I do think the suns could of made more of a series out of it with the spurs if JJ had been there.
Quite possible.
And yes I like JJ more than marion and we are not realated at all...
Just checking... Anyway aren't we all brothers? :cumbaya:
Marion is a good player, slasher but come on with the olympic invite, heck Okafor got a olympic invite, so what..
I am just pointing out that Marion has gotten plenty of recognition for his accomplishments at the pro level, JJ has only begun to get any recognition, and for good reason, he has done not much at the pro level.
Okafor as a rookie was a better player than Joe Johnson any year of his career. If Okafor somehow ended up on the Suns they would be instant championship favorites.
Let's see if your opinions of JJ vs. Marion translate into stats. JJ and Marion are really only comparable the last 1.55 seasons, because because before that JJ was an average player. Now let's look at their career numbers:
Shawn Marion CAREER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS PER GAME
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
99-00 PHO 51 38 24.7 .471 .182 .847 2.1 4.5 6.5 1.4 .75 1.04 1.00 2.20 10.2
00-01 PHO 79 79 36.2 .480 .256 .810 2.8 7.9 10.7 2.0 1.67 1.37 1.63 2.70 17.3
01-02 PHO 81 81 38.4 .469 .393 .845 2.6 7.3 9.9 2.0 1.84 1.06 1.78 2.60 19.1
02-03 PHO 81 81 41.6 .452 .387 .851 2.5 7.1 9.5 2.4 2.28 1.17 1.94 2.60 21.2
03-04 PHO 79 79 40.7 .440 .340 .851 2.7 6.6 9.3 2.7 2.11 1.32 1.97 2.60 19.0
04-05 PHO 81 81 38.8 .476 .334 .833 2.9 8.4 11.3 1.9 2.01 1.47 1.54 2.50 19.4
Career 452 439 37.5 .463 .349 .838 2.6 7.1 9.8 2.1 1.85 1.20 1.69 2.50 18.2
Playoff 34 34 39.3 .433 .372 .811 2.9 7.7 10.6 1.3 1.29 1.68 1.38 2.80 15.2
All-Star 2 0 19.5 .563 .000 .000 4.0 1.0 5.0 4.0 1.50 .50 .50 .50 9.0
Joe Johnson CAREER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS PER GAME
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
01-02 BOS 48 33 20.9 .439 .273 .769 .8 2.1 2.9 1.5 .69 .19 .58 1.20 6.3
01-02 PHO 29 27 31.5 .420 .333 .778 1.2 2.9 4.1 3.6 .90 .38 1.48 1.90 9.6
01-02 -- 77 60 24.9 .430 .292 .774 1.0 2.4 3.3 2.3 .77 .26 .92 1.50 7.5
02-03 PHO 82 34 27.5 .397 .366 .774 .7 2.5 3.2 2.6 .76 .23 1.32 1.70 9.8
03-04 PHO 82 77 40.6 .430 .305 .750 1.0 3.7 4.7 4.4 1.13 .32 2.43 2.20 16.7
04-05 PHO 82 82 39.5 .461 .478 .750 1.5 3.7 5.1 3.5 .96 .29 1.80 2.00 17.1
Career 323 253 33.3 .433 .382 .757 1.0 3.1 4.1 3.2 .91 .20 1.63 1.90 12.9
Playoff 15 9 34.6 .438 .449 .658 .9 3.5 4.3 2.5 .93 .40 1.47 2.20 13.4
3 point persentage: Marion .349 JJ .382 Both were bad-to-okay 3 point shooters depending on the year until the past season when JJ's percentage skyrocketed. I am not ready to say JJ is a better shooter, especially based on their numbers he may be. Good thing too, because JJ is a shooting guard.
Assists: Marion's 2.1, JJ 3.1 More for JJ, but not exactly a landslide, especially considering he is a guard.
Field goal percentage: Marion .463, JJ .433 Not that much of a spread either.
Scoring: Marion 18.2, JJ 12.9 Big win for Marion in this category.
Rebounds: Marion 9.8, JJ 3.1 Bigger win for Marion, who is a (tall)small forward I might add. Pretty putrid rebounding for JJ, not because he is a guard, his rebounding numbers are about average, but considering his physique he should be able to mix it up with anyone. JJ's likes to hang around on the perimiter too much for my taste.
Free throws: Marion .838, JJ .757 Not a bad percentage for JJ but Marion is an EXCELLENT free-thrower. Marion wins again.
Turnovers: Marion 1.69, JJ 1.63 A virtual dead heat in this stat!
JJ is a better passer, ball handler, shooter, both long and short range, than marion, and he is no slouch on defense either,
Steals: Marion 1.85, JJ .91 Blocks: Marion 1.2, JJ .20
Fouls Marion 2.5, JJ 1.90 JJ fouls less! He wins! Don't knwo what this really translates into but I am trying to help JJ...
MPG: Marion 39.3, JJ 33.3
I know that Marion is very well known for his defense, he can pretty much lock down any position except center. JJ I cannot really say how good his defense is, I think you have to really watch a player to get a good indication of defensive play. So I won't argue defense.
Conclusion: In the numbers that favor guards JJ has a slight advantage. In most other numbers Marion is significantly better. Also from looking at their averages you will see that JJ's career is top heavy. Before Marbury left JJ was this || close to blowing as an NBA player.
Also from watching the NBA we know that Marion has done his thing with all kinds of upheaval in the Sun's organization. Marion doesn't need "The Perfect Situation" to blossom. he is a player, put him out there and he plays.
I think JJ brings more to the table, and has the talent to be a number one guy on a good team,
That is fine, and we will see (If JJ gets to be number one on ATL.). If your position is: "I always thought JJ had the goods, and he is ready to break out." I think that is valid. But I don't think any argument can be made that JJ is better than Marion based on their careers.
I don't feel the same about marion,I feel he needs other good players around him to be effective as he is, he needs a pg to create his shots, I think he said that himself.
The ability to create one's own offense is always a bonus, but that does not automatically make JJ a better player. However, Marion is a rare type of player who does not need the ball, but yet he is a skilled player. By the way, notice how much better JJ's numbers got when he stopped having to create for humself.
JJ can create for himself and others.
Too bad JJ is selfish as a player. While certainly JJ has the right to "get his" monetarily and otherwise, let's look at Marion who has been on the Suns before Stoudemire and Nash. How come he isn't the one b!thching about shots etc.? It show you his character.
Don't let the hype of the nicknames"matrix", the olympