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Ariza is becoming a star before our eyes
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knicksmsg33
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11/7/2005  11:24 AM
Posted by oohah:
Ariza is already a star for us, , i know he is not there offensively right now, but as the season goes on, there will be more calls and shots for him to take and he will maximize on that. A Star is by each one's perspective, to me Ariza is already a star and i love the kid. If we could get Ariza to start and Barnes backing him up, it will help to advance his game much more than it is now. I mean look at Andre Igu. he got soo much better with playing time as did Marion and RJ. so if Ariza can get his 25mpg we will see what he has to deliver and he doesn't have to score 20pts to be a star, 12 rebounds, 3-5 steals, 1-2 blocks and say 5pts is a star to me, look at AK47, he doesn't score all that much, it is what he brings to his team that makes him so much of a star, adn Ariza brings some of that quality of play, he is not there fully, but give the youngest knick in franchise history and he will deliver.

Well said. I Especially agree with your comparison to Kirilenko, and how Ariza needs playing time to develop and shine.

oohah

that is the only way his game is going to get better,
and i am sure Larry will utilize that much better, by putting a shooter on the other side of Ariza, for teams are playing him, trying to stop him from driving to the hoop, which should give us a sec or two, where marbury, crawford or richardson is open for a 2pt or 3pt shot.

the other night he played 30minutes and was spectular, i was expecting 12 rebounds, but he fell short to only 7, but i just loves what he brings to the team, even when he messes up, i just cheer for him cause he won't be messing up for too long, he has pleased us and will continue to please us, i would hope that Allen Houston could give him some pointers on his jump shot and we will have our #43 as starting SF #21 for MSG

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Knight
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11/7/2005  11:27 AM
Do you know how easy it would be to shut down Ariza if other teams were really worried about him? Make sure you box him out, give him room to shoot, and stay in front of him on defense. He's a solid player but never a star.
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
Bonn1997
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11/7/2005  11:36 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

just to clarify the thread, and I think some are in agreement, becoming a star could simply mean makes the all star team.
That's what I had in mind when we were talking about being a star.
Magliore made the All Star team and people here don't view him as a star.
Talent is much more sparse at the C position. An SG/SF with the impact on the game that Magloire has will never make an all-star team. Occasionally Cs with that degree of impact will, though.


tkf
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11/7/2005  11:36 AM
Posted by fishmike:

whats a star? Amare? Bron? Melo? Is Ariza going to be like those guys?

He's a good young player, and nice prospect. I would be thrilled if he's the next Gerald Wallace. Why does everyone have to become a star? He's got no handle and an ugly jumper. He dribbles with his head down into 3 defenders. Lets not overdramatize here. I like him too, ALOT. I would be thrilled with a 12/8/3 type of guy that defends well. THAT would be awesome. Hopefully the guy that will become a star is Curry.


exactly, if curry becomes a star and ariza a 12/8/3 guy along with guys like frye, lee and nate, the knicks will run the east.. everyone can't be a star, and you don't need a team full of stars to win...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/7/2005  11:45 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
He's already 10/6 coming off the bench (and he's only 20!!!) and he defends exceptionally...i guess that means you are thrilled...now go to another thread and be negative there.
and look at the pot calling the kettle dramatic.
20 year olds don't improve. Fish said it himself. If he's 10/6 now having just turned 20, 12/8 is a perfectly reasonable cap

bonn, that is not the case, just because a guy is 10-6 now doesn't mean that his numbers will increase exponentially over the years... if that is the case then lebron will be averaging somewhere near 80ppg by time he is 30... Ariza will get a lot better, it will show up in his stats, but also in other areas, like passing, ball handling, etc, and that doesn't necessarily have to translate into increased stats.... Fish is not saying he won't get better, but 12/8/3 is pretty good for any player in this league. If he does better, then it is gravy for us..


Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/7/2005  11:57 AM
oohah: you make some excellent points...

lets take ben wallace for example, has no post game, no handles, no jumper, average passer, yet he is a star in this league, he dominates the game from the defensive end and on the boards. he does all the other little things well, and when you combine that,it makes a hell of a player... I think ariza is a unusual player, because he seems to float around the court and makes an impact, and he seems to do this without running plays for him... Almost a poor mans ron artest, who let me remind you is not the most skilled player in the league... The key is with guys like ariza, you look up and you see him everywhere, on the boards, finishing a dunk, stealing a pass, and the next thig you know, your team is ahead.. I will take a player like that any friggin day of the week, and twice on sundays...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
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11/7/2005  12:11 PM
Do you know how easy it would be to shut down Ariza if other teams were really worried about him?

No, How easy?

