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Players united against Larry?
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nyk4ever
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2/2/2006  11:14 AM
Posted by fishmike:

your waaaay off. Exclude the rookies. Take a closer look:
Malik Rose - Spurs were always good. Great role player for great teams
AD - Pacers and Tor were always very good teams
---losers---
Marbury - 3 years with Min were followed by horrific years with NJ. One good year w/ Marion and Amare in Pho followed by a terrible one.
Crawford - never had a winning season, and those Bulls teams were among the worst in the league
Mo T- loser w/ Clippers (put up good numbers), loser with Rockets
Curry - part of horrible teams for 3 years. Had 2/3s of a winning season last year
QRich - Loser w/ Clippers (good numbers) one good year with Suns
Jerome - Sonics sucked until 50 win season last. Every other year a loser
QWoods - scrap heap guy from loser Blazers teams

And there aside from your rookies (include Butler/Ariza) is the core of this team. Every guy for the majority of his career has been in losing situations. Some like Crawford, Curry, Mo T and QRich were on some of the worst teams in the NBA.

This team is a bunch of guys who have spent their careers playing losing basketball, with the exception of Rose, Antonio and a bunch of kids.

So oohah and others can knock Larry all they want but I'm looking at a roster of guys that havent won dick in their whole career, and DONT play fundamental basketball. I guess asking guys to take care of the ball and play D means LB has done a bad job. He should have been telling them to take as many shots as they possibly can and have some fun.

Sorry... looking at LB's track record and the record of the guys on this roster I'm siding Larry. Right now the only guys that seemed to have realized that Larry knows more than them are Marbury, QWoods, Antonio and Malik. The rest have their heads in their arses

Awesome post Fish!! I agree fully. I still don't understand the people that put the onus on the coach when none of these players that truly matter on this team have never even come close to winning anything.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 02-02-2006 11:18 AM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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tkf
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2/2/2006  11:18 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by Nalod:

Isiah needs to be tough with his players.

He needs to let them know HE hired Brown and what Larry wants is what HE wants.

This is Isiahs coach, and if Isiah is not backing him 200% then Isiah is most incompetent and a full of lies!

These whining soft divas of players are getting on my nerves! Now they are uncoachable? WTF?

And we are blaming Larry for this?

Is eddie working too hard? Jerome working at all? Craw too dumb? Nate too funny? Marbs offends too easy? What is it with this group!

Funny thing is, with the exception of Craw and a few others these guys have all been on winning teams.

Larry is a winner (historically) and just won the ring a few seasons ago.

Steph led Pheonix to a winning record and to the playoffs in the big bad west only to get knocked off by the mighty Spurs.

Malik with the Spurs

AD (although aging) on the Pacers and Raptors (when the Raptors was a playoff team with a winning record)

Curry on last season's Bulls

Q Rich on the Suns

Big Game as a starter for the Sonics (who had a great year last season!)

These guys should definitely be playing better than having one of the worst records in the league in my opinion.

Then on the other hand.....

Mo T is a different story, I don't think he has won anywhere actually.

Q Woods hasn't been on a winning team has he? Not sure if he reall ever got much playing time anyway.

Crawford has always been on a loosing team.

Are those 3 enough to bring the team down to the basement of the NBA? Do they have the skills? I think so. Are they coachable? I think so.

Only players left are the college guys and they all had good careers in college and so far are adjusting well to the NBA.

Something is not adding up.

But then again, I am willing to wait because when it all began we were continuously warned that Larry Brown teams usually lose before they win. So.....we shall see.
your waaaay off. Exclude the rookies. Take a closer look:
Malik Rose - Spurs were always good. Great role player for great teams
AD - Pacers and Tor were always very good teams
---losers---
Marbury - 3 years with Min were followed by horrific years with NJ. One good year w/ Marion and Amare in Pho followed by a terrible one.
Crawford - never had a winning season, and those Bulls teams were among the worst in the league
Mo T- loser w/ Clippers (put up good numbers), loser with Rockets
Curry - part of horrible teams for 3 years. Had 2/3s of a winning season last year
QRich - Loser w/ Clippers (good numbers) one good year with Suns
Jerome - Sonics sucked until 50 win season last. Every other year a loser
QWoods - scrap heap guy from loser Blazers teams

And there aside from your rookies (include Butler/Ariza) is the core of this team. Every guy for the majority of his career has been in losing situations. Some like Crawford, Curry, Mo T and QRich were on some of the worst teams in the NBA.

This team is a bunch of guys who have spent their careers playing losing basketball, with the exception of Rose, Antonio and a bunch of kids.

So oohah and others can knock Larry all they want but I'm looking at a roster of guys that havent won dick in their whole career, and DONT play fundamental basketball. I guess asking guys to take care of the ball and play D means LB has done a bad job. He should have been telling them to take as many shots as they possibly can and have some fun.

Sorry... looking at LB's track record and the record of the guys on this roster I'm siding Larry. Right now the only guys that seemed to have realized that Larry knows more than them are Marbury, QWoods, Antonio and Malik. The rest have their heads in their arses


I'm siding Larry

me too..

Right now the only guys that seemed to have realized that Larry knows more than them are Marbury, QWoods, Antonio and Malik. The rest have their heads in their arses

That is why those guys get the playing time, and as of late Q woods..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Knight
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2/2/2006  11:22 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Knight:

^It's not just the anonymous sources, we get a sense of frustration and the idea that the team has quit straight from Larry's mouth.

what would be really funny is this: the source _could_ have been Larry himself. What is your take on that situation if it were true? How about Isiah?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was Herb or an assistant coach who reported that to Larry. I still think the only person with the balls to say it would be Marbury since he knows Larry really can't do anything about it.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Bippity10
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2/2/2006  11:26 AM
thanks Fish and TKF: Some sanity finally.

I'm cool with the players quitting on Larry. That just makes Zeke's job easier. Instead of trying to figure out who to keep and who to trade, he can just get rid of all of them and we can bring in some proven winners who understand that winning is about playing basketball the right way.

I just hope that people will like me
McK1
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2/2/2006  11:29 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Then again this was the story for some of the Pistons b4 some of them got to Detroit.

it may be true for a couple but not damn near the entire roster and definitely not for 4/5 of the starting 5.

Rasheed. 2 WCF's appearances. 2 60 win seasons

Chauncey. playoffs every year in Minny. won 50 in Minny.

Rip. Wiz were terrible. however he was the star on the UCONN team that won the title

Big Ben. believe he was on both the Bullets team that made the play-offs with C-Webb and on Doc's Magic team that went to the play-offs.

Prince. freash off a national title with Kentucky.



the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Knight
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2/2/2006  11:31 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Then again this was the story for some of the Pistons b4 some of them got to Detroit.

it may be true for a couple but not damn near the entire roster and definitely not for 4/5 of the starting 5.

Rasheed. 2 WCF's appearances. 2 60 win seasons

Chauncey. playoffs every year in Minny. won 50 in Minny.

Rip. Wiz were terrible. however he was the star on the UCONN team that won the title

Big Ben. believe he was on both the Bullets team that made the play-offs with C-Webb and on Doc's Magic team that went to the play-offs.

Prince. freash off a national title with Kentucky.

Yes, they have players who came from great programs with a lot of college experience, that makes a huge difference.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
TheloniusMonk
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2/2/2006  11:34 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

thanks Fish and TKF: Some sanity finally.

I'm cool with the players quitting on Larry. That just makes Zeke's job easier. Instead of trying to figure out who to keep and who to trade, he can just get rid of all of them and we can bring in some proven winners who understand that winning is about playing basketball the right way.

I agree. But at the same time even a proven winner has to check his ego at the door. Some of these guys, so far, have not. Truthfully, I'll take hard working players who have talent, but have never won, over 'stars' anyday. Kinda like Detroit. They were all loosers but got together and made the commitment to play hard every night reguardless. Kind of like the old Ewing golden era Knicks.

'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
McK1
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2/2/2006  11:39 AM
why do you keep erroneously insinuating the Pistons bunch were "all losers"

even the ones who were traded for Wallace came from winning programs.

Corliss - star of national title winner Arkansas. playoffs in Sac.

Sura - he and Cassell formed one of the best college backcourts and put FSU on the map. Cleveland was a perennial play-off team.

Atkins was a CBA product but he played on the Magic and went to the play-offs prior to being traded to Detroit.

[Edited by - McK1 on 02-02-2006 11:40 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TheloniusMonk
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2/2/2006  11:40 AM
We have some players that have come from good programs as well. As for Chauncey, he has played on bad teams in his career plus he bounced around the league. Big Ben (undrafted) bounced around the league. Corliss Williamson...another journeyman. Lindsey Hunter, another guy who is a good role player but wasn't considered a leader plus he was traded a few times around the league as well. Rip was a part of a bad NBA team as well. Rasheed is a great great player but had worn out his welcome in Portland and was getting booed by the homecrowd. Ummmm who else? Elden Campbell....Darvin Ham....Darko (who may never get it). But at the same time when they came to Detroit they made a commitment to PLAY HARD and the right way blah blah blah. My point is I'd take a bunch of players who never were considered winners as long as they put the effort out their that Knick teams before them have.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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2/2/2006  11:46 AM
When I say 'winners' I mean on the NBA level.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
McK1
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2/2/2006  11:48 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

We have some players that have come from good programs as well. As for Chauncey, he has played on bad teams in his career plus he bounced around the league. Big Ben (undrafted) bounced around the league. Corliss Williamson...another journeyman. Lindsey Hunter, another guy who is a good role player but wasn't considered a leader plus he was traded a few times around the league as well. Rip was a part of a bad NBA team as well. Rasheed is a great great player but had worn out his welcome in Portland and was getting booed by the homecrowd. Ummmm who else? Elden Campbell....Darvin Ham....Darko (who may never get it). But at the same time when they came to Detroit they made a commitment to PLAY HARD and the right way blah blah blah. My point is I'd take a bunch of players who never were considered winners as long as they put the effort out their that Knick teams before them have.

My point is they were never losers and for the most part played for winning teams.

Campbell won in LA and Charlotte.

Hunter won in LA. He was on a few good Piston teams as well when they had Hou and Grant.

they are vets who know how to fulfill a specific role so they maintain value.

If Jerome James was half the player Elden Campbell was at 36 NY would be a much better team. If Crawford or Nate had half of Hunters defensive ability or court savvy, NY would be a much better team. There is no comparison with the Pistons, what West has done in Memphis or what Pax has done in Chicago. They target players with a reputation of playing hard and having a mind for the game. Isiah targets guys built for the Rucker.

[Edited by - McK1 on 02-02-2006 11:48 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bippity10
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2/2/2006  12:00 PM
You don't even really need a lot of winners on the team. What you need is a couple leaders who are winners and echo what the coach says. Then the players regardless of talent level will play hard every night and at least attempt to do the right thing.

As much as we all hated the Shanvis Eisleyspoon led teams, led by Allan, Spree and KT this team at least attempted to win each night. Right now we have a bunch of young guys that think that playing the right way is a magic formula built out of regular rotations, not understanding that regular rotations are a magic formula built from playing the right way.
I just hope that people will like me
Knight
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2/2/2006  12:01 PM
Isola going to be on with B. Tierney today to talk about his article. BT called him a good writer and a good guy who we have no reason to not believe...
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Bippity10
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2/2/2006  12:04 PM
So agian the question becomes, is this an indictment of the hall of fame coach or of the underachievers?
I just hope that people will like me
tkf
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2/2/2006  12:20 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

When I say 'winners' I mean on the NBA level.

