if you want to fire isiah, fine. i guess you can go after kiki but it's not like he's made grade A decisions also.

i sort of agree with nalod here - it's a process. just like hiring lenny and dealing with his nonsense was a process. just like trading for steph and figuring out that almost 2 years later, he's not our nash or kidd. it's a process. now we have to go through lb and his dealing of the roster. it's a process. all through this process is losing and who gets f cked? mostly us as fans and employees as msg b/c people do get fired. so don't be mad about them losing or trading away picks b/c of the team. be mad that b/c of that idiocy, people lose jobs.

Rich---you hit the nail on the head!!! I totally agree. This team of players are not the Pistons that Larry coached. He needs to coach to their abilities while working and teaching them the things or players he'd like them to develop into - if that's possible. Let Marbury score. That's what he does. Let Crawford slash and be creative - that's what he does. Sometimes it's better to try a slow approach. Not to just slam your way down a persons throat.

The blame game:

1. In order to get some picks and cleas some things, we had to take some overpriced vets. Rose, mo. t, Davis, penny all are past potential. Im being kind.

2. Hard headed talent not yet Jellin. Marbs and Craw.

3. Half the roster is 23 or younger. Lets say Jackie Blue, Reezy, and the three rook amigos are still quite green. Might say the same for QDog, but he just here.

4. Might be redundant, but roster imbalance.

5. Fat Eddie not in shape.

The above is not fatal. I don't care about Lenny, and I have bashed Isiah over that crap, and last years team many times.

We are younger, much younger and it comes at a price.

Who said New York can handle a rebuild. Know thy self!

Posted by rojasmas:

Could the great Larry Brown be in over his head? What grade would you give him so far? This team could only be worse if they were the Toronto Raptors.

Notes: Brown was still offering examples of the Knicks' inability to grasp basic concepts before the game. "One guy asked me, 'Well, how do I know the time?' '' he said while discussing recent shot-clock violations. "I said, 'Well, it's usually on top of the backboard.' I never thought I'd have to have that kind of response, but you just can't take anything for granted." ...

when you read stuff like this its open to suggestion that maybe NY's struggles hhave alot more to do with the brainless players Isiah has acquired!

[Edited by - McK1 on 12-17-2005 10:49 AM]

yep

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by Rich:

Here's the case against Larry:

Many great coaches, like Riley, tailor their system to fit the personnel they have to work with. He utilized a "Showtime" offense in LA because it fit Magic, Worthy, Cooper, an aging Kareem, etc. When he came to NY, he realized that Oak, Starks, Mason, Ewing, etc. were more likely to win with a modified "nasty boys" approach.

Larry doesn't have the personnel here to implement the defensive style of play he prefers, but he still hasn't modified his approach.

This is how I feel. Coach to your personnel.

Posted by McK1:

Posted by rojasmas:

But what grade would you give him so far? Has he won us any games because of something he did, last second plays, matchups, etc? Have we gotten noticeably better defensively? We did give up a lot of points to the Hawks last night.

I give Brown an A - for not activating Lee. The way he is handling such self-absorbed players players like Marbury Crawford Curry and James is the only way to handle guys who got paid before they merited it.

This mess is Isiah's fault. Apparently on the Fan he admitted if he had Brown before the draft and free agent signing period started NY would have went in a totally different direction. There is no way any coach would win with a roster full of guys who have no clue about the mental parts of the game

question for those that hate Brown's methods

are you of the same group that preferred Fassell to Coughlin? I being pro-Coughlin had quite a few debates on another site with people who thought Tom's drill sargeant ways wouldn't work in NY. A tough "my way or the high way" coach is the only kind of coach that will enjoy a period of sustained success in NY.

Actually you made a bad analogy. By all accounts Coughlin change his style this season. He even brags about it now on the NFL channel. Brown may need to change hjs ways. Steph should be moved, along with JJ, but you telling me that Curry is a problem. The guy is 22, and still learning. Could you imagine if we would have drafted Bynum instead of Frye!!! or traded for Kwame Brown like you wanted. Brown would be blasting them every change he got. Hell Phil Jackson is blasting Kwame and he was on board with the trade.

24 months and 54 posts thus far. I think 38 player transactions later.....

We have finally reached a benchmark moment in time where not the franchise, but the Fans of UltimateKnicks.com have evolved and moved forward to new levels of blame.

Scott Layden has been freed of the reponsabilty of this current team.

We have everything we ever could have asked for, good rookies, young center with promise, a hall of fame coach, one of top two in the game, and after 20 games were are not happy with the record, but despite all the potential, we still must lay blame.

We love potential as much as a good record. But if not, someone must be to blame.

Sure, Blame Larry, does not mean you fire him. Blame him for it all, there is only thing, what is he gonna do from here? Are these players gonna get better or worse? Can they tell time? Can Marbury read the play book? Can every one read? Hey, not so stupid a question if you think about it. Think some of these guys were held accountable for academic standards?

Scott Layden, you are dismissed!

Basketball ain't brain surgery. Ron Artest isn't a genius but by most accounts, the guy has a high basketball IQ. Now off the court is another story!

Posted by Rich:

Here's the case against Larry:

Many great coaches, like Riley, tailor their system to fit the personnel they have to work with. He utilized a "Showtime" offense in LA because it fit Magic, Worthy, Cooper, an aging Kareem, etc. When he came to NY, he realized that Oak, Starks, Mason, Ewing, etc. were more likely to win with a modified "nasty boys" approach.

Larry doesn't have the personnel here to implement the defensive style of play he prefers, but he still hasn't modified his approach.

He doesn't have the personal here to implement anything. That's the problem. THe NY POST which I rarely agree with actually touched on a valid point. IT has gotten more athletic and younger by acquiring players that other teams didn't want because they didn't play smart (with the exception of Rose and AD who he got because they were on the downside of their careers).

So you got veterans that can't seem to learn to play and youngsters who haven't yet learned to play. The best we can hope for is that someone can teach these guys to play - Brown is as good an option as any - or that we can somehow acquire some players who know how to play.

I'll reiterate a point I've made before - nobody but Knick fans expected this team to be any good. Do you think maybe it isn't that the coach is bad? But that everybody else was right and the somewhat bias Knick fans were wrong?