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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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Knight
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12/29/2005  1:37 PM
^Do you even realize how bad we would be if we were under the cap? Do you realize the kind of players we would have? Then to place all our bets on unknown lottery picks? C'mon, it's not as simple as you make it out to be. IT has gotten us a hall of fame coach and some nice young players and will continue to improve this team.
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islesfan
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12/29/2005  2:10 PM
Posted by Knight:

^Do you even realize how bad we would be if we were under the cap? Do you realize the kind of players we would have? Then to place all our bets on unknown lottery picks? C'mon, it's not as simple as you make it out to be. IT has gotten us a hall of fame coach and some nice young players and will continue to improve this team.

Do you even realize how bad we are right now?

We'd have a lottery pick from 2004, presumably Frye since Isiah said he would have drafted him even if he had the 1st pick and looking forward to a really high pick this season.

It's funny how people laud over Isiah's drafting ability and then turn around and say that lottery picks are so risky.

IT has gotten us a hall of fame coach and some nice young players and will continue to improve this team.

Again, why the blind faith for someone with no track record and a 2 year history here of failure?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TheloniusMonk
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12/29/2005  2:14 PM
^^^^^^^Exactly why it is said that u cannot rebuild in New York
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misterearl
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12/29/2005  2:14 PM
Islesfan - it ain't your money
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misterearl
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12/29/2005  2:17 PM
Islesfan - answer the question. Who do you propose would make the ideal Knicks General Manager?

I invite you, and your theory that anyone can rebuild a capped-out franchise in under two years, to take the time and illustrate your claim with an NBA case history.

I'll be patient.

[Edited by - MisterEarl on 12-29-2005 2:19 PM]
once a knick always a knick
islesfan
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12/29/2005  2:18 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

^^^^^^^Exactly why it is said that u cannot rebuild in New York

Because we have no patience with a rebuild in name only and not actions?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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12/29/2005  2:27 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

^^^^^^^Exactly why it is said that u cannot rebuild in New York

Because we have no patience with a rebuild in name only and not actions?


just cuz you dont get it, doesnt mean its not a rebuild.
Nalod
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12/29/2005  2:27 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Nalod:


YOur like 2 years too late for this arguement. There were some of us that saw "Messiah" as a GM Starphuching surpreme and did not buy into the hype surrounding it.

I'm 2 years late?!? You're being sarcastic, right?

[Edited by - islesfan on 12-29-2005 12:43 PM]

I was all over the "Isiah Love". Ask Hardcore, he would remember. I thought it was good publicity with little subtance. I was not thrilled with Marbs. NOt that I miss Lampe all that much, but I liked the rebuild Idea and thought as long as we were not spending assets, we could "wait it out" to get under the cap. No doubt we get under the cap can we attract a big name! This ain't Atlanta!

StumpBury put bodies in the seats.

Isles, why do you still follow this team?

Me, When I want to see a fun game to watch, I tune into the Nets! I like the way they play. But I gots me hopes for the knicks!
gunsnewing
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12/29/2005  2:41 PM

It's funny how people laud over Isiah's drafting ability and then turn around and say that lottery picks are so risky.

that is funny lol but i think isiah has done a decent job. I'm going to wait to see what he does with all these bums he acquired before I want him fired. No one thought we'd be a lottery team. I'm sure Isiah has learned not to throw away picks like that after this disaster and the same with overpaying jerome james and building around Marbury who should never be built around. It can't get any worse..the future looks bright once we weed out the trash
gunsnewing
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12/29/2005  2:49 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

^^^^^^^Exactly why it is said that u cannot rebuild in New York


why? because one person in this entire board thinks you can do it in 2yrs? He is right about the marbury trade being a horrible trade because we only prolonged the losing and mediocrity but just because he thinks we could've turned it around in only 2yrs doesn't mean all of NY has the exact same expectations. If you can't rebuild in NY then what is Glen Sather & the New York Rangers doing and very successfully?? It just goes to prove that the GM is the one calling the shots not Dolan. Dolan is just the idiot who's easily influenced, has no clue and shells out unlimited dough
misterearl
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12/29/2005  3:16 PM
>> If you can't rebuild in NY then what is Glen Sather & the New York Rangers doing and very successfully?

gunsnewing - When was the last year the Rangers were deep in the Stanley Cup Playoffs?

Please cite an NBA case study of a two year rebuild of a franchise OVER the salary cap

I'll be patient for you AND Islesfan.



[Edited by - MisterEarl on 12-29-2005 3:17 PM]
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BRIGGS
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12/29/2005  3:21 PM
[quote]
Posted by misterearl:

>> If you can't rebuild in NY then what is Glen Sather & the New York Rangers doing and very successfully?

gunsnewing - When was the last year the Rangers were deep in the Stanley Cup Playoffs?

Please cite an NBA case study of a two year rebuild of a franchise OVER the salary cap

I'll be patient for you AND Islesfan.



Well, the cap mechanism has changed throughout the years so it's not really a valid question, but Pheonix was capped out until they dumped Marbury and Hardaway on the Knicks and went on to win 62 games the next year--if joe johnson didnt get hurt, they had a very serious chance to win it all.
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gunsnewing
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12/29/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]
Posted by misterearl:

>> If you can't rebuild in NY then what is Glen Sather & the New York Rangers doing and very successfully?

gunsnewing - When was the last year the Rangers were deep in the Stanley Cup Playoffs?

Please cite an NBA case study of a two year rebuild of a franchise OVER the salary cap

I'll be patient for you AND Islesfan.



Well, the cap mechanism has changed throughout the years so it's not really a valid question, but Pheonix was capped out until they dumped Marbury and Hardaway on the Knicks and went on to win 62 games the next year--if joe johnson didnt get hurt, they had a very serious chance to win it all.


exactly. I used the Rangers this time because I'm getting pretty tired of talking about Phoenix, Miami and the rest of the tesams that are where they are today because of lottery picks and capspace
Bippity10
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12/29/2005  3:27 PM
I don't know, is it fair to compare the Suns situation to the one we had with Layden and co? At any point in time over the past 4 years or so we would have had to dump 5 or 6 of our best players just to get near the cap. At that point the team we were left with would have been so bad that the stars we brought in would have been in the same boat as the stars we just dumped. No way is this team is any kind of contender in just 2 years. It's fantasy to think it's even remotely possible.
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misterearl
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12/29/2005  3:34 PM
Briggs - it is an entirely vallid question

gunsnewing - The Suns are eliminated from the comparison for the reasons stated by Bippity10

Next!

Can anyone cite ONE case history of what they claim is so easy to accomplish in two years, starting from OVER the salary cap?

Like I said, I'll be patient.

once a knick always a knick
BRIGGS
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12/29/2005  3:34 PM
its pretty simple to deduce. since there was no contract other than shanden and houston next year, we would not have had cap problems. The cap is all isiah, and anyone bringing up the word laydumb is making excuses. If there was no contract past next year--then it would have been a choice of mangement to rebuild through the draft and head for fA this up coming year. all of this money spent was pure waste.
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BRIGGS
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12/29/2005  3:37 PM
i just answered you. Try to use your brain here. the Pheonix Suns were CAPPED out for YEARS to come in 2003 and were able to dump the salaries of stephon marbury and penny on to the knicks enabling them to GET out of that situation

come on use some neurons. the suns did it and won 62 games the following year.
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misterearl
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12/29/2005  3:41 PM
>> its pretty simple to deduce. since there was no contract other than shanden and houston next year,

Briggs - wrong
once a knick always a knick
BlueSeats
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12/29/2005  3:43 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

why? because one person in this entire board thinks you can do it in 2yrs? He is right about the marbury trade being a horrible trade because we only prolonged the losing and mediocrity but just because he thinks we could've turned it around in only 2yrs doesn't mean all of NY has the exact same expectations. If you can't rebuild in NY then what is Glen Sather & the New York Rangers doing and very successfully?? It just goes to prove that the GM is the one calling the shots not Dolan. Dolan is just the idiot who's easily influenced, has no clue and shells out unlimited dough


You know, in spite of Layden's incompetence i always felt his greatest downfall was an inability to communicate with the fan base and articulate his plan. You know, all the stonefaced interviews saying "we like our team we like our chances."

I think one of the reasons isiah took NY by storm was because of his articulateness and charisma, but more importantly, he spoke like us. he talked of a "disease" on the team and how he canted contracts commensurate with talent, etc.

I really think he could have sold NY on a rebuild with a well articulated plan, and one of his failings, which is showing up as fans impatience and discontent right now is that he's failed to maintain that dialog and let on in on the evolution of the plan. Most of us where led to believe it was a win-now proposition. Sure the word 'rebuild' has been bandied about, but that really seems to indicate little more than a one time dip into the draft pool, which we did this summer, then it's back to using expiring contracts to take back castoffs, plus the MLE.

I believe NY can take a rebuild if we understand the scenario. What I think many find frustration s a wishy-washy mishmash approach that is hard to define and with little precedent to justify it.

That said, I still kinda like Isiah, I just wish he was doing a traditional rebuild on us. I'm not sold on expiring contracts, low draft picks and the MLE as a reliable means to elite talent in this league.
misterearl
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12/29/2005  3:43 PM
Briggs - only Houston and Shadon Anderson coming off the books from the Layden roster does not get the Knicks under the cap
once a knick always a knick
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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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