PM
Posted by McK1:

It says OK to resume physical activity. It was fine for him to work out with his trainer. Nowhere does it state he was cleared to play

www.google.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Curry
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Arrhythmias/tb/1843
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0B1EFC35540C758CDDA90994DD404482&n=Top%2fNews%2fSports%2fColumns%2fWilliam%20C%20Rhoden

the best article is the nytimes one, but you have to pay for it. the wikipedia article shows that he was cleared to play on June 24, 2005 and Paxson demanded a genetic test.

also, if you can find it, fish put together a great post with all the truth and misinformation surrounding the issue back in october sometime.
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crzymdups
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2/6/2006  11:58 PM
also, hey what do you know, Utah and Minnesota won some close games tonight. The heat is on, Denver!
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SlimPack
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2/7/2006  12:09 AM
Posted by McK1:

It says OK to resume physical activity. It was fine for him to work out with his trainer. Nowhere does it state he was cleared to play

okay based upon what I found out, curry wasn't cleared to play by the bulls doctor, Dr. marin, in part becuase he thought the results were incomplete without a DNA test, however he was cleared by an LA docter, dr. cannom, who is a leading cardioland our doctors, who both thought that the DNA test wasn't neccesary. so you were right that he wasnt cleared by the first docter but based upon all I've read it was for a different reason than lewis, lewis was diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, curry never was, the bulls doctor however thought it was necesary to find out if he was suseptible to it. so It not exactly the same as Reggie lewis and hank gathers. oh well make what you want out of it, but I still think its unfair to say that he has a potentially fatal heat condition becuase in non of the articles that I read did it say that he was never diagnosed with it.

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2005/09/dna-contractual-showdown-looming-eddy.html
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-060111bullsbits,1,7567991.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

Rich
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2/7/2006  12:13 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by McK1:

It says OK to resume physical activity. It was fine for him to work out with his trainer. Nowhere does it state he was cleared to play

www.google.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Curry
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Arrhythmias/tb/1843
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0B1EFC35540C758CDDA90994DD404482&n=Top%2fNews%2fSports%2fColumns%2fWilliam%20C%20Rhoden

the best article is the nytimes one, but you have to pay for it. the wikipedia article shows that he was cleared to play on June 24, 2005 and Paxson demanded a genetic test.

also, if you can find it, fish put together a great post with all the truth and misinformation surrounding the issue back in october sometime.

Sports of The Times; Curry's Health Has Become a League Matter

By WILLIAM C. RHODEN (NYT) 995 words
Published: October 6, 2005

DAVID STERN, the N.B.A. commissioner, is out of the country and out of touch. But when he returns, he will have a minor tempest on his hands: a 22-year-old player named Eddy Curry has an unspecified heart issue.

Curry was a high school star drafted by the Chicago Bulls in 2001. Last season, he came on strong and became a major factor in helping the Bulls rediscover themselves. But just when the team needed him, Curry was hospitalized with heart problems.

This summer, the Bulls asked Curry to take a more rigorous genetic test as a condition of continued employment. The DNA test could determine if he is at risk of a potentially fatal heart condition. He refused to take the test, and now he is a Knick.

This is a new variation on the N.B.A. physical farce, in which a player can fail a physical examination based on a bad knee. In this case, however, the Bulls backed off because of a player's heart condition, and a rival scooped him up.

Curry is a siren song for the Knicks, who desperately need that one big-time player, that one stud, to pull them to the next level. He is a talent who could save a team president's job and make a new coach's task easier. Curry could be the Knicks' ticket to the playoffs.

But what is the cost of that ticket?

The N.B.A. has to step in and encourage, if not implore, Curry to take the more sophisticated test. The league cannot rely on the Knicks.

Curry was in New York yesterday to take a battery of tests, but not the genetic one that the Bulls wanted. He arrived at the Knicks' training camp in Charleston, S.C., last evening and submitted to more tests.

Stern has to step in. You have two smart organizations, the Bulls and the Knicks. But the Knicks are desperate, and they should not make Curry a part of any desperate measures to improve.

