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Fire Isiah before he's allowed to do even more damage
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Pharzeone
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12/15/2005  9:55 AM
Posted by McK1:

I love Frye's scoring ability.

However on draft night Granger was still on the board. We still had Mike Sweetney to play the 4 and our 3's did and do all suck. Our rebounding without the hated by most old timaz out there sucks. Our perimeter D just keeps getting worse and worse.

Right, I didn't say anything different. You are honest about your assessment of Frye. You thought that Granger was the better choice. To me Granger was the safest choice. All I saying is that Isles can't be allowed to go uncheck with this stuff about Frye was the safe pick when everyone was killing him, especially after he stated that if the Knicks had the first pick that he would have taken Frye over Bogut and he like Bogut alot. The safe pick many people were saying was Bogut and Paul. I even give Bobcock more credit because he got blasted from coast to coast for Charlie V at 7.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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Pharzeone
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12/15/2005  9:58 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Late first round?!? You're out of your mind. Coming out of college he was projected as a mid to late lottery pick by EVERYBODY. Sorry but that's the most ridiculous thing that I've heard in awhile. He jumped 15-20 spots because of a promise from Isiah?

You need to research that. Ask Briggs about that. Yes on NBADRAFT.NET and Chad Ford had Frye as a late 1st round pick before the start of the tournament. They still had Warrick and Taft rated ahead of Frye.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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12/15/2005  10:06 AM
At the start of the tournament?!? Can you go back a little further than just 4 months before the draft?? The safe pick that night was Frye. Granger (who was one of the players I wanted with that pick) was coming off injury and wasn't the safest pick like you're saying now.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Pharzeone
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12/15/2005  10:10 AM
Posted by islesfan:

At the start of the tournament?!? Can you go back a little further than just 4 months before the draft?? The safe pick that night was Frye. Granger (who was one of the players I wanted with that pick) was coming off injury and wasn't the safest pick like you're saying now.

Read my post! I said Isiah already knew who he was selecting in April. Granger did not have a serious injury and got a clean bill of health. As I stated the guy was listed late first round but moved up to mid first round after the tournament. I believe most of the posts here went like this "why can't we trade down to select Frye, and get another pick." Turns out that guy was moving up the charts.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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12/15/2005  10:14 AM
I was shocked by this pick. I thought it was rather un-Isiah like to take the safe way out the way he did. Isn't Isiah supposed to be the type to think outside the box? Maybe if he didn't acquire Crawford and Q we wouldn't have to pray that Green and Granger don't become huge stars.

This is what I said on the official Frye selection thread. I assume I posted it as soon as I heard he was the pick. So tell me again how my opinion has changed and how I didn't call him the safe pick at that time.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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12/15/2005  10:18 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:

At the start of the tournament?!? Can you go back a little further than just 4 months before the draft?? The safe pick that night was Frye. Granger (who was one of the players I wanted with that pick) was coming off injury and wasn't the safest pick like you're saying now.

Read my post! I said Isiah already knew who he was selecting in April. Granger did not have a serious injury and got a clean bill of health. As I stated the guy was listed late first round but moved up to mid first round after the tournament. I believe most of the posts here went like this "why can't we trade down to select Frye, and get another pick." Turns out that guy was moving up the charts.

Exactly, after the tournament he was slated to go in the bottom half of the lottery. Why are you arguing the point if you know it to be true? Because 4 months earlier he might not have been?? He was picked exactly where most people had him going, in the 6-10 range. Why is that so difficult to accept?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
SlimPack
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12/15/2005  10:23 AM
I dont think isiah should be fired just yet becuase I think he could still change his ways and starting making more prudent decisions, I know thats what he should have been doing in the first place but replacing him won't change the fact that he didn't. if this q for atkins and jeffreis rumor is true(assuming zeke finds some way to get it to work,like buying somone on our current roster out), combined with the recent news that zeke wont trade any of his young guys for artest, then I think this could be a good first step in the direction of a true rebuilding plan. I just wish I knew what his plans are right now.

EDIT: although now that I think about it Zeke DID trade away our pick for this year, and from the way things look now it will be a lottery one. But again firing him wont in of itself undo that, I wonder if chicago would take david lee in exchange for our pick back.





[Edited by - slimpack on 12-15-2005 10:30 AM]
Pharzeone
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12/15/2005  10:35 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by islesfan:

At the start of the tournament?!? Can you go back a little further than just 4 months before the draft?? The safe pick that night was Frye. Granger (who was one of the players I wanted with that pick) was coming off injury and wasn't the safest pick like you're saying now.

Read my post! I said Isiah already knew who he was selecting in April. Granger did not have a serious injury and got a clean bill of health. As I stated the guy was listed late first round but moved up to mid first round after the tournament. I believe most of the posts here went like this "why can't we trade down to select Frye, and get another pick." Turns out that guy was moving up the charts.

Exactly, after the tournament he was slated to go in the bottom half of the lottery. Why are you arguing the point if you know it to be true? Because 4 months earlier he might not have been?? He was picked exactly where most people had him going, in the 6-10 range. Why is that so difficult to accept?

He was not picked to go there. That promise and his private workouts help push him that far. But Isiah already made the kid a promise in early April. The same with Bynum when he entered the draft late first round pick then sky rocketed when others were interested. Maybe you are confusing safe with insight. The safe picks were the usual suspects in a NBA lottery where HSers were stil allowed to be drafted. Most seniors are drafted mid to late 1st round. What Isiah did was risky, promising Frye that he would be pick even before he had open workouts.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bippity10
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12/15/2005  10:52 AM
Safe pick, unsafe pick, who cares? Isn't the object to get a good player in the draft? Did we do that? Stop overanalyzing.
I just hope that people will like me
islesfan
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12/15/2005  10:58 AM
Pharzeone can you at least admit that I did call him the safe pick back when he was drafted and I'm not contradicting myself by calling him a safe pick now?

So who would be a safe pick? The HSers? Good players from top programs with a good grasp of the fundamentals and who are seniors are as safe a pick as you can get in terms of knowing what you're getting from them. That's what I mean by safe.

What's your definition? And please, enough with the promises. That has nothing to do with where people project a player to go in the draft. A spot or two maybe, where one team wants to get a player before a team picking just behind them is hoping to, but nobody is picking a player 15-20 spots ahead of where he should go just because there's a rumor that some GM has promised to take him higher.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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12/15/2005  11:02 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Channing was absolutely the safe pick. He went pretty much where everybody thought he would go. The criticism with the pick was that there were players that people thought had more upside than him. That may or not be true but there's no doubt that Frye was the safe choice at that pick.

what are you talking about, people tought frye was too soft for the nba
jaydh
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12/15/2005  11:09 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Late first round?!? You're out of your mind. Coming out of college he was projected as a mid to late lottery pick by EVERYBODY. Sorry but that's the most ridiculous thing that I've heard in awhile. He jumped 15-20 spots because of a promise from Isiah?

thats not true at all.. after his NCAA tourney performance, his stock had slipped and was expected to be taken around #20 or later.
islesfan
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12/15/2005  11:11 AM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

Channing was absolutely the safe pick. He went pretty much where everybody thought he would go. The criticism with the pick was that there were players that people thought had more upside than him. That may or not be true but there's no doubt that Frye was the safe choice at that pick.

what are you talking about, people tought frye was too soft for the nba

Those are 2 completely separate things.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
jaydh
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12/15/2005  11:18 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by islesfan:

Channing was absolutely the safe pick. He went pretty much where everybody thought he would go. The criticism with the pick was that there were players that people thought had more upside than him. That may or not be true but there's no doubt that Frye was the safe choice at that pick.

what are you talking about, people tought frye was too soft for the nba

Those are 2 completely separate things.


how can he be the safe pick if people thought he was too soft
islesfan
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12/15/2005  11:33 AM
Every article on ESPN.com up until a month leading up to the draft has Frye going in the 6-10 range which is exactly where he went. That's a safe pick, picking a player exactly where he was expected to go.

Just like I said back on draft night. Come on Pharzeone, admit you were wrong when you called me out saying that I shouldn't be allowed to go unchecked about calling him the "safe" pick now.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/15/2005  11:54 AM
Isles: You're a bitter, bitter, angry guy. Do you ever joke around with people?
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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12/15/2005  11:58 AM
Back to the main subject: I would fire Isiah before I fire Brown. After all, he's been here three years. Brown has only been here three months.
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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12/15/2005  12:02 PM
I wouldn't fire either of them. I would let these guys see the plan through. No more firings. We need stability.
I just hope that people will like me
EwingsGlass
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12/15/2005  12:12 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I wouldn't fire either of them. I would let these guys see the plan through. No more firings. We need stability.

If you phrase it in the form of a prediction, I would support it...
You know I gonna spin wit it
Bippity10
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12/15/2005  12:18 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by Bippity10:

I wouldn't fire either of them. I would let these guys see the plan through. No more firings. We need stability.

If you phrase it in the form of a prediction, I would support it...

Jealous
I just hope that people will like me
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Fire Isiah before he's allowed to do even more damage
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