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Coach Brown taking shots @ his pg.
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Marv
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12/30/2005  11:27 AM
Posted by YoungSpike:

i Think Nash's assist numbers would go down in this system. He is not the best at running the half court, and no one is going to rack up the assist dumping the ball to JJ in the post. Also the Bobcats' front line is a lot better then the one the knicks have been able to field for the most part. Brevin is top ten in assist but i would not say he was a top ten PG. Who did the Bobcats draft again???

But this is the point. Nash doesn't just dump the ball into the post. And I absolutely do not believe that LB is dictating that that's all he wants Marbs to do.
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joec32033
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12/30/2005  11:31 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Outside of Crawford, Curry and Marbs there isn't a finisher on the roster. And Craw and Marbs are also asked to distribute. This really hurts us. You know you don't have finishers when you are asking your PG's to be perfect set-up men for them to score.



I still think that Marbury should play a scoring role at the one, and Crawford should play a distributer at the 2 (if you want to say Steph at the 2 and Craw at the one so be it) Marbury is our best scorer...asking him to distribute on this team is like asking a parapalegic to riverdance and makes about as much sense. Craw distributing would help where he can satelite towards the 3 point line and use his 3 point shot more efficiently, while Steph scoring more and focusing less on getting people involved would make him better (plus the connection Eddy and Craw have may help our post game alot better with Craw getting Eddy the ball in more comfortable positions).
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jaydh
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12/30/2005  11:31 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by YoungSpike:

i Think Nash's assist numbers would go down in this system. He is not the best at running the half court, and no one is going to rack up the assist dumping the ball to JJ in the post. Also the Bobcats' front line is a lot better then the one the knicks have been able to field for the most part. Brevin is top ten in assist but i would not say he was a top ten PG. Who did the Bobcats draft again???

But this is the point. Nash doesn't just dump the ball into the post. And I absolutely do not believe that LB is dictating that that's all he wants Marbs to do.


i do, i think LB wants the ball dumped down to curry(maybe not JJ) every time, especially early in the game.
rojasmas
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12/30/2005  11:33 AM
I'll give you another guy. Chris Paul. He has singlehandedly turned that team from one of the worst in basketball to almost mediocre. He gets it done. David West from Teaneck, never did anything before this year. Now he is legit. Why? Paul is playing with him. Marbs doesn't have that affect on a team. He is not special, he is good. For 20 million he should be special.
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jaydh
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12/30/2005  11:34 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

I'll give you another guy. Chris Paul. He has singlehandedly turned that team from one of the worst in basketball to almost mediocre. He gets it done. David West from Teaneck, never did anything before this year. Now he is legit. Why? Paul is playing with him. Marbs doesn't have that affect on a team. He is not special, he is good. For 20 million he should be special.


well, if marbs can last in LBs system, then by the time he is making $20mil he will definately be something special. hes got 2 years before he makes $20mil
YoungSpike
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12/30/2005  11:40 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by YoungSpike:

i Think Nash's assist numbers would go down in this system. He is not the best at running the half court, and no one is going to rack up the assist dumping the ball to JJ in the post. Also the Bobcats' front line is a lot better then the one the knicks have been able to field for the most part. Brevin is top ten in assist but i would not say he was a top ten PG. Who did the Bobcats draft again???

But this is the point. Nash doesn't just dump the ball into the post. And I absolutely do not believe that LB is dictating that that's all he wants Marbs to do.

It does not seem that he wants him to do what he is best at. I watched Marbs turn Nazr into some one people felt had a chance at playing backup in the all-star game (which said more about the 5 spot in the east, but still true) by driving the ball to the hop and handing it off when Mohammed's man came to defend, and if Mohammed could catch or not have to rebound his own missed lay up Steph would have led the NBA in assist between that and the pick and roll with Kurt. I just want Brown to put the ball back in his hands let him drive to the basket more, let him create that way that’s what he is good at and that’s what he has been doing since high school. This team is not built for the type of O Larry is trying to run.
Nalod
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12/30/2005  11:45 AM
Lets not even go into the argument about Marbs vs. Kid or Nash. Marbs is a SG no matter how many assists he has averaged. He touches the ball every posession, so he is gonna get them on his kick outs.

Reezy runs and can finish on a break. We can run run run! Marbs can't or won't transition either way. Our rebounders are not required to start a break. Why? We don't get back on defesne, and our turnovers are too high as it is. Marbs won't release on the break. He should be the finisher! He can't pass it up!

Marbs at point is stupid.
YoungSpike
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12/30/2005  11:45 AM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by rojasmas:

I'll give you another guy. Chris Paul. He has singlehandedly turned that team from one of the worst in basketball to almost mediocre. He gets it done. David West from Teaneck, never did anything before this year. Now he is legit. Why? Paul is playing with him. Marbs doesn't have that affect on a team. He is not special, he is good. For 20 million he should be special.


well, if marbs can last in LBs system, then by the time he is making $20mil he will definately be something special. hes got 2 years before he makes $20mil

I could look around the NBA and pick a player better at their position at every spot on the team. I just want the coach to play to his players strong points
Bippity10
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12/30/2005  11:46 AM
Posted by rojasmas:

I'll give you another guy. Chris Paul. He has singlehandedly turned that team from one of the worst in basketball to almost mediocre. He gets it done. David West from Teaneck, never did anything before this year. Now he is legit. Why? Paul is playing with him. Marbs doesn't have that affect on a team. He is not special, he is good. For 20 million he should be special.

This is what I don't understand. Let's say management decides that they think Travis Knight should not be sitting at home but is actually a franchise player that can lead us to a title. They go out and offer him a 5 year $120 million contract. He accepts. Would you really expect Travis to now lead us to a title because he signed the contract? Did you expect him to turn it down? Of course not. Who should you really be angry with. The player for accepting the contract and not being what management expects them to be. Or management for offering the contract in the first place. If Travis Knight proclaimed himself to be the best center in the league would you expect him to then go out and magically produce wins or would you laugh it off and then wonder why management is not signing better players so that Travis can fill the role that he is meant for, which is towel boy?

How is Marbury any different? It doesn't matter how much the silly contract is worth. It doesn't matter. What matters is that he is not a franchise player. Management is dumb enough to think he is. They were dumb enough to think Allan was. But the players would have been dumb to turn the contracts down. Let Marbs be who he is. A great scorer who can help you win if you stop building around him and actually build a team in which he can perform the role he is best suited for.

I do not hate Marbs for not being what we and management mistakingly assume he should be when the contrat was offered.
I just hope that people will like me
YoungSpike
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12/30/2005  11:52 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Lets not even go into the argument about Marbs vs. Kid or Nash. Marbs is a SG no matter how many assists he has averaged. He touches the ball every posession, so he is gonna get them on his kick outs.

Reezy runs and can finish on a break. We can run run run! Marbs can't or won't transition either way. Our rebounders are not required to start a break. Why? We don't get back on defesne, and our turnovers are too high as it is. Marbs won't release on the break. He should be the finisher! He can't pass it up!

Marbs at point is stupid.

I think he is a point, I think he is by far the best point on this team. Is he a pass first point like a lot of people want him to be no, but can the points the people want him to be score like him if they tryed… NO. i think Larry will find a way to make it work, i don't see the two going any where any time soon.
jaydh
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12/30/2005  12:00 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Marbs at point is stupid.

well, considering no one else on our team is better at PG, i dont see how you can make that statement.
BlueSeats
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12/30/2005  12:29 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Bippity10:


We need guys that can put the ball in the basket. It doesn't amtter if you have Jason Kidd, if he is passing the ball to Malik Rose and Antonio Davis and a batch of career 39% shooters than you aren't winning. You'll notice that NJ has surrounded Kidd with finishers. There is a reason for this.


Bip, I wonder a little about this. Look at Kenyon Martin's performance with Kidd and then with Miller. Night and day. Look at Vince on Toronto and then with Kidd (granted he was faking in Toronto). I have a feeling Kidd would be finding Frye, Curry, Ariza, Nate, Crawford, Lee (if he got PT), even Richardson and James for a lot more baskets.

Thoughts?


i dont think our problem is finding these guys. our problem is that these guys rarely hit the open shot(Qrich especially, sometimes he cant get more open).

Isn't it the story of Marbs career, that guys aren't hitting their jumpers?

Did anyone notice Richard the gazzelle Jefferson in the Olympics being constantly set up for 20 footers? With Kidd it's layup after layup.

Tim Duncan could never quite position himself right to get a good entry feed from Steph and was called for one offensive foul after another.

How about the splendid chemistry displayed between Steph and Marion and Amare, who he played with for two years. Yeah, I saw no signs of chemistry either. They couldn't hit their jumpers...

Surround Steph with a bunch of perimeter players maybe you have a change at mediocre or above play, like when he first came here. Surround him with athletes, like on the Suns and the Olympics, and you can watch for him to "single handedly" try to beat the opposition, like against the Spurs or international competition.
Bippity10
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12/30/2005  12:36 PM
Well Kidd would make our team better than Steph because he is a better PG. But he would not lead this team to greatness without help. We would clearly be a better team but we would still need to adjust and make changes and build talent around him. That's my point. He would be someone to build around though and you would see management acquire personnel based on his skills. This is not done with Marbury. Thus it is silly to build around marbury with guys that need to be spoon fed.

I just hope that people will like me
BlueSeats
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12/30/2005  12:50 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Well Kidd would make our team better than Steph because he is a better PG. But he would not lead this team to greatness without help. We would clearly be a better team but we would still need to adjust and make changes and build talent around him. That's my point. He would be someone to build around though and you would see management acquire personnel based on his skills. This is not done with Marbury. Thus it is silly to build around marbury with guys that need to be spoon fed.

best I can tell, GMs ultimately decide it's silly to build around Steph, period. Few teams want a perimeter oriented Style, and Steph appears to struggle with anything else. So GMs build a team, Steph doesn't fit, and he's moved.
YoungSpike
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12/30/2005  12:50 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by Bippity10:


We need guys that can put the ball in the basket. It doesn't amtter if you have Jason Kidd, if he is passing the ball to Malik Rose and Antonio Davis and a batch of career 39% shooters than you aren't winning. You'll notice that NJ has surrounded Kidd with finishers. There is a reason for this.


Bip, I wonder a little about this. Look at Kenyon Martin's performance with Kidd and then with Miller. Night and day. Look at Vince on Toronto and then with Kidd (granted he was faking in Toronto). I have a feeling Kidd would be finding Frye, Curry, Ariza, Nate, Crawford, Lee (if he got PT), even Richardson and James for a lot more baskets.

Thoughts?


i dont think our problem is finding these guys. our problem is that these guys rarely hit the open shot(Qrich especially, sometimes he cant get more open).

Isn't it the story of Marbs career, that guys aren't hitting their jumpers?

Did anyone notice Richard the gazzelle Jefferson in the Olympics being constantly set up for 20 footers? With Kidd it's layup after layup.

Tim Duncan could never quite position himself right to get a good entry feed from Steph and was called for one offensive foul after another.

How about the splendid chemistry displayed between Steph and Marion and Amare, who he played with for two years. Yeah, I saw no signs of chemistry either. They couldn't hit their jumpers...

Surround Steph with a bunch of perimeter players maybe you have a change at mediocre or above play, like when he first came here. Surround him with athletes, like on the Suns and the Olympics, and you can watch for him to "single handedly" try to beat the opposition, like against the Spurs or international competition.

Yes, yes yes the whole Team USA thing was all because of Steph too, and when the Suns played the Spurs that year how many games did it go to? Who won it all that year? As Iremember it the UNDERDOG Suns played them better then anyone else that year
Bippity10
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12/30/2005  12:56 PM
I agree, I think that's why we decided we are better off building around curry and Frye. So it's silly to expect Marbs to do things he can't when we know he can't. It's like being angry at Howard Eisley for not being able to build around him. Wouldn't that be management's fault? Or is it Eisley's? Should I be mad at management or should I hate Eisley for this decision?

Steph is a player capable of putting up 20 on any given night. This is his strength. If Marbs is here it is up to management to develop a line-up that utilizes his strenght rahter than build a line-up of guys that needs him to dish to them in the perfect position to make shots. It's just plain common sense.

Was Allan Houston more valuable as a 2 guard sitting opposite a post up star that could drill big shots or was he better as a leading franchise guy that could lead his team to the finals. It is management's job to build a team in which players fit into their roles not to try to force feed and fantasize about turning a player into a franchise star simply by paying him a lot of money. We'd be better off sprinkling him with pixie dust
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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12/30/2005  12:57 PM
I do not hate Marbury because management has mistakingly thrust him into the role of franchise savior and Jason Kidd like passing PG
I just hope that people will like me
BlueSeats
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12/30/2005  1:31 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I do not hate Marbury because management has mistakingly thrust him into the role of franchise savior and Jason Kidd like passing PG

Those aren't the reasons I hate him either.
Bippity10
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12/30/2005  1:33 PM
Yes but we know you hate him Mr. Objective
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YoungSpike
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12/30/2005  1:45 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ Management and fans are wrong for expecting something out of him that he simply can't do.

But don't think for a second Marbury's ego doesn't play a part in all this. Once upon a time, Steph could've made it clear who and what he was, but instead he chose to try to be Superman b/c that's the type of guy he is ---

How could he have done this? Like I said I am a Marbury fan, a big one. I watched him play in high school, saw him win the PSAL, I knew he was only going to college for one year because he said that was all he needed. I watched him and Iverson play on the same team at the Rucker and when he played for the Nets I want to as many games as I could. His father (his real one) even lived in my building on my floor. This year and the team USA games are the worst I have ever seen him play and I said I have seen him have games where we have lost and I know he could have done more and Brown says he had a grate game. I think its because Brown thinks there is only one way to play basketball. I think people get caught up in the whole PG thing. I know back in the day there was no point guard but in today's NBA PG is the best position for his skills, pass first point or not and he is one of the best in the NBA at it Brown just has to put him in a position to show it and so far he has not, but I think he will.
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