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truth about Marbury
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BlueSeats
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12/19/2005  8:11 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Tom, are you seriously trying to make the case that NY would suffer in the FA market cause players are afraid of the fans and media?


Do you seriously think I implied that in any of my posts?

Yes.
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knicksavvy
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12/19/2005  10:57 PM
Posted by Nalod:

This team less marbs would not be better. Who then at the point?

Marbs at the point might not be the future, but we need a point more than we DON"T need Marbs.

Ewing was a stubborn fool and very self centered. Its not that we would have been better with him, it would have been better if he changed. Same with Marbs. And he is trying! Ewing never did!
How can you say that about the only Knick that carried us into the playoffs for ten straight years? Patrick was a super star

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Bippity10
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12/20/2005  10:45 AM
That's just the nonsense that the media spewed about Ewing because they didn't like him. Fans just jumped on the bandwagon. But the truth is if you took Ewing off that team we would have been in the lottery every year. The guy carried us every year without ever having a second player that was capable of making the all-star team. Of course he was a ball hog. And I thank him for it.
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jazz74
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12/20/2005  11:04 AM
Posted by knicksavvy:
Posted by Nalod:

This team less marbs would not be better. Who then at the point?

Marbs at the point might not be the future, but we need a point more than we DON"T need Marbs.

Ewing was a stubborn fool and very self centered. Its not that we would have been better with him, it would have been better if he changed. Same with Marbs. And he is trying! Ewing never did!
How can you say that about the only Knick that carried us into the playoffs for ten straight years? Patrick was a super star

change to what? he was already a dominate center. just because he wasn't a vocal leader? as far as being a ball hog, he was our best scorer. if it is dumped in the post to him his job was to score. he was never a good passer out of the post and he was always a good post scorer. how did starks, oakley and mason do after they left ewing? not great. mason had some decent seasons but became a malcontent that nobody wanted to touch. he made what people would consider no better than an expansion team into a championship contender. don't believe the hype!
jaydh
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12/20/2005  11:07 AM
Posted by knicksavvy:
Posted by Nalod:

This team less marbs would not be better. Who then at the point?

Marbs at the point might not be the future, but we need a point more than we DON"T need Marbs.

Ewing was a stubborn fool and very self centered. Its not that we would have been better with him, it would have been better if he changed. Same with Marbs. And he is trying! Ewing never did!
How can you say that about the only Knick that carried us into the playoffs for ten straight years? Patrick was a super star

its true though. Ewing refused to change, so Nelson was fired and Ewing never won.
Bippity10
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12/20/2005  11:35 AM
Ewing never won. Is it because he wasn't a leader or:

Starks went 2-17
Michael Jordan and Hakeem were better
Ny never placed a star next to him

With the players that played alongside Ewing we made it to two finals and without one fight should have made it to another. When he was traded away our organization turned into an NBA embarrassment. How can fans even justify criticizing this guy.

Jordan won when he got Pippen, Shaq when Kobe came of age. The Celtics, Pistons and Lakers all had several all-stars on those teams. What did Ewing have? Starks? Oakley? Houston when he was old?
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jaydh
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12/20/2005  11:44 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Ewing never won. Is it because he wasn't a leader or:

Starks went 2-17
Michael Jordan and Hakeem were better
Ny never placed a star next to him

With the players that played alongside Ewing we made it to two finals and without one fight should have made it to another. When he was traded away our organization turned into an NBA embarrassment. How can fans even justify criticizing this guy.

Jordan won when he got Pippen, Shaq when Kobe came of age. The Celtics, Pistons and Lakers all had several all-stars on those teams. What did Ewing have? Starks? Oakley? Houston when he was old?

back then, all you needed was 1 good player surrounded by role players. ewing had such bad hands, so many turnovers, such a high dribble, so many choked shots(a few in the playoffs, eg-indiana, his drive to the hoop, instead of dunks, he finger rolls it, hits the back of the rim and out). nellie was just trying to get the ball out of his hands so damn much until he was set.
Bippity10
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12/20/2005  11:48 AM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Ewing never won. Is it because he wasn't a leader or:

Starks went 2-17
Michael Jordan and Hakeem were better
Ny never placed a star next to him

With the players that played alongside Ewing we made it to two finals and without one fight should have made it to another. When he was traded away our organization turned into an NBA embarrassment. How can fans even justify criticizing this guy.

Jordan won when he got Pippen, Shaq when Kobe came of age. The Celtics, Pistons and Lakers all had several all-stars on those teams. What did Ewing have? Starks? Oakley? Houston when he was old?

back then, all you needed was 1 good player surrounded by role players. ewing had such bad hands, so many turnovers, such a high dribble, so many choked shots(a few in the playoffs, eg-indiana, his drive to the hoop, instead of dunks, he finger rolls it, hits the back of the rim and out). nellie was just trying to get the ball out of his hands so damn much until he was set.