Make sure you box him out, give him room to shoot, and stay in front of him on defense. .

I guess you mean to diminish Ariza's success so far by implying that no one is paying attention to him. Let us just say that is true. They are going to have to start paying him attention soon because he is producing!

He's a solid player but never a star

That is your prediction? You don't even think star potential is in him?

oohah: you make some excellent points...
lets take ben wallace for example, has no post game, no handles, no jumper, average passer, yet he is a star in this league, he dominates the game from the defensive end and on the boards. he does all the other little things well, and when you combine that,it makes a hell of a player... I think ariza is a unusual player, because he seems to float around the court and makes an impact, and he seems to do this without running plays for him... Almost a poor mans ron artest, who let me remind you is not the most skilled player in the league... The key is with guys like ariza, you look up and you see him everywhere, on the boards, finishing a dunk, stealing a pass, and the next thig you know, your team is ahead.. I will take a player like that any friggin day of the week, and twice on sundays...

The only thing I would disagree with is your assessment of Artest's skill level. He has one skill that most people don't notice: He is an excellent passer. He is also ambidextrous handling the ball and shooting around the basket. Add to that his intensity and you have a star. By the way, I'll bet a lot of people never thought Artest would be a star at the NBA level. I did, but I live and die with St. Johns basketball.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Knight
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11/7/2005  12:12 PM
Did you realize he would be a nutcase as well?
"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
oohah
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11/7/2005  12:26 PM
Did you realize he would be a nutcase as well?

I had my suspicions. Artest had a domestic violence issue while he ws at St. Johns, but I don't remember him doing anything nuts while playing. But at the press conferences you could see that he very poor verbal (Academic?) skills, and furthermore something was just not 'right'.

But I never predicted Artest would be THIS crazy. I did think Erick Barkley might be.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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11/7/2005  12:27 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by rvhoss:

just to clarify the thread, and I think some are in agreement, becoming a star could simply mean makes the all star team.
That's what I had in mind when we were talking about being a star.
Magliore made the All Star team and people here don't view him as a star.
Talent is much more sparse at the C position. An SG/SF with the impact on the game that Magloire has will never make an all-star team. Occasionally Cs with that degree of impact will, though.


If that's the case then your definition of being a star is severely flawed. It's more a product of the competition for an all star spot in your conference than it is on ability.

But based on your own definition and your opinion that there is a lot of depth at SG/SF, it will be even less likely that Ariza will be a star.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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11/7/2005  12:41 PM
Posted by oohah:

By the way, I'll bet a lot of people never thought Artest would be a star at the NBA level. I did


Congratulations
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
efw
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11/7/2005  1:02 PM
People are too narrow-minded in their definition of a star. If he's a star to us then he's a star. He won't be a superstar. In other words he won't be a top ten or even 20 player. He won't get multimillion dollar endorsment deals.

But how many defensive stars are there in the league? I don't think he's ever going to be dominant on offense, but he can definitely be dominant on defense. From what I've seen, he has all the tools and potential to be one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. He can defend man-to-man and as a help defender. As people have said, he's like a mini Camby. He could easlily become a defensive star.
tkf
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11/7/2005  1:02 PM
The only thing I would disagree with is your assessment of Artest's skill level. He has one skill that most people don't notice: He is an excellent passer. He is also ambidextrous handling the ball and shooting around the basket. Add to that his intensity and you have a star. By the way, I'll bet a lot of people never thought Artest would be a star at the NBA level. I did, but I live and die with St. Johns basketball.

oohah


Oohah: I guess what I meant to say is that artest doesn't have a great verticle, is not a great shooter, really is not a flashy guy, I mean all of the things people "think" stars are supposed to do or be... Yet he does a lot of other things well, and like you said when you add that up, it makes into a fine NBA star.. I would take him over T-mac, vince, jefferson,dirk, and a lot of other so called stars in this league...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
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11/7/2005  2:49 PM
Oohah: I guess what I meant to say is that artest doesn't have a great verticle, is not a great shooter, really is not a flashy guy, I mean all of the things people "think" stars are supposed to do or be... Yet he does a lot of other things well, and like you said when you add that up, it makes into a fine NBA star.. I would take him over T-mac, vince, jefferson,dirk, and a lot of other so called stars in this league...

I see your point and you are right about how Artest's well-rounded game made him into a star.

Congratulations

You must have felt 'zinged' by me if you were compelled into entering a discussion between myself and TKF with nothing more to offer but a snyde comment. I am still wating for you to tell us why Ariza doesn't have star potential. Something tells me you can't.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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11/7/2005  3:02 PM
"zinged"? No, not particularly. I was just reading the thread and thought that comment was rather self congratulatory so I figured I'd give you the validation that you seem to be seeking.

