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Knicks new starting forward: Qyntel Woods
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BRIGGS
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1/29/2006  11:17 AM
Posted by martin:

[quote]Posted by fishmike:

For all our great young talent (and its better that not having any) we dont have one guy thats proven he can be a starter, much less a cornerstone.

I guess patience is the key and we all know that you can't turn around potential talent in 40 games not less 2 years.

I was thinking of the Detroit lineup again. Wallace, Weed, Prince, Rip, Chancey. For _many_ years of their careers each had been labelled as some degree of bad or not playable at a primetime level. Was it the orignal talent of each guy, was it not the right coaching, was it a bad fit at the time? Who knows. They all seem to be OK these days.


What they did there was an incredible job of bringing the right fit together as a unit. We have some pieces but we have some serious change in store. This is getting ahead of ourselves, someone saying we have a top 5 core? How many blowouts this year?

Id like to find an example of a bad club that was kept together that became and STAYED good.
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franco12
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1/29/2006  11:25 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:

[quote]Posted by fishmike:

For all our great young talent (and its better that not having any) we dont have one guy thats proven he can be a starter, much less a cornerstone.

I guess patience is the key and we all know that you can't turn around potential talent in 40 games not less 2 years.

I was thinking of the Detroit lineup again. Wallace, Weed, Prince, Rip, Chancey. For _many_ years of their careers each had been labelled as some degree of bad or not playable at a primetime level. Was it the orignal talent of each guy, was it not the right coaching, was it a bad fit at the time? Who knows. They all seem to be OK these days.


What they did there was an incredible job of bringing the right fit together as a unit. We have some pieces but we have some serious change in store. This is getting ahead of ourselves, someone saying we have a top 5 core? How many blowouts this year?

Id like to find an example of a bad club that was kept together that became and STAYED good.


Memphis w/ Hubie- to an extent the Bulls last year.

Seattle last year.

Pistons.

I'm just saying that this team is better than its record, and that there have been flashes of how this team can develop into a good team.

I'm not calling it a championship team- but next year I would hope we're at least 500 and somewhat consistent.
Bonn1997
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1/29/2006  11:26 AM
This is getting ahead of ourselves, someone saying we have a top 5 core?

Who said we had a top 5 core Briggs? Did you misread my statement?

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 01-29-2006 11:28 AM]
Bonn1997
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1/29/2006  11:27 AM
Memphis w/ Hubie- to an extent the Bulls last year.

Seattle last year.

Pistons.
You beat me to it. There are plenty of examples. The Memphis one is the best one. They in fact gave up the #2 draft pick as well as having a 30 win team only to come back with a 50 win team.
martin
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1/29/2006  11:28 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:

[quote]Posted by fishmike:

For all our great young talent (and its better that not having any) we dont have one guy thats proven he can be a starter, much less a cornerstone.

I guess patience is the key and we all know that you can't turn around potential talent in 40 games not less 2 years.

I was thinking of the Detroit lineup again. Wallace, Weed, Prince, Rip, Chancey. For _many_ years of their careers each had been labelled as some degree of bad or not playable at a primetime level. Was it the orignal talent of each guy, was it not the right coaching, was it a bad fit at the time? Who knows. They all seem to be OK these days.


What they did there was an incredible job of bringing the right fit together as a unit. We have some pieces but we have some serious change in store. This is getting ahead of ourselves, someone saying we have a top 5 core? How many blowouts this year?

Id like to find an example of a bad club that was kept together that became and STAYED good.

didn't mean to give the impression that each was a keeper, but Isiah has upgraded the talent across the board and now the organization needs to right-fit the club - I think you would agree with me that you can't really do each at the same time and get a perfect match at every turn. Realistically a team like Detroit was build over a 5 year time span, and let's be real, they had a good dash of luck along the way.

Someone mentioned a big 2-guard who can drill the open shot - that's something the Knicks really need. I like a combo of Nate, Lee, Frye, Butler, Ariza, Crawford off the bench as secondary players who could possibly move into the starting role and who each could become starting players if they each kill their biggest weakness. The Knicks need a weakside PF who can clean glass, block shots and get garbage points.... can Frye/Lee improve enough to fill that role?

It's a damn shame we don't have pick this year, cause we would all be cheering for the Knicks to lose more often (OK we'd be cheering quietly in the warm confines of an empty room with TV hookup). It's not, so we had better all hope that our current talent and/or expiring contracts help us out.
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fishmike
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1/29/2006  11:33 AM
Okay, fishmike. Work with me a moment...
no.. and here's why: You dont look at the whole picture. You look at before and after like these guys are a pack of basktball cards and there was no cost attached to them.

You say money doesnt matter it does. I dont care what Dolan spends, but the more bad contracts attached to mediocre players you put on your roster the harder it is to make trades. Nobody wants half the cap fodder crap we have.

I'm very happy we got Curry. But you act like Isiah pulled him out of a hat. Curry cost us 4 draft picks, at least one of which is looking like it will be VERY costly.

While its nice that the talent *appears* to have been upgraded the cost of this group assembled has been exorbitant to say the least.

Why do you choose to ignore this? Why do you ignore that no other team good or bad operates this way?

Lets face it... right now we are all sitting around praying that Larry Brown turns poop into chocolate for us, because thats what we have right now.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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1/29/2006  11:37 AM
there's a HUGE difference between what detroit did and what we are doing...

they built their team around defense. we did not.

it would be a completely different story if we had dalembert here instead of frye. it would be a completely different story if we had pietrus here instead of q1 or nate.

when a team is built around defense, they have a shot to hang in every game. finding offense on the free agent market is easy. finding defense is not. our future frontcourt right now, eddy and frye are possibly the worst defensive frontcourt in the league. they are not monster rebounders nor anything close to shotblockers. can they become decent to good rebounders? yes. can they become defensive stoppers or shot blockers? in all honesty, they'll get better but not good enough to change games. some of it is just internal and all the coaching in the world can't change it.

so if you're frontcourt is not a defensive minded one...how far can we legitimately go?

we do not have jordan, pippen, and rodman - not every can. but we also don't have a sheed/ben, duncan, hakeem, dikembe, ewing, or even shaq on the defensive side of the ball.
BRIGGS
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1/29/2006  11:41 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

In 2 years, did you expect Isiah to go from having the 30th best young core to a top 5 young core? I think going from 30th to about 15th was the most we could have reasonably expected.

who is our top 5 young core?
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Bonn1997
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1/29/2006  11:47 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bonn1997:

In 2 years, did you expect Isiah to go from having the 30th best young core to a top 5 young core? I think going from 30th to about 15th was the most we could have reasonably expected.

who is our top 5 young core?

Sorry, you must have misunderstood. I said we went from about top 30 to about top 15 and was pointing out that expecting to go from top 30 to top 5 would be ridiculous.
misterearl
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1/29/2006  11:54 AM
>Earl, Bonn, I have to say that I admire your energy guys. While I agree with most of what you say (high 90% range), how do you find the time in your day to refute of the bs that gets thrown around here?

Junkmein - Hell if I know. I think I was just bored on a rainy weekdend day and ddin't feel like going to the gym.

I'm amazed that so much time is spent casting stones at Curry, Frye, Woods and Marbury as the starts and stops of ANY normal growth process take place.

Certainly, we all want instant results in the win column but that ain't always the way it happens. The roster is composed of individuals who have played together for five months.

Watching a child take first baby steps does not instantly turn into a sprint.

Some people have never dealt with that
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gunsnewing
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1/29/2006  12:34 PM
How are we suppose to win without defense and the flexibility to go after defensive minded players?
BigC
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1/29/2006  1:50 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BigC:

Woods has game. He can create his own shot and can hit the outside jumper. He also has ball handling skills. The Blazers let him play point a few times when he was there. He also can rebound when given minutes.

Oh nice, you saw him with POR? He was released/traded for off the court stuff, right?

He played point? That's interesting.

I really don't get your point! Again what does this have to do with his game?

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BigC
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1/29/2006  1:52 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BigC:

Woods has game. He can create his own shot and can hit the outside jumper. He also has ball handling skills. The Blazers let him play point a few times when he was there. He also can rebound when given minutes.

Oh nice, you saw him with POR? He was released/traded for off the court stuff, right?

He played point? That's interesting.

I really don't get your point! Again what does this have to do with his game?
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martin
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1/29/2006  1:53 PM
Posted by BigC:
Posted by martin:
Posted by BigC:

Woods has game. He can create his own shot and can hit the outside jumper. He also has ball handling skills. The Blazers let him play point a few times when he was there. He also can rebound when given minutes.

Oh nice, you saw him with POR? He was released/traded for off the court stuff, right?

He played point? That's interesting.

I really don't get your point! Again what does this have to do with his game?

I was just interested in finding more info on QWoods in his POR days.
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BigC
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1/29/2006  2:00 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by martin:
Posted by BigC:

Woods has game. He can create his own shot and can hit the outside jumper. He also has ball handling skills. The Blazers let him play point a few times when he was there. He also can rebound when given minutes.

Oh nice, you saw him with POR? He was released/traded for off the court stuff, right?

He played point? That's interesting.

I really don't get your point! Again what does this have to do with his game?

I was just interested in finding more info on QWoods in his POR days.

I think the kid can play, but in Portland it was difficult for him to get real minutes because they were stacked at the sf position. With Patterson and Miles on that team is is hard to earn minutes. Remember this was also a time when Miles was complaining about minutes. Travis Outlaw is another talent on the Blazers team that should get more opportunities to shine, but he doesn't.

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bigbeast
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1/29/2006  3:49 PM
First off, I originally started the Free Woods thread, so you know how I feel about him. Whats most encouraging during this early stage is that he hardly has any plays run for him. (except when he circle through the lane for the allye-oop) Hopefully, Brown will gain more confidence in him an start devising some plays for him. I would like to see him curl off some screens which would give him the option to catch and shoot or curl into the lane.

Knicks haven't had legit SF production since King. No saying Q is going to be the next Bernard, but if he can be a consistent double figure scorer, this definietly helps down the road. The philly game as an aboration. All the key players were off. Marbury, Curry, craw and frye who usually carry the load were off.
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Knicks new starting forward: Qyntel Woods
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