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the official playoff seeding thread
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firefly
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1/4/2006  7:15 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by oohah:

What counts is your overall record!

so Memphis is better than Miami? memphis better than the cavs? Bucks are better than Utah? Bucks are better than the clippers? just to name a few....



[Edited by - jaydh on 01-04-2006 6:59 PM]


I would say so, yes. The whole point of a league format is that the team at the top of that league has proved to all that they are the best team in that league. Over an 82 game season, luck and injuries (with certain exceptions ie a 12 month layoff to your superstar) even out over each team. If we win every game for the rest of the season, and wind up with the bast record, we WILL be the best.

So, yeah. If Memphis have a better record then Miami, you have to say they have a better team.
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jaydh
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1/4/2006  7:16 PM
Posted by firefly:


So, yeah. If Memphis have a better record then Miami, you have to say they have a better team.


but then why does Memphis have so much trouble when they play Miami?
oohah
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1/4/2006  7:19 PM
but then why does Memphis have so much trouble when they play Miami?

Because Miami is a tough matchup for Memphis. These individual relationships between two teams only matter in a series.

How do you decide what teams are best in the league? Does it change from night to night depending on who is playing who?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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1/4/2006  7:24 PM
so Memphis is better than Miami? memphis better than the cavs? Bucks are better than Utah? Bucks are better than the clippers? just to name a few....

Probably. They play in different divisions so the relative strength of schedule is not equal. But the gap between the teams you mentioned is not enormous like the Suns/Knicks.
i guess Miami outscoring memphis by 19 was a fluke.. i guess the bucks losing to utah twice(once by 20) was also a fluke, as well losing to the clippers by 24.

No it is not a fluke. This is the NBA we are talking about. Any team can beat any other team on a given night.

Also, can you describe the individual factors of each game? Amount of rest, injuries, etc.

I think you are reading way too much into indvidual games.

What is your method of ranking teams?

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 01-04-2006 7:27 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
McK1
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1/4/2006  7:24 PM
it seems the highs and lows of an 82 game NBA season is a new phenomena to jaydh.



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jaydh
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1/4/2006  7:26 PM
Posted by oohah:
but then why does Memphis have so much trouble when they play Miami?

Because Miami is a tough matchup for Memphis. These individual relationships between two teams only matter in a series.

The point is, Memphis may have a better record, but are in no way a better team.
Posted by oohah:

How do you decide what teams are best in the league? Does it change from night to night depending on who is playing who?

Record will obviously dictate who goes into the playoffs, but all i'm saying is just because a team has a better overall record, it doesnt make them better than a team they cant beat who has a worse record.
McK1
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1/4/2006  7:29 PM
yes it does

the Hawks beat San An. Are they a better team than the Spurs or were they just better that night
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
oohah
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1/4/2006  7:30 PM
Record will obviously dictate who goes into the playoffs, but all i'm saying is just because a team has a better overall record, it doesnt make them better than a team they cant beat who has a worse record.

When you are comparing the Knicks to the Suns record certainly does dictate who is a better team.

***

A few years ago when the Cavaliers had the worst record in the league, they also had the Nets' number. The Nets just could not beat them! That year was the second time the Nets went to the finals I believe.

By your reckoning, that year the Cavaliers were a better team than the Nets I guess.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 01-04-2006 7:35 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
SlimPack
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1/4/2006  7:34 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by oohah:
but then why does Memphis have so much trouble when they play Miami?

Because Miami is a tough matchup for Memphis. These individual relationships between two teams only matter in a series.

The point is, Memphis may have a better record, but are in no way a better team.
Posted by oohah:

How do you decide what teams are best in the league? Does it change from night to night depending on who is playing who?

Record will obviously dictate who goes into the playoffs, but all i'm saying is just because a team has a better overall record, it doesnt make them better than a team they cant beat who has a worse record.

I disagree I think the measure of how good a team is should be how well they do against every other team in the nba, not against a particular team, if memphis can beat other teams in the nba on a more consistent basis than miami can than I think that makes them the better team, according to your method, the wizards are the best team in the nba becuase a couple of weeks ago they beat detroit, I dont think thats true.
jaydh
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1/4/2006  7:35 PM
Posted by oohah:
Record will obviously dictate who goes into the playoffs, but all i'm saying is just because a team has a better overall record, it doesnt make them better than a team they cant beat who has a worse record.

When you are comparing the Knicks to the Suns record certainly does dictate who is a better team.

***

A few years ago when the Cavaliers had the worst record in the league, they also had the Nets' number. The Nets just could not beat them! That was the second time the Nets went to the finals I believe.

like i said, i believe a team can have a worse record, but can still be a better team when compared to a team with a better record if the team with the better record just cant beat them.
jaydh
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1/4/2006  7:37 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by oohah:
but then why does Memphis have so much trouble when they play Miami?

Because Miami is a tough matchup for Memphis. These individual relationships between two teams only matter in a series.

The point is, Memphis may have a better record, but are in no way a better team.
Posted by oohah:

How do you decide what teams are best in the league? Does it change from night to night depending on who is playing who?

Record will obviously dictate who goes into the playoffs, but all i'm saying is just because a team has a better overall record, it doesnt make them better than a team they cant beat who has a worse record.

I disagree I think the measure of how good a team is should be how well they do against every other team in the nba, not against a particular team, if memphis can beat other teams in the nba on a more consistent basis than miami can than I think that makes them the better team, according to your method, the wizards are the best team in the nba becuase a couple of weeks ago they beat detroit, I dont think thats true.


i never used that Detroit example.. i picked my examples carefully, like Bucks having a better record than Utah, yet the bucks lost twice to them already, once by 20. Utah is not better than the Bucks? If utah played them again, you would bet the Bucks to win since they have a better record?
SlimPack
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1/4/2006  7:37 PM
well oohah's example was better than mine, anyway I think our style just counters the sun's style for reason's that only an nba coach would know
oohah
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1/4/2006  7:38 PM
like i said, i believe a team can have a worse record, but can still be a better team when compared to a team with a better record if the team with the better record just cant beat them.

Like the Cav/Nets I described? Worst record in the league VS. NBA finalist?

Rule of thumb: If you have to do mental gymnastics to make it right then it probably is not right.

For the record I think Miami is better than Memphis. Shaq was injured for a lot of games. There are a lot of factors involved. Memphis just got worse losing Stoudemire. Record is not the end all.

But be reasonable please.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
martin
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1/4/2006  7:39 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by oohah:
Record will obviously dictate who goes into the playoffs, but all i'm saying is just because a team has a better overall record, it doesnt make them better than a team they cant beat who has a worse record.

When you are comparing the Knicks to the Suns record certainly does dictate who is a better team.

***

A few years ago when the Cavaliers had the worst record in the league, they also had the Nets' number. The Nets just could not beat them! That was the second time the Nets went to the finals I believe.

like i said, i believe a team can have a worse record, but can still be a better team when compared to a team with a better record if the team with the better record just cant beat them.

i wish there was another game cause conversations like this are seriously lacking. Holy Moly.
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SlimPack
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1/4/2006  7:48 PM
Posted by jaydh:




i never used that Detroit example.. i picked my examples carefully, like Bucks having a better record than Utah, yet the bucks lost twice to them already, once by 20. Utah is not better than the Bucks? If utah played them again, you would bet the Bucks to win since they have a better record?

I think certain styles of basketball and team matchup's are more effective against certain others than they are against the rest of the nba, but I still think how good a team is should be based on how consistently they can beat any given team in the nba, not how consistently they can beat any particualar team even if that particular team has a better record.
but anyway to answer your question, I dont know, I guess I would choose the jazz, but I dont know what the circumstances surrounding the jazz's two wins were, did the bucks have an injury, were they on a roadtrip or whatever..., but I would still pick the bucks to beat any given team at any given night over the jazz, which is why I think they should be considered the better team.


[Edited by - slimpack on 01-04-2006 7:50 PM]
crzymdups
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1/5/2006  12:05 AM
Knicks are only four games out of the playoffs now as Chicago, Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana, Orlando and Charlotte all lost tonight.

Making the playoffs is just a matter of staying healthy and playing a consistent rotation and playing hard every night. This team has the talent.
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SlimPack
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1/5/2006  12:13 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

Knicks are only four games out of the playoffs now as Chicago, Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana, Orlando and Charlotte all lost tonight.

Making the playoffs is just a matter of staying healthy and playing a consistent rotation and playing hard every night. This team has the talent.

you know, maybe we can make the playoffs. do you why? becuase now that orlando has lost to the raptors the current 8th seed in the east is the boston celtics, who are 3rd in the atlantic divison. The east really sucks this year, if all we have to do is get the third place spot in the atlantic to make the playoffs then maybe us making the playoffs isnt as farfetch'd as I thoguht it was.
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1/5/2006  12:14 AM
Knicks are only four games out of the playoffs now as Chicago, Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana, Orlando and Charlotte all lost tonight.
Making the playoffs is just a matter of staying healthy and playing a consistent rotation and playing hard every night. This team has the talent.

You're absolutely right, the Knicks making the playoffs is not entirely far-fetched, which show just how poor the atlantic and southeast divisions are.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
crzymdups
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1/5/2006  12:15 AM
Posted by oohah:
so Memphis is better than Miami? memphis better than the cavs? Bucks are better than Utah? Bucks are better than the clippers? just to name a few....

Probably. They play in different divisions so the relative strength of schedule is not equal. But the gap between the teams you mentioned is not enormous like the Suns/Knicks.
i guess Miami outscoring memphis by 19 was a fluke.. i guess the bucks losing to utah twice(once by 20) was also a fluke, as well losing to the clippers by 24.

No it is not a fluke. This is the NBA we are talking about. Any team can beat any other team on a given night.

Also, can you describe the individual factors of each game? Amount of rest, injuries, etc.

I think you are reading way too much into indvidual games.

What is your method of ranking teams?

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 01-04-2006 7:27 PM]


The bottom line is it's WAY too early to rank teams according to record. Obviously, Detroit is playing the best ball right now, but the season is a MARATHON and there's a reason only a handful of teams have won 70 games.

For middle of the pack teams, I'd say even teams 5-7 games over .500 or 5-7 games under .500 right now, it's too early to tell what their final record will be. Teams get better and worse throughout the season. Players learn to play together, slump, get injured, get traded. The season is far too volatile right now. I think there's been a different 8 seed every day of the week this far in the East.

It's far too early. Too early to write the Knicks off. Too early to say anyone but the top 4 seeds in either conference are playoff locks. Last year at this time the Knicks were 16-14 and we were all crowing about getting the 3 seed in the East. Nothing major happened to the Knicks, Nazr tweaked his groin and Allan Houston's cameo ended and the season went into a tail spin.

Right now, judging teams by their record or how they've played against one another is a little premature. Obviously, trends have been established but they are by no means the way things will be at year end.

Can anyone tell me what the playoff teams in the East will be? I'll give you a nickel if you're right.
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crzymdups
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1/5/2006  12:20 AM
Posted by oohah:
Knicks are only four games out of the playoffs now as Chicago, Philly, Milwaukee, Indiana, Orlando and Charlotte all lost tonight.
Making the playoffs is just a matter of staying healthy and playing a consistent rotation and playing hard every night. This team has the talent.

You're absolutely right, the Knicks making the playoffs is not entirely far-fetched, which show just how poor the atlantic and southeast divisions are.

oohah

yeah, the East is wretched. Milwaukee is going to struggle without TJ Ford. Orlando sucks. Washington has serious issues. Chicago has issues. Who knows whether Indiana will make a trade of Artest that makes them better this year or sets them up for next year? Philly is decent, but we beat them when we weren't even playing that well. Charlotte and Toronto, well, I hope the Knicks are better than those teams. Though I am interested to see how we match up with Toronto.

The playoffs should not be farfetched for this team at all. Even with this start. The Knicks should treat this start as a wake up call. Now Curry seems to be getting comfortable, Marbury and Crawford know their roles, the rookies are playing smart and well.
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