[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

man in the middle (article)
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 3 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
8/25/2005  11:36 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

nobody questioned KTs minutes. The question is why with in a toilet season were we seeing TT/Rose/Mo T playing more minutes than Ariza and Sweetney.

Either we are commited to being "young and athletic" or we arent.
Isiah's said he's committed to young and athletic but also been very clear that players have to EARN their minutes. (That's what he said.) Sweetney may have put up nice stats in the games he played a lot of minutes, but he still was giving up a lot of points and a very high FG%. Maybe it's not such a bad thing for Sweetney to go into the summer knowing, "I must get in better shape if I ever want to play more than 20 mpg." Isiah had to earn every minute he got and that's probably the way he believes it should be for all players.

And that's where Isiah is, how do I politely say it, FULL OF ISHT. If that were the case, then Tim Thomas would have been on the bench for 48 minutes a game, and Ariza would have been the starting sf. Prove me otherwise. He's a used car salesman.


“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/25/2005  12:22 PM
Maybe he wanted to increase the trade value of TT's expiring contract? Maybe he didn't want Ariza's value to go too high because we don't have his Bird rights? I agree, though, that if there were no considerations other than how the player plays, Ariza should have gotten more minutes than TT.
diderotn
Posts: 25657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/15/2004
Member: #650
USA
8/25/2005  12:42 PM
Let's forget about the past....I am excited about next season, because I no longer have to watch Kurt in a Knicks jersey
The true Knickabocker..........
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
8/25/2005  1:31 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Let's forget about the past....I am excited about next season, because I no longer have to watch Kurt in a Knicks jersey
what will you do if he's ever traded back to NY?

diderotn
Posts: 25657
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/15/2004
Member: #650
USA
8/25/2005  1:50 PM
man! don't scare me like that...
The true Knickabocker..........
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
8/25/2005  2:11 PM
All I can say is wow. Those are off the charts numbers. Its 10 games but I take something from this, and thats the more time Sweetney is on the floor, the LESS he fouls and more productive he becomes.

I think maybe you are looking at the minutes/fouls the wrong way. The reason he was able to stay on the floor more minutes and produce was because he fouled less. That is to say, more minutes did not get Sweetney less fouls, less fouls got him more minutes.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 08-25-2005 2:29 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
8/25/2005  2:46 PM
oohah, your off on that. Look at his game log. There are TONS of games where he only played 10-18 minutes and didnt pick up any fouls or if he did maybe 2 or 3. Sweetney is a rythm guy. He needs touches and to be comfortable. Heck... some of those 10 games I posted he had a lot of fouls, some he didnt, but all say the same thing. Give him minutes and he will produce and produce well. There isnt one bad shooting game in there

This was his worst shooting game: vs. Phili 2-5 10/9 and 3 fouls in 32 minutes

The problem was all minutes and all touches. Guys that score like MS shouldnt be yanked after a 1-5 first quarter for Mo Taylor or Malik Rose... because he's going to go 5-6 and draw 3 fouls the next qtr.

I will go out on a limb and say half of Sweetney's fouls are because he's out of position. The only way to correct that is with playing time.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
8/25/2005  2:56 PM
Mainly off the ball, doing stuff like guarding screen and rolls. That's really his main weakness on D. Guarding his man off the ball, if he's moving around on the perimeter. He can body up with anyone in the post, but I guess this is where getting in shape will help him, b/c he already runs the court well. But everyone has to face it at a few points during the game, so he might as well learn to do well at it early. A lot of players never became good at the art of guarding off the ball. Heck, many of those guys are on the team now, like Allan, Stephon, Craw, Q, yada yada. It's very important for the big man to be at least a good help defender.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
8/25/2005  3:22 PM
It is funny, a lot of guys in here are salivating at the thought of trying to get Curry. Sweetney ate curry's lunch when i saw them play head to head. Curry could not guard him at all, it was either sweetney with a basket or foul. Why are some of us not ready to just give this guy the minutes. He has shown and fish pointed this out, that with minutes he is a big producer, plain and simple...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
8/25/2005  3:23 PM
oohah, your off on that. Look at his game log. There are TONS of games where he only played 10-18 minutes and didnt pick up any fouls or if he did maybe 2 or 3.

