Posted by djsunyc:

isiah has turned over the roster twice. and there's another roster turnover on the horizon. so at what point do we stop saying he's trying to work his way out of layden's mess and that he's now trying to work his way out of his own?

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by Bonn1997:

I agree, Oohah. The Knicks didn't underachieve last year in the sense that they had one great starter, four below average starters, a mediocre bench, and a mediocre coach. That's basically a 33 win team.

So your saying despite the fact that Isiah invested over $200mm in future salary last year the talent level was that of a 33 win roster. Interesting.

Sure; that's the way to look at it if you're impatient and can't understand that rebuilding takes a lot more than one season. I expect a lot of casual fans to look at it that way and go whichever way the wind blows. One minute to them Isiah is a complete "disaster"; the next, he's made some nice moves; it goes back and forth nonstop because they don't appreciate that rebuilding is never a perfectly smooth project but rather has ups and downs.
[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08-30-2005 10:19 AM]

That's the type of mentality that gave us all those years of Layden.

no team wants the players he has

I thought Sweetney had a post game until someone corrected me.

I am a casual fan

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by Bonn1997:

I agree, Oohah. The Knicks didn't underachieve last year in the sense that they had one great starter, four below average starters, a mediocre bench, and a mediocre coach. That's basically a 33 win team.

So your saying despite the fact that Isiah invested over $200mm in future salary last year the talent level was that of a 33 win roster. Interesting.

Sure; that's the way to look at it if you're impatient and can't understand that rebuilding takes a lot more than one season. I expect a lot of casual fans to look at it that way and go whichever way the wind blows. One minute to them Isiah is a complete "disaster"; the next, he's made some nice moves; it goes back and forth nonstop because they don't appreciate that rebuilding is never a perfectly smooth project but rather has ups and downs.
[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08-30-2005 10:19 AM]

That's the type of mentality that gave us all those years of Layden.

I agree that expecting the results of rebuilding to be evident in the very first year (like Fish was mentioning) is the exact mentality of Layden

First of all, how can you agree with something that I never said?

Secondly, how exactly was that Layden's mentality? I don't remember him saying that he wants results "now", unlike Isiah who is on record saying exactly that.

I love how you change the topic and distort the topic you've changed the discussion to.

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by Bonn1997:

I agree, Oohah. The Knicks didn't underachieve last year in the sense that they had one great starter, four below average starters, a mediocre bench, and a mediocre coach. That's basically a 33 win team.

So your saying despite the fact that Isiah invested over $200mm in future salary last year the talent level was that of a 33 win roster. Interesting.

$200 million is a nice, big fat number to lay on Isiah and brand him a failure, but the fact is, that salary commitment stretches out over the next 4 to 6 years. You can harp all you want about the cap being destroyed, but if Allan, Penny and Tim were to expire/retire - the team's salary would be right around $68 million per year. Zeke has added about $20 million to the yearly salary structure Layden had in place, but you have to realize that Layden's $80 million would have gone up too. Everyone on the roster gets at a raise of 10% to 12% every year, meaning that Layden's $80 million would have easily risen over two years to $96 million for this season.

People are acting like Layden would have blown up the team and let the expiring contracts go away? Please. Layden was more manipulated by Dolan than anyone. At least Isiah has shown an ability to do things his way. The team has more young talent that at anytime since the Pitino years. The cap is screwed right now, but WHEN Allan retires and IF Isiah lets Penny expire (I'm guessing he'll trade the Timmy contract with Sweetney for a comparable amount of salary), next season, the payroll will be back in the $80 million range, which, given the amount of inflation in league salaries, is actually BETTER than Layden's last season.

The cap situation is bad for the moment, but clearly it hasn't made the roster inflexible. Clearly it hasn't prevented us from drafting young talent. What would cap room have done? Would it have allowed the Knicks to sign anyone better than Marbury? I sincerely, sincerely doubt it. Kobe wasn't going to leave $40 million on the table to switch coasts. Nope.

the cap will be fine by the beginning of next season and we will be one of the most loaded teams in the league in terms of talent with a great coach.

For the record:

1) Miami
2) Detroit
3) Indiana
4) Nets
5) Cavs
6) Knicks
7) Wizards
8) Bulls
9) Sixers
10) Bucks
11) Orlando
12) Boston
13) Atlanta
14) Toronto
15) Charlotte

Posted by rvhoss:

this summer, fish has gone crazy...that's just MHO.

I joined BECAUSE of fish...I loved his enthusiasm, loved his sig, he convinced me to join the board by his enthusiasm for the kool aid alone...

Now he's basically Isle's fan reincarnate...maybe he liked Kurt, maybe he liked nazr, but for sure, he's all negativity.

and yes, I'm speaking specifically of Fish.

So your saying despite the fact that Isiah invested over $200mm in future salary last year the talent level was that of a 33 win roster. Interesting.