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nyk4ever
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12/9/2005  3:45 PM
Posted by islesfan:


I'm not in the camp of people who insist on equating any player Isiah gets into the first overall pick, a lottery pick or a 1st round pick, in some sort of insane rationalization.

Whose talking about any player, I know some people think that Frye could have been a #1 but I don't. What other players do people insist could have been #1 picks?

Fact is, if Eddy Curry came out of college this year or last year he would have been the first pick in the draft. 6'11 270pounds with offensive skill = #1 pick in any draft besides a Lebron-type draft. I love Bogut but Curry would have went over Bogut last year and probably would have went over Dwight Howard before that.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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SlimPack
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12/9/2005  3:46 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:

I hate when people say that Curry would be the first pick if he were drafted today. Based on what hypothetical? That nobody else currently in the NBA came out too? You mean if Curry could take his 4 years of NBA experience and be in a draft solely with collegiate players? I'd still take Rudy Gay ahead of Curry.

What if you took all NBA players with 4 years or less of NBA experience, would Curry still be first? Not even close.

So please stop making up ridiculous hypotheticals just to make this trade look better than it is.

The Knicks got a starting center for the next 10 years for Sweetney, a lottery pick in a weak draft and two 2nd rounders. I'm not saying the Knicks hosed the Bulls but I think thats a pretty good trade for a 23 year old center that will be a fixture in the Knicks lineup for the next 10 years.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-09-2005 3:35 PM]

how good or bad the eddy curry trade is depends mostly on how good we do this year and next year. if the knicks dont make the playoffs this year and next year than the eddy curry trade is one of the worst in knicks history, but if we make the playoffs this year AND next its actually a prett good trade. but the thing is Im not sure if the knicks can make the playoffs this year.
islesfan
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12/9/2005  3:51 PM
Posted by Knight:

^Curry was a lottery pick, it's not a rationalization. What if had traded the same pick for Chris Paul? It's trading a future lottery pick for a present one.

Sweetney was a lottery pick so they did trade one lottery pick for another.

Not only that but they traded 1 other future lottery pick plus a swap of picks the following year for that present lottery pick with the bad heart.

So that's 1 current and 2 possible lottery picks for 1 current one.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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12/9/2005  3:53 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by islesfan:


I'm not in the camp of people who insist on equating any player Isiah gets into the first overall pick, a lottery pick or a 1st round pick, in some sort of insane rationalization.

Whose talking about any player, I know some people think that Frye could have been a #1 but I don't. What other players do people insist could have been #1 picks?

Fact is, if Eddy Curry came out of college this year or last year he would have been the first pick in the draft. 6'11 270pounds with offensive skill = #1 pick in any draft besides a Lebron-type draft. I love Bogut but Curry would have went over Bogut last year and probably would have went over Dwight Howard before that.

So you're saying that Curry would have been the #1 pick assuming nobody better than him was also included in that draft. Can you qualify it any further? How about if Curry was the only player who was allowed to be drafted, he definitely would have been the #1 pick.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
gunsnewing
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12/9/2005  3:53 PM
its interesting that Curry went #4 behind Kwame, Chandler & Pau. Those 2 previous teams obviously saw some holes in his game because you'd figure a 6-11 300LB center compared to Shaq would go #1. So with that said I don't think Curry would've been picked ahead of Rudy Gay, Chris Paul, Marvin Williams and maybe Bogut. If Curry doesn't improve on his weakness like defending and staying on the floor all those guys could turn out to be better players.

As long as Chicago doesn't win the lottery we're all good because I think the only guy I'd take over Curry is Gay. I don't think I'd take Morrison over him

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 12-09-2005 3:56 PM]
SlimPack
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12/9/2005  3:56 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Knight:

^Curry was a lottery pick, it's not a rationalization. What if had traded the same pick for Chris Paul? It's trading a future lottery pick for a present one.

Sweetney was a lottery pick so they did trade one lottery pick for another.

Not only that but they traded 1 other future lottery pick plus a swap of picks the following year for that present lottery pick with the bad heart.

So that's 1 current and 2 possible lottery picks for 1 current one.

even though what you say is true that were giving up 1 lottery pick and 2 potential lottery picks for just one lottery pick in exchange, you have to keep in mind that not all lottery picks are equal. the reason why isiah made this trade is because he feels that curry is a very good lottery pick out of potentially worse ones at the same draft spotand is therefore worth the risk. do you think that kwame brown for shaquille oneal is a good trade? of course not, even though their both no. 1 overall picks, not all no. 1 picks are the same, similarly not all lottery picks are the same.






[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-09-2005 4:04 PM]
nyk4ever
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12/9/2005  3:57 PM
Posted by islesfan:


So you're saying that Curry would have been the #1 pick assuming nobody better than him was also included in that draft. Can you qualify it any further? How about if Curry was the only player who was allowed to be drafted, he definitely would have been the #1 pick.

Sarcasm.

Had Curry went to college and came out last year, I think its pretty damn certain he's the #1 pick and not Bogut. Thats the way I see it and I obviuously thats the way Isiah sees it as well becuase he gave up alot for Curry, expecting to get alot in return and I think he will. I for one certainly am not into judging teams, players, or coaches taking part in a rebuilding project after 19 games.





[Edited by - nyk4ever on 12-09-2005 4:10 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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12/9/2005  4:03 PM
like most trades, the curry one can't really be fully evaluated for at least another year, probably more. curry's just a baby basketball-wise so let's see what happens, shall we?
islesfan
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12/9/2005  4:04 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Knight:

^Curry was a lottery pick, it's not a rationalization. What if had traded the same pick for Chris Paul? It's trading a future lottery pick for a present one.

Sweetney was a lottery pick so they did trade one lottery pick for another.

Not only that but they traded 1 other future lottery pick plus a swap of picks the following year for that present lottery pick with the bad heart.

So that's 1 current and 2 possible lottery picks for 1 current one.

even though what you say is true that were giving up 1 lottery pick and 2 potential lottery picks for one lottery pick, you have to keep in mind that not all lottery picks are equal. the reason why isiah made this trade is because he feels that curry is a very good lottery pick out of potentially worse ones and is therefore worth the risk. do you think that kwame brown for shaquille oneal is a good trade? of course not, even though their both no. 1 overall picks, not all no. 1 picks are the same, similarly not all lottery picks are the same.


[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-09-2005 4:02 PM]

I assume you're talking to Knight because he was the one bringing up trading lottery pick for lottery pick. I was just using his example.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
SlimPack
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12/9/2005  4:06 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Knight:

^Curry was a lottery pick, it's not a rationalization. What if had traded the same pick for Chris Paul? It's trading a future lottery pick for a present one.

Sweetney was a lottery pick so they did trade one lottery pick for another.

Not only that but they traded 1 other future lottery pick plus a swap of picks the following year for that present lottery pick with the bad heart.

So that's 1 current and 2 possible lottery picks for 1 current one.

even though what you say is true that were giving up 1 lottery pick and 2 potential lottery picks for one lottery pick, you have to keep in mind that not all lottery picks are equal. the reason why isiah made this trade is because he feels that curry is a very good lottery pick out of potentially worse ones and is therefore worth the risk. do you think that kwame brown for shaquille oneal is a good trade? of course not, even though their both no. 1 overall picks, not all no. 1 picks are the same, similarly not all lottery picks are the same.


[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-09-2005 4:02 PM]

I assume you're talking to Knight because he was the one bringing up trading lottery pick for lottery pick. I was just using his example.

oh, I thought you were saying that the curry trade was bad becuase, he's just one lottery pick, and we had to give up potentially 3 to get him. but if you werent then never mind
Knight
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12/9/2005  4:06 PM
Some people act like future draft picks are a sure thing--there are more busts every year than anything--we got a known commodity, a 22 year old talented big man
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
SlimPack
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12/9/2005  4:10 PM
Posted by Knight:

Some people act like future draft picks are a sure thing--there are more busts every year than anything--we got a known commodity, a 22 year old talented big man

I just hope that curry continues to improve his defense and rebounding. which so far he seems to be doing(he had 11 rebounds and 3 blocks against the clips). if he doesnt then Im going to start questioning the trade. wait what was this thread originally about?

[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-09-2005 4:12 PM]
gunsnewing
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12/9/2005  4:11 PM
Posted by Knight:

Some people act like future draft picks are a sure thing--there are more busts every year than anything--we got a known commodity, a 22 year old talented big man


that argument definitely works if you are acquiring an established 38min allstar like a KG. Then you throw the farm at them but Curry I don't know. Way to many holes to work on so its debatable. I just hope everything works out. Curry becomes a consistent 38min allstar and better than any player drafted during the next 2yrs
Knight
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12/9/2005  4:12 PM
^We didn't throw the farm unless your thinking of Sweetney as a dairy cow.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
gunsnewing
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12/9/2005  4:16 PM
Posted by Knight:

^We didn't throw the farm unless your thinking of Sweetney as a dairy cow.

I'm talking about when we look back 3yrs from we have to hope we didn't miss out on a special player. Hopefully Curry can finally breakout that way we don't have to worry about it. If by the end of the year and next year Curry still can't stay on the court because of weight and conditioning issues and his defense continues to suffer I will not be a happy camper
Knight
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12/9/2005  4:21 PM
^38 minutes last game. He'll be fine. Everyone knows the story why he's not in game shape.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
gunsnewing
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12/9/2005  4:35 PM
Posted by Knight:

^38 minutes last game. He'll be fine. Everyone knows the story why he's not in game shape.


but even last year when he was he only averaged 28mins. It's a bit of a concern imo. Let's see if he can hold up for another 38mins tonight. back to back 30+min games would be a HUGE step in the right direction
codeunknown
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12/10/2005  4:33 PM
What happens in the unlikely event that NY has a pick >25 and SA has a pick <11? In that scenario, how are we to compensate Chicago?
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
jaydh
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12/10/2005  6:03 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by SlimPack:

the bulls get our pick at the end of this season no matter what, also they can swap picks with us next season, if the dont swap with us next season, then they can do it the season after. at this particular point theres no way we can get oden. so lets just hope he turns out to be a bust.

[Edited by - SlimPack on 12-09-2005 2:29 PM]

i know there is some conidition in which utah may get our pick instead.


are you absolutely positively sure??? because you just made my blood boil! I'm pretty sure its the other scenario
Knight
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12/10/2005  6:08 PM
Posted by codeunknown:

What happens in the unlikely event that NY has a pick >25 and SA has a pick <11? In that scenario, how are we to compensate Chicago?

This is confusing, it seems as long as Utah doesn't get our pick, Chicago gets it. That still leaves us with San Antonio's, as long as they don't end up in the lottery. So we do have a first rounder. Right? Edit: I know that doesn't answer the above question, but it is good to know we might have a first round pick.

[Edited by - Knight on 12-10-2005 6:10 PM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
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