yea, but it is more than that, I meang guys who have a winning spirit Elton Brand was in a lot losing situations, now look at him, and I doubt even in his losing days in the NBA people would lable him a loser, he won at duke and has the heart of a lion. The knicks don't have that, Frye had a good career at Arizona, a winning team, nate took the Huskies to the elite 8, David lee's team overachieved in the SEC and won the SEC title, I think there is hope for these guys, I also feel the same way with curry, he was a big reason why the bulls turned it around last year, but you can't take these young guys and surround them with guys who don't have a winning mentality. What I think hurts the knicks more is that IT put this team together with too many guys who have the same problems, that to me does not work, you need to have some guys who are still good enough, but have that winning mentality, Elton Brand types of guys. We just don't have that... Guys are complaining, and I wonder why? ariza wants a sit down with larry? for what? Learn how to play ariza and then ask for a sit down. craw wants to play a more unbridled style, fine, play some defense and I am sure LB can live with some of your wild shots.... We ask why is Q richardson getting playing time although he is shooting bricks. Just look at how he has defended Lebron and Kobe, the guy plays like he at least gives a damn on defense....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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2/2/2006  12:42 PM
> So agian the question becomes, is this an indictment of the hall of fame coach or of the underachievers?

Bippity - you rock. That is a treemendous question.

Let me thinkn about that a minute.

Damn, that is a great question.
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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2/2/2006  12:51 PM
Posted by misterearl:

> So agian the question becomes, is this an indictment of the hall of fame coach or of the underachievers?

Bippity - you rock. That is a treemendous question.

Let me thinkn about that a minute.

Damn, that is a great question.
mr earl... let me help. Dont know if you have ever built a car, go cart, motorcycle, etc... but picture this:
You have a lot of pieces. You have a motor thats run very strong in every car its been. You dig up a bunch of other parts. You build your car but it runs like crap. What are you looking to fix/replace first? The motor or the other parts?

I wont get on you as I know you hold this roster in pretty high esteem. I will agree with your sentiment that the talent is certainly better than 13-30. But teams that win titles defend, rebound and take care of the ball. What is Larry Brown asking of the players that is resulting in the 13-30? And most importantly why cant they do it?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knight
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2/2/2006  12:54 PM
^The main problem according to the players is that Larry needs to simplify how they defend the pick and roll--sounds like AD communicated this so I expect the changes to be made and for the team to make a playoff push.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
TMS
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2/2/2006  12:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by misterearl:

> So agian the question becomes, is this an indictment of the hall of fame coach or of the underachievers?

Bippity - you rock. That is a treemendous question.

Let me thinkn about that a minute.

Damn, that is a great question.
mr earl... let me help. Dont know if you have ever built a car, go cart, motorcycle, etc... but picture this:
You have a lot of pieces. You have a motor thats run very strong in every car its been. You dig up a bunch of other parts. You build your car but it runs like crap. What are you looking to fix/replace first? The motor or the other parts?

I wont get on you as I know you hold this roster in pretty high esteem. I will agree with your sentiment that the talent is certainly better than 13-30. But teams that win titles defend, rebound and take care of the ball. What is Larry Brown asking of the players that is resulting in the 13-30? And most importantly why cant they do it?


solution... find a new mechanic who knows what the hell he's doing & has built fast cars before. (& no, i'm not bashing LB)

[Edited by - TMS on 02-02-2006 12:57 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Nalod
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2/2/2006  1:37 PM
Posted by Knight:

^The main problem according to the players is that Larry needs to simplify how they defend the pick and roll--sounds like AD communicated this so I expect the changes to be made and for the team to make a playoff push.

Make it easier?

Use Stick figures? International graphic signs? Use a beeping ball? Use velcro for those who can't tie their shoes?
Use a regular clock instead of a digital (how to tell time)? Teach reezy that before he gets his "GT" he gotta hit a jump shot?
Tell Nate laughing at funerals is not funny?

Why is this so hard for these guys? Can they practice it on PlayStation?
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