I don't make personal attacks but honestly, I think you are crazy.
I just hope that people will like me
jaydh
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12/20/2005  11:51 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Ewing never won. Is it because he wasn't a leader or:

Starks went 2-17
Michael Jordan and Hakeem were better
Ny never placed a star next to him

With the players that played alongside Ewing we made it to two finals and without one fight should have made it to another. When he was traded away our organization turned into an NBA embarrassment. How can fans even justify criticizing this guy.

Jordan won when he got Pippen, Shaq when Kobe came of age. The Celtics, Pistons and Lakers all had several all-stars on those teams. What did Ewing have? Starks? Oakley? Houston when he was old?

back then, all you needed was 1 good player surrounded by role players. ewing had such bad hands, so many turnovers, such a high dribble, so many choked shots(a few in the playoffs, eg-indiana, his drive to the hoop, instead of dunks, he finger rolls it, hits the back of the rim and out). nellie was just trying to get the ball out of his hands so damn much until he was set.

I don't make personal attacks but honestly, I think you are crazy.

i guess thats what happens when you have one the most dominant big men, one of the best coaches, one of the best defenses in the league for 10+yrs and he cant get you a championship.
jazz74
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12/20/2005  12:22 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Ewing never won. Is it because he wasn't a leader or:

Starks went 2-17
Michael Jordan and Hakeem were better
Ny never placed a star next to him

With the players that played alongside Ewing we made it to two finals and without one fight should have made it to another. When he was traded away our organization turned into an NBA embarrassment. How can fans even justify criticizing this guy.

Jordan won when he got Pippen, Shaq when Kobe came of age. The Celtics, Pistons and Lakers all had several all-stars on those teams. What did Ewing have? Starks? Oakley? Houston when he was old?

back then, all you needed was 1 good player surrounded by role players. ewing had such bad hands, so many turnovers, such a high dribble, so many choked shots(a few in the playoffs, eg-indiana, his drive to the hoop, instead of dunks, he finger rolls it, hits the back of the rim and out). nellie was just trying to get the ball out of his hands so damn much until he was set.


so back then we needed one good player? how about portland with several good players? how about cleveland with several good players? did they win? the rela reason ewing did not win the whole thing was the personell araound him and timing. jordan did get him a few times but what would have happened if smith made the dunk? or starks hit half of his shots in the finals game 7? or ewing did not tear his achilles in 99? or we did not trade mark jackson? there are a lot of what ifs but ewing was a constant warrior who battled every night. i did not matter if you had two great players back then. it wasn't that simple. ask cleveland, portland, orlando, seattle, orlando, etc.
jaydh
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12/20/2005  12:29 PM
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Ewing never won. Is it because he wasn't a leader or:

Starks went 2-17
Michael Jordan and Hakeem were better
Ny never placed a star next to him

With the players that played alongside Ewing we made it to two finals and without one fight should have made it to another. When he was traded away our organization turned into an NBA embarrassment. How can fans even justify criticizing this guy.

Jordan won when he got Pippen, Shaq when Kobe came of age. The Celtics, Pistons and Lakers all had several all-stars on those teams. What did Ewing have? Starks? Oakley? Houston when he was old?

back then, all you needed was 1 good player surrounded by role players. ewing had such bad hands, so many turnovers, such a high dribble, so many choked shots(a few in the playoffs, eg-indiana, his drive to the hoop, instead of dunks, he finger rolls it, hits the back of the rim and out). nellie was just trying to get the ball out of his hands so damn much until he was set.


so back then we needed one good player? how about portland with several good players? how about cleveland with several good players? did they win? the rela reason ewing did not win the whole thing was the personell araound him and timing. jordan did get him a few times but what would have happened if smith made the dunk? or starks hit half of his shots in the finals game 7? or ewing did not tear his achilles in 99? or we did not trade mark jackson? there are a lot of what ifs but ewing was a constant warrior who battled every night. i did not matter if you had two great players back then. it wasn't that simple. ask cleveland, portland, orlando, seattle, orlando, etc.

let me clarify, not 1 good player, 1 star player(ours was ewing).. cle didnt have that 1 star player. most those other teams you listed were good, but were flawed(no defense).

If Smith made that dunk? Well lets see, that wasnt the last game of the series, so it means squat. the end result is all that matters. it was widely known that ewings game was flawed; when a good coach came in to try to help him; he gets the coach fired. Big deal if Ewing battled(he was my fave knick), he still wasnt going to even try to change and improve his game.
tomverve
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12/20/2005  12:37 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

Do you seriously think I implied that in any of my posts?

Yes.
[/quote]

Sorry, you're wrong. Not much more to say; go back and reread.
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BlueSeats
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12/20/2005  4:05 PM
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Do you seriously think I implied that in any of my posts?

Yes.

Sorry, you're wrong. Not much more to say; go back and reread.

That was the impression I got after already asking for clarification. If you want me to get you you could restate your opinion more clearly. Or maybe you'd prefer to not be understood?