The N.B.A. is treating this as a sort of states-rights issue, a Knicks thing. The league must intercede and encourage Curry to take the genetic test. If something happens, it won't be a Knicks problem or a Curry family problem, but rather an N.B.A. problem. The league should work out an arrangement with the players union to have Curry take the test and assess what type of risk, if any, he faces if he continues to play professional basketball.

Isiah Thomas, the Knicks' president, told reporters Tuesday that too many people were speculating and jumping the gun on the nature of Curry's condition.

The truth is, nobody knows about Curry's condition.

Maybe we are jumping the gun, but many of us lived through the Reggie Lewis tragedy. I still have vivid recollections of the game in which Lewis, the Celtics star, collapsed. And I still remember the chilling news reports when he later died.

We lived through the tragedy of Hank Gathers, the nation watching in horror as he dunked during a conference tournament game and collapsed and died two hours later. I remember the somber plane ride with his teammates from Los Angeles to the funeral in Philadelphia. The crowded church, his mother, the family, the circle of friends.

I remember sitting in Susie Gary's North Chicago living room days after she buried her 16-year-old grandson, Devon Mills, who collapsed and died after practice because of an undiagnosed heart ailment.

From high school to the N.B.A., many of the issues have not changed in the past 10 to 15 years. How best to test? In 1994, in the wake of sudden deaths, the questions were the same: Can more be done to detect hidden and potentially fatal heart conditions? What will it cost? When is a condition threatening enough to declare someone unfit for athletic competition? Who should make that decision?

As many as 200 to 300 high school and college athletes may die of sudden cardiac death each year in the United States, with a third caused by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, according to Barry J. Maron, a Minneapolis cardiologist and leading authority on the condition. The condition is largely inherited and is estimated to affect 1 in 500 people. Death is uncommon.

After Lewis's death in 1993, Luther T. Clark, now the chief of cardiology at the State University of New York Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn, said that there was another factor to consider beyond medical tests.

''Athletics is a dream that a lot of people have,'' Clark said. ''You can do a lot with millions of dollars. That is the human side of the problem.''

In a telephone interview last night, Clark said that because the financial stakes had grown so drastically, teams and leagues must show restraint.

''Although the athlete's desire to play may be the most important thing to them,'' Clark said, ''their health should be the major consideration.''

Eddy Curry might well have been one of those young athletes who went through the system with heart problems that didn't surface until he had played several years of pro ball. And we still don't know the answer to this question: What, if anything, is wrong with Curry?

What caused him to miss the playoffs, just when the Bulls needed him? Could it cost him his life? The Knicks need to win. Eddy Curry can help.

This season, fans, coaches and Stern will all watch Curry and the Knicks with a sense of trepidation. But the N.B.A. should step in now, before the season even begins. Seven months is a long time to hold your breath.
crzymdups
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2/7/2006  12:15 AM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by McK1:

It says OK to resume physical activity. It was fine for him to work out with his trainer. Nowhere does it state he was cleared to play

okay based upon what I found out, curry wasn't cleared to play by the bulls doctor, Dr. marin, in part becuase he thought the results were incomplete without a DNA test, however he was cleared by an LA docter, dr. cannom, who is a leading cardioland our doctors, who both thought that the DNA test wasn't neccesary. so you were right that he wasnt cleared by the first docter but based upon all I've read it was for a different reason than lewis, lewis was diagnosed with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, curry never was, the bulls doctor however thought it was necesary to find out if he was suseptible to it. so It not exactly the same as Reggie lewis and hank gathers. oh well make what you want out of it, but I still think its unfair to say that he has a potentially fatal heat condition becuase in non of the articles that I read did it say that he was never diagnosed with it.

http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2005/09/dna-contractual-showdown-looming-eddy.html
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-060111bullsbits,1,7567991.story?coll=cs-bulls-headlines

A DNA test wouldn't have been conclusive. Someone dig up that Fish thread, he put together all the info.

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crzymdups
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2/7/2006  12:17 AM
here's the Fish thread. this thread was awesome.

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=11676

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The more things change the more they stay the same with Isiah

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