Funny but I'm still waiting for someone to tell us why a backup with very undeveloped basic basketball skills is going to be a star.

Of course you could say that any young player is going to be a star based on the assumption that they're going to improve but I'm assuming you have more than that.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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11/7/2005  3:07 PM
Posted by oohah:
Oohah: I guess what I meant to say is that artest doesn't have a great verticle, is not a great shooter, really is not a flashy guy, I mean all of the things people "think" stars are supposed to do or be... Yet he does a lot of other things well, and like you said when you add that up, it makes into a fine NBA star.. I would take him over T-mac, vince, jefferson,dirk, and a lot of other so called stars in this league...
I see your point and you are right about how Artest's well-rounded game made him into a star.

Congratulations

You must have felt 'zinged' by me if you were compelled into entering a discussion between myself and TKF with nothing more to offer but a snyde comment. I am still wating for you to tell us why Ariza doesn't have star potential. Something tells me you can't.

oohah


BTW, you entered a discussion between rv and I earlier with nothing more than what I can only assume was a "snyde comment". Congrats on being a hypocrite as well.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
oohah
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11/7/2005  3:29 PM
"zinged"? No, not particularly. I was just reading the thread and thought that comment was rather self congratulatory so I figured I'd give you the validation that you seem to be seeking.

Yeah right. You felt zinged and now you are flailing. Poorly I might add.

Funny but I'm still waiting for someone to tell us why a backup with very undeveloped basic basketball skills is going to be a star.

You must not have been reading. Ariza has come out of nowhere and become a player who makes an impact. He is already a good player, as raw as he is. He is young and will almost certainly improve. I didn't write he "is going to be a star", I wrote he has star potential. I am sorry (for you) if you don't understand that distinction.

Of course you could say that any young player is going to be a star based on the assumption that they're going to improve but I'm assuming you have more than that.

I do have more than that. Go back and try reading this time. I prefer not to retype when all of the info is above this post.

BTW, you entered a discussion between rv and I earlier with nothing more than what I can only assume was a "snyde comment". Congrats on being a hypocrite as well.

Are you writing about when I pointed out your comments had nothing to do with basketball, but rather semantics? At least that had something to do with what we were talking about. And now you are name-calling in addition to your precious little 'congratulations' remark. How sad for you, this is par for the course from what I have seen from your posts.

***

In a totally unrelated comment islesfan, do you ever find that some members on internet forums really don't care about the topic at hand, but rather are straining for the attention they are unable to attain in everyday life? And therefore they desire all kinds of attention: anger, ridicule, it doesn't matter. Don't you feel bad for people like that? I find these types of people pitiable...

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
islesfan
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11/7/2005  3:56 PM
Yeah right. You felt zinged and now you are flailing. Poorly I might add.

No but if this is another case of you feeling the need for some sort of validation then go right ahead and think that.

You must not have been reading. Ariza has come out of nowhere and become a player who makes an impact. He is already a good player, as raw as he is. He is young and will almost certainly improve. I didn't write he "is going to be a star", I wrote he has star potential. I am sorry (for you) if you don't understand that distinction.

Umm ok, like I said using those guidelines then you can say the same for any young player in the league. How about Matt Barnes? Does he have "star potential" too?

I do have more than that. Go back and try reading this time. I prefer not to retype when all of the info is above this post.

No, all you have is the hope that he'll improve. All young players in the NBA have some skill or they wouldn't be in the league but what separates Ariza from all the others? Apparently your hopes and dreams. It's going to be a pretty clear night tonight, maybe you can find a shooting star and wish that Ariza will become a star. That's pretty much what you're doing here.

Are you writing about when I pointed out your comments had nothing to do with basketball, but rather semantics? At least that had something to do with what we were talking about.

Sure it did. Oh wait, I forgot, only you're allowed to make "snyde" remarks in a discussion that had nothing to do with you. Sorry, my bad.

In a totally unrelated comment islesfan, do you ever find that some members on internet forums really don't care about the topic at hand, but rather are straining for the attention they are unable to attain in everyday life? And therefore they desire all kinds of attention: anger, ridicule, it doesn't matter. Don't you feel bad for people like that? I find these types of people pitiable...

Funny but I was thinking the same thing. And yes, that is very sad but hey, at least you saw Artest becoming a star when most people didn't.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
NotFrye
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11/7/2005  4:08 PM
just make out already
rvhoss
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11/7/2005  4:11 PM
ROFLMFAO!!!

Posted by NotFrye:

just make out already


all kool aid all the time.
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