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Thomas: Marbury No Longer Nucleus of Knicks
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TheloniusMonk
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12/19/2005  3:33 PM
Talk to Larry Brown about the rotations. Isiah obviously drafted Lee because he's capable.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
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EWING33BXNY
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12/19/2005  3:39 PM
What upsets me about IT is how he is not standing his ground. He mentions how great of a relationship him and his PG have and then this is what he says on the air. To me it looks like he doesn't have a backbone. He is letting LB run crazy all over NYC/MSG and we are not even sniffing mediocrity. LB admits that he is doing a terrible job coaching and IT turns around and stands up for his coach instead of the PG he was so happy signing. There is a difference between being a BUSINESS man and a BAD man. Right now, IT is looking like the BAD man all the ex-teammates mentioned he was.

Sad to say, I was ecstatic about the LB signing but now I'm definitely having second thoughts. We have a coach who confuses two rookies (who don't look anything alike) by name. Seems to just insist that its his way or the highway and who is chasing the best player we have away from the garden. Right here IT needs to MANUP and give STARBURY, "his great signing", the chance he deserves.
Bippity10
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12/19/2005  4:32 PM
Marbury has never won. LB has. Marbury needs to MANUP and give LB the chance his methods have EARNED.
I just hope that people will like me
tkf
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12/19/2005  4:36 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Marbury has never won. LB has. Marbury needs to MANUP and give LB the chance his methods have EARNED.

you are correct. END OF STORY!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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12/19/2005  4:39 PM
this was all talked about before lb signed on the dotted line. all three parties, zeke, lb, and steph knew it was going to be tough trying to fit the square peg into the round hole. and i'm sure assurances were made that they would give it a legit shot, until the all star break at least. time is running out on getting it to work. the entire plan will unfold by the middle of february. let's just hope the collateral damage is at a minimum.

i think isiah is backing steph on this and telling him what he wants to hear...but it's painfully obvious to everyone that something is "off." the edict to move him will come from mills/dolan and isiah will present it that way. "steph, i fought for you but they wanted you gone. sorry son, but get those parkas ready b/c you're going to toronto!!!". the mills/dolan connection are well aware of the situation and the growing sentiment of the fan base...and more importantly, the season ticket holders as they are becoming more and more vociferous in their displeasure of coney island's finest.

as each day passes, another page is turned...as those are the days of our knicks...
SlimPack
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12/19/2005  5:03 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Nope, dude has brought in youth on a team full of old fogees prior. What's not to like? You'd have to be biased not to like the position he's put this team in for the future. Young guys who will develop and at the same time we're in a position to make moves this season, this offseason and in the future. That's what 'having young talent' means. Keep in mind that people said the old fogee contracts were 'unmoveable'.

It's just that people can't take mediocrity while players figure it out. Frye is figuring it out. Nate will figure it out....he most certainly has the talent to do it. Lee has great potential too. AT the same time Isiah has proven then when draft time comes he WILL improve the team. That means the most because this gaurantees that we have a future. I could care less if the team wins or loses this season. When it's all said and done it's about a ring. This team wasn't going to win a ring this season anyway so who cares?

So sit back and continue to watch Isiah rack up young talent. Guess you miss the days of a roster full of old vets.

just becuase islesfan thinks isiah did a crappy job with the knicks by no means means that he is racist. its true the team has more potential and youth then it has in the past, but this team is payin 124 million dollars for a 6-17 record, with no lottery pick to compensate us with for this season or the next or any hope of cap flexibilty any team soon, You certainly dont have to be racist to think isiah has done a crappy job
BlueSeats
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12/19/2005  5:12 PM
Posted by arkrud:

IT is not a racist which hates white people he is basketball racist who hates white players and as any racism this is a mental problem of his developed over time in his life.
This is not coming from his mind; it's an instinct or disease if you want.
He just has the mental problem coming from his lifetime fight with Bird. Any white player reminds him the dude and he cannot do anything with this. He needs a doctor...
But we have no discrimination in NBA against mentally unstable people so he can still do his job…


you do realize isaih lists bobby knight, chuck daley and bill laimbeer as some of his most respected friends. he also hired LB to oversee this squad. and he list's bird and mchale on his all time best nba team.
oohah
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12/19/2005  6:07 PM
I think the word everyone is looking for here is PREJUDICED. In order to be RACIST, you have to be actively trying to harm another race.

Is Islefan prejudiced? Who the hell knows?

I have a better question: Is Isiah Rrcist or prejudiced? He buried Choshere, he made the infamous Larry Bird comment, and he traded Van Horn when he was playing the best ball of his career and the Knicks were winning, for Tim Thomas.

Answer me that.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TheloniusMonk
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12/19/2005  6:12 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Nope, dude has brought in youth on a team full of old fogees prior. What's not to like? You'd have to be biased not to like the position he's put this team in for the future. Young guys who will develop and at the same time we're in a position to make moves this season, this offseason and in the future. That's what 'having young talent' means. Keep in mind that people said the old fogee contracts were 'unmoveable'.

It's just that people can't take mediocrity while players figure it out. Frye is figuring it out. Nate will figure it out....he most certainly has the talent to do it. Lee has great potential too. AT the same time Isiah has proven then when draft time comes he WILL improve the team. That means the most because this gaurantees that we have a future. I could care less if the team wins or loses this season. When it's all said and done it's about a ring. This team wasn't going to win a ring this season anyway so who cares?

So sit back and continue to watch Isiah rack up young talent. Guess you miss the days of a roster full of old vets.

just becuase islesfan thinks isiah did a crappy job with the knicks by no means means that he is racist. its true the team has more potential and youth then it has in the past, but this team is payin 124 million dollars for a 6-17 record, with no lottery pick to compensate us with for this season or the next or any hope of cap flexibilty any team soon, You certainly dont have to be racist to think isiah has done a crappy job

Why are you highlighting my post as though I am the one who said he was racist. Get the poster right.

'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
BlueSeats
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12/19/2005  6:40 PM
Posted by oohah:
I have a better question: Is Isiah Rrcist or prejudiced? He buried Choshere, he made the infamous Larry Bird comment, and he traded Van Horn when he was playing the best ball of his career and the Knicks were winning, for Tim Thomas.

A lot of coaches would bury croshere.

isiah didn't make the bird comment Rodman did in the heat of battle with their fiercest rival - nowadays we call it trash talk. One can only imagine how it felt to be the underdog 'badboy' pistons up against the legendary 'goldenboy' celtics, and having to defeat them while all the media wants to talk about is larry bird and his halo.

cousin telfair thinks KVH was moved for Steph.
oohah
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12/19/2005  8:44 PM
First, let me explain that I was being somewhat facetious.
A lot of coaches would bury croshere.

Maybe, but only Isiah did it thus far, and Croshere has struck me as a pretty decent player.

isiah didn't make the bird comment Rodman did in the heat of battle with their fiercest rival - nowadays we call it trash talk. One can only imagine how it felt to be the underdog 'badboy' pistons up against the legendary 'goldenboy' celtics, and having to defeat them while all the media wants to talk about is larry bird and his halo.

Are you sure it was Rodman? Because I could have sworn it was Isiah that said something to the effect of: "If Bird was white, he would be just another good player". I could have sworn I saw Isiah defending those remarks at a later date, saying he had to talk to Bird's mother etc.

I wouldn't dismiss any talk that brings up the race of another player as simple trash talk, at best it is simply a stupid thing to say.

cousin telfair thinks KVH was moved for Steph.

Aha! So Marbury is the racist!

***

My honest feeling about Isiah is that if two players are equal, one is black, one is white, he'll take the black player. I remember John Thompson saying something like that as well, when discussing why Georgetown rarely had a white player. Is this right or wrong? I wouldn't necessarily describe that as a racist attitude, but I don't find it to be progressive either.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
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12/19/2005  9:08 PM
oohah, your speculation is as good as mine regarding Isiah's motives toward Croshere and KVH, but I'm quite certain on the Bird comments. I had read it before and it was confirmed by Rodman himself on that interview show with Michael Kay, the name of which is escaping me.

Rodman said "If Bird was white, he would be just another good player", and when asked about Rodman's comments, isiah as team captain in battle, simply backup up his teammate. Rodman, on the show, said it was just a flippant comment, but he really appreciated isiah, his captain, backing him up. It was a matter of teammates in battle. It didn't matter what Rodman had said, isiah was gonna have his back. And Rodman was screwy even then, his wasn't an easy back to keep up with, but it was isiah's team and that was part of how he kept it together.

And while on a talent level we know the comment is absurd, I can understand how the detroit players, while locked in battle for the eastern conference, would be offended when so much talk is on the other team. I mean it's one of the things I loved about isiah and the "badboys", they were always the underdog, and always fighting against the "goodboy" charisma of Bird and Magic, but those little blue collar guys from detroit, with humongous hearts, took down both the mighty giants of the Celtics, Lakers and Bulls.