[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-20-2005 4:09 PM]
bigbeast
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12/20/2005  8:06 PM
Don't what game your watching but Marbury never penetrates the lane, draw defenders and dish to Curry for an easy dunk or lay up. When Marbury drives he puts his head down and the ball with one of those floating one-handers. When is the last time you saw Curry get a dunk off a Marbury pass.

Watching Ford zip up and down the court against the knicks last week brought me to the realization that we need a true pg. Gadzuric, who can't shoot if his life depended on it scored 18 points strictly off Ford penetration and passes. A good point guard like Ford and Knight could add at least 4-5 points to Curry's average just off penetration.

Yes, Marbury does kick it back to Frye on the pick and roll but thats easy and obvious. Hope getting into the lane and passing to the bigs. Isiah even said they need to build around the bigs. Need guards who compliment the bigs not vice versa.
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Bippity10
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12/21/2005  10:10 AM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by Bippity10:

Ewing never won. Is it because he wasn't a leader or:

Starks went 2-17
Michael Jordan and Hakeem were better
Ny never placed a star next to him

With the players that played alongside Ewing we made it to two finals and without one fight should have made it to another. When he was traded away our organization turned into an NBA embarrassment. How can fans even justify criticizing this guy.

Jordan won when he got Pippen, Shaq when Kobe came of age. The Celtics, Pistons and Lakers all had several all-stars on those teams. What did Ewing have? Starks? Oakley? Houston when he was old?

back then, all you needed was 1 good player surrounded by role players. ewing had such bad hands, so many turnovers, such a high dribble, so many choked shots(a few in the playoffs, eg-indiana, his drive to the hoop, instead of dunks, he finger rolls it, hits the back of the rim and out). nellie was just trying to get the ball out of his hands so damn much until he was set.

This just goes to prove my point about the way NY fans treat their stars. It doesn't matter how little the rest of the players on the roster produce in the end NY fans will blame the star that is producing.

As for Nelson being fired. He wanted to play Ewing at PF.
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Nalod
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12/21/2005  10:34 AM
Ewings attidude of not being team oriented made him a tru warrior, but also held the team back.

If you recall, the team was offensively challanged and the games were a bit of a drag. Nice defensive battles, but lets be real, the team was having a hard time putting the ball in the basket.

Nelson was trying to open things up for Ewing and prolong his career. Ewings ego could not handle it! It was also a contract year. Too bad, the team might have been a lot of fun over the next few years. Obviously pandering to Ewing was a bad idea. Hindsight is great that way.
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12/21/2005  10:37 AM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by tomverve:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Do you seriously think I implied that in any of my posts?

Yes.

Sorry, you're wrong. Not much more to say; go back and reread.

That was the impression I got after already asking for clarification. If you want me to get you you could restate your opinion more clearly. Or maybe you'd prefer to not be understood?


[Edited by - BlueSeats on 12-20-2005 4:09 PM]

I dont think tomverve was agreeing with bippity that the losing would scare away FA's I think he was just clarifing bippity's point.
tkf
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12/21/2005  10:42 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Ewings attidude of not being team oriented made him a tru warrior, but also held the team back.

If you recall, the team was offensively challanged and the games were a bit of a drag. Nice defensive battles, but lets be real, the team was having a hard time putting the ball in the basket.

Nelson was trying to open things up for Ewing and prolong his career. Ewings ego could not handle it! It was also a contract year. Too bad, the team might have been a lot of fun over the next few years. Obviously pandering to Ewing was a bad idea. Hindsight is great that way.


I said the same thing before nalod, I thought nelly would of really brought to the table a fresh offensive approach instead of the grind it out defensive games we used to have. Ewing didn't like the idea of nelly diminishing his offensive role to players like mason, but nelly did go about it the wrong way, especially with starks, but you know what, I think he was correct, just didn't go about it correctly IMO..


[Edited by - tkf on 12-21-2005 10:45 AM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
BlueSeats
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12/21/2005  10:43 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

As for Nelson being fired. He wanted to play Ewing at PF.

Nellie's problems weren't just with Patrick.

While one of the great criticisms about Brown is his commentary thru the press, nellie was worse. No need to state that Patrick should be a third option (behind who Hubert and Mason?), or that Hubert davis was "clearly the better player" than Starks. Let's not forget Starks kicking chairs and punching the scorer's table.

And if my memory serves me it was under Nellie that Greg Anthony, in his satin floral print disaster shirt, sucker-punched Kevin Johnson. Everyone was upset and out of control.

He tried to turn a house built on defense into the Warriors or Maverics, only we had no Webber, Mullins, Dirks, and Finleys. And those teams knew who their bread and butter was but we, under Nellie, didn't.

Nellie tried to do to much too soon and went about it in the wrong way.
Bippity10
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12/21/2005  10:57 AM
Yeah we were a defensive drag it out team. Why? Just look at the personnel. Other than Ewing who on that team created their own offense? Who went on to average more than say 15 PPG? There is a reason why Ewing was the option, and only option.
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