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By the way, Marbury was great today wasn't he?
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Nalod
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11/28/2005  9:02 AM
Craw left to his own devices is one of the leagues premier chuckers.

AUTOADVERT
franco12
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11/28/2005  9:24 AM
A lot of this argument is because everyone has a different definition of 'chucker'. To me, anyone who shoots a lot is a 'chucker' and AI & Kobe & Tmac all qualify.

The thing with Iverson is the large number of ft's he takes removes from his shooting percentage a lot of bad, missed shots that he gets bailed out on- he gets a lot of calls because he is small and bounces off guys- kobe & tmac don't get bailed like that.

he does drive a lot- but a lot of bad shot attempts get erased statisitically and turned into fts...
oohah
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11/28/2005  9:32 AM
I chose Kobe and TMac because they are regarded as the cream of the crop in terms of scoring guards in the league. Maybe now you add Arenas to that. But since ooha answered my question

Fishmik, why do you always leave off the last 'H' of my alias? Is it purposeful?

I don't have the time right now to post Arenas' stats, but if you take a look at them you will see that he has most certainly evolved into a chucker.

There is no flaw to the arguement at all? Who are the best scoring guards in the league, and which one's arent chuckers?

You tell me...

So since ooha has established that Kobe, Tmac and AI are ALL chuckers it doesnt matter.

The reason the argument is flawed is that regardless of what position they are listed at, the only similarity between these players is that they shoot a lot. Outside of that they are not similar. (Arenas is more similar to AI than McGrady or Bryant.)

Those are some pretty great players to slap such a deragatory label on but thats your opinion.

So since these guys are excellent players they can't be chuckers? I am not sure what the basis of your complaint is here. Anyway, the unfortunate truth is that we are watching an era of chucking as we write. Did you watch Kobe last night? Please don't tell me he wasn't chucking. Now if you are arguing that Kobe or Bryant need to chuck because of the team they are playing with, I might agree.

AI isnt my hero. But I have followed his career a bit and seen him live probably 10 times or so. People that write off what he does as just a little guy that chucks up a ton of shots are selling him short. Larry Brown said himself you cant stop him. Whats even more interesting is you would be hard pressed to find a coach that loathes bad shots MORE than Larry Brown, yet when Larry coached AI he put a system in place that had AI taking 30 shots a game. Maybe he changed his philosophy because AI is a special chucker, or maybe he just understood that when you take 30 shots a game a handfull are going to be suspect, but that handfull is probably going to be offset by the 10+ FTs he's taking.

Okay!

Sure AI could shoot less and have a higher FT%. But the teams he's played on have always needed his scoring to be successfull. A gimpy Webber is probably the best big he's ever had. He's never had a Shaq or Yao that was good for much higher % shots.

You may have just explained why AI is a chucker.

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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11/28/2005  9:46 AM
Ive always thought of a chucker as someone who's bad shot selection hurts their team.

Iverson, Kobe, Tmac, Pierce IMO are the league's premier "bad shot takers"

But are those bad shots hurting their team? Not IMO but thats just my impression from watching. Maybe there are some stats that paint a different picture
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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11/28/2005  9:47 AM
Fishmik, why do you always leave off the last 'H' of my alias? Is it purposeful?
sorry
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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11/28/2005  9:50 AM
the unfortunate truth is that we are watching an era of chucking as we write.
I guess our arguement is over the definition of a chucker, not whether AI does or doesnt.

Your right and there is a simple explanation. The rules have changed. You cant lean into and smother guys on the perimeter anymore. You cant hand check. Guys on the wing get more space and the game has evolved accordingly. Its easier to get better shots on the wing so you see a lot more of them. Some shooters are better than others.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
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11/28/2005  9:59 AM
What is the purpose of the last 'H'? Isn't it silent?

It is the proper spelling for the pronunciation. Think of it as "ooh-ah", like the sound a crowd makes when Vince Carter dunks, except faster. If you leave off the last H it becomes "ooh-ha". if you leave out the H's it becomes "oowa"

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
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11/28/2005  10:11 AM
If you leave off the last H it becomes "ooh-ha".
see? Thats how I always said it in my mind.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knight
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11/28/2005  10:14 AM
Posted by fishmike:
If you leave off the last H it becomes "ooh-ha".
see? Thats how I always said it in my mind.

Me too. You need a space or a dash in there.

[Edited by - Knight on 11-28-2005 10:16 AM]
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
oohah
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11/28/2005  6:14 PM
see? Thats how I always said it in my mind.
Me too. You need a space or a dash in there.

Nah, it's not that big of a deal.

I would be interested in how others mind-pronounce my alias.

Just so you guys know I always mind-pronounced your names Kuh-nite and fish-micky!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 11-28-2005 6:15 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bonn1997
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11/28/2005  6:35 PM
I always thought it was ooh-ha too
I like it now that I understand it but I don't think anyone got it before this thread. You could probably ask Martin and Andrew if a dash could be inserted after the 1st h.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-28-2005 6:36 PM]
oohah
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11/28/2005  6:36 PM
But are those bad shots hurting their team? Not IMO but thats just my impression from watching. Maybe there are some stats that paint a different picture

I think the stat that proves it is championships. My feeling is that the "chuck to win" philosophy cannot succeed in a title or even in a memorable team in the long run. You will always run into a better "team", who will contain you or outscore you. It pisses off your teammates, and it takes its toll on the designated chucker.

To me a guy like Jason Kidd is better than Kobe, McGrady or Iverson, and it is a crying shame he didn't get an MVP in one of his back to back title runs.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bonn1997
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11/28/2005  6:51 PM
Sure AI could shoot less and have a higher FT%. But the teams he's played on have always needed his scoring to be successfull. A gimpy Webber is probably the best big he's ever had. He's never had a Shaq or Yao that was good for much higher % shots.
He's had plenty of good (but not great scorers), but that's not the point. He SHOULDN'T be taking five 3s a game and another five 2s near the perimeter. Dalembert can probably score more effectively in the post than Iverson can shooting 3s. Iverson's like a less intelligent Dwyane Wade on offense. Wade knows he's outstanding at attacking the basket but simply is not a perimeter shooter and almost never takes 3s. Iverson could be just as efficient a scorer as Wade is if he had similar shot selection to Wade's.
By the way, Marbury was great today wasn't he?

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