Isiah has never been placed in the "Magic, Michael, Bird" pantheon, but he beat them all. His heart was huge.

He beat them all.
oohah
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12/19/2005  9:24 PM
Isiah has never been placed in the "Magic, Michael, Bird" pantheon, but he beat them all. His heart was huge.

He beat them all.

I agree. He also should have made the Dream Team, no question. I mean come on, Chistian Leattner? No college player deserved to be on that team ahead of Isiah, that was a farce. And if they had to put a college player on (Which they didn't), it should have been Shaq.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
bobs3304
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12/19/2005  9:26 PM
He didn't make it b/c everyone hated him.

Laettner would've made it just b/c he was the mandatory college player. It was Pippen that replaced him.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
oohah
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12/19/2005  9:32 PM
He didn't make it b/c everyone hated him.

I think IT is an ass-hole, but I think he did not make the Dream Team mainly because JORDAN hated him, and he was the basketball ambassador to the world at that time.

Laettner would've made it just b/c he was the mandatory college player. It was Pippen that replaced him.

My point was the mandatory college player was stupid, and took the place of a more deserving player, whoever it would have been.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 12-19-2005 9:33 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
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12/19/2005  9:32 PM
I don't know the specifics but it's generally rumored that Jordan in particular kept him off the Dream Team by threatening not to be on it if Isiah was.

But other than being bitter division rivals, I don't know what the animosity between them was about.
oohah
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12/19/2005  9:35 PM
I don't know the specifics but it's generally rumored that Jordan in particular kept him off the Dream Team by threatening not to be on it if Isiah was.

That was my understanding.

But other than being bitter division rivals, I don't know what the animosity between them was about.

Legend has it all started with IT "freezing Jordan out" at Jordan's first all-star game. Also, the Bad Boys did some dirty sh!t to Jordan and Pippen, but I ain't sheddin' no tears for the Bulls. The only players I liked on the Bad Boys team were Dumars, The Microwave, and James Edwards.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 12-19-2005 9:36 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
rvhoss
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12/19/2005  10:20 PM
http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Thomas_Isiah.html
Along with his emergence as one of the NBA's brightest stars, Thomas became one of its most outspoken players. He caused a stir during the 1987 playoffs by parroting Dennis Rodman and saying that if Larry Bird were black he'd be just "another good guy" instead of being hyped as the league's best player. Thomas later apologized to Bird and claimed he was joking.
all kool aid all the time.
BlueSeats
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12/19/2005  10:22 PM
Posted by oohah:
I don't know the specifics but it's generally rumored that Jordan in particular kept him off the Dream Team by threatening not to be on it if Isiah was.

That was my understanding.

But other than being bitter division rivals, I don't know what the animosity between them was about.

Legend has it all started with IT "freezing Jordan out" at Jordan's first all-star game. Also, the Bad Boys did some dirty sh!t to Jordan and Pippen, but I ain't sheddin' no tears for the Bulls. The only players I liked on the Bad Boys team were Dumars, The Microwave, and James Edwards.

Right, that all sounds familiar. Another thing was isiah's Pistons not shaking hands and congratulating the Bulls on beating them in the conference finals. A lot of people used that as fodder against Isiah's character. Funny thing is Isiah said he was taught that move by Bird's Celtics when the Pistons beat them, so he was just following suit when he had to pass the baton to Jordan. But of course Bird's character was never questioned while Isiah's was.
Marv
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12/19/2005  10:25 PM
on the larry/rodman/isiah deal - rodman said that bird was very overrated. isiah said larry was a very, very good basketball player but he had to agree with rodman, if he were black, he'd be just another good guy. larry laughed the whole thing off. he agreed to have a conference with isiah to help him get the heat off. at the conference larry smiled and joked aw c'mon isiah you know my game is bad.

if any of you cats were around and watching hoops at the time you understood this was all meaningless and due to one thing - larry had torn the f'g hearts out of the pistons with that steal off isiah and pass to dj for the come from behind win. this was the '87 series one of the most incredibly painful things that could have happened to an athlete (isiah) - there were 5 seconds left in the game! - and one of the all-time greatest plays in the history of any sport by larry and dj.

as for the celtics being the good boys or the golden boys it wasn't true. they were f'g thugs and hated throughout the league for it. in bird's 1st year he had cowens, rick robey, ml carr, cornbread maxwell playing with him. they sma=acked the hell out of people. later on mchale was clotheslining people, bird was egging entire arenas on, ainge was nasty as hell,
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