I don't think so. I looked at it: http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/players/player/gamelogs/2004/400574

You can't just look at the fouls. There are factors outside of fouls that determine playing time. From a quick eyeballing, his low minute, low foul games he did not amass many stats, so it looked like he wasn't adding much in those instances. (By the way 2-3 fouls in 18 minutes is an extremely high foul-per-minute rate.)

But I still hold firm: Saying playing more minutes got or will get Sweetney less fouls is wrong, and in fact impossible. What it does mean is that he played well in those particular games and earned more time, and was able to stay on the floor. Getting in shape and keeping his head will get Sweetney less fouls.

A good game for Sweetney requires 2 things: Being able to stay out of foul trouble, and then asserting himself. Many games we got one or the other, but very few did we get both. I think you have picked out his best games. By the way, I really don't think he needs that many touches. Sweetney needs to hit the glass!

Sweetney should get both his minutes and his touches this year, so we will see. But if Brown decides he doesn't deserve to play more than last year what will that mean to you?

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
purple012870
Posts: 21778
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2003
Member: #432
8/25/2005  3:35 PM
The thing is, Sweets looked pretty diesel last summer, supposedly in the best shape of his life. By mid-season, he looked like the fat slob (maybe that's too harsh) he was.

Also, how do you guys see how his weight adversely affects him? Slow feet on D? Not enougfh lift? The reason why I ask is that he's never been short on energy.
Caseloads
Posts: 27725
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/29/2001
Member: #41
8/25/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by purple012870:

The thing is, Sweets looked pretty diesel last summer, supposedly in the best shape of his life. By mid-season, he looked like the fat slob (maybe that's too harsh) he was.

Also, how do you guys see how his weight adversely affects him? Slow feet on D? Not enougfh lift? The reason why I ask is that he's never been short on energy.

everyone thinks that he'd be awesome with his lift, faster, better endurance (less fouls) if he lost weight.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
8/25/2005  4:12 PM
You can't just look at the fouls. There are factors outside of fouls that determine playing time. From a quick eyeballing, his low minute, low foul games he did not amass many stats, so it looked like he wasn't adding much in those instances. (By the way 2-3 fouls in 18 minutes is an extremely high foul-per-minute rate.)
but you essentially justy answered my point, that even if he gets off to a slow start or misses a couple shots early we should stick with him, because over a stretch he produces. Thats what I am saying... that Sweetney can have 10 quite minutes and not really do much, and he can follow that with 10 minutes of 4-5, 12 points and 5 rebounds. You will never see that if you have him on a quick leash. He's got to play extended minutes, and I see absolutely NO reason not to give them to him.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
8/25/2005  4:15 PM
I'm not worried about him losing a lot of weight. I'm worried about him fighting for position then not getting the ball. Thats work for every player no matter how in shape you are. If your not going to get the ball your not going to fight, plain and simple. Making the move is the easy part. Establishing position is the hard part. Watch away from the ball next time you go to a game. This doesnt apply to Bonn who doesnt buy tickets and doesnt care how high the payroll is.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
8/25/2005  5:00 PM
everyone thinks that he'd be awesome with his lift, faster, better endurance (less fouls) if he lost weight.

Not me. Weight is what allows Sweetney to play with taller players. His ass is his biggest ass-et down low. If he loses weight he will be short and pushed around. What he needs to do is GET IN SHAPE. There is a big difference. Would he be awesome? Maybe if turned into a Barkley quality of athlete. I'd settle for good right now.
but you essentially justy answered my point, that even if he gets off to a slow start or misses a couple shots early we should stick with him, because over a stretch he produces. Thats what I am saying... that Sweetney can have 10 quite minutes and not really do much, and he can follow that with 10 minutes of 4-5, 12 points and 5 rebounds. You will never see that if you have him on a quick leash. He's got to play extended minutes, and I see absolutely NO reason not to give them to him.

Okay, well he's got them now, so we'll see. If he can't make the PF position his this year then he can't take it any year.
I'm not worried about him losing a lot of weight. I'm worried about him fighting for position then not getting the ball.

I agree.

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Page 3 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 
« Reply To Topic
man in the middle (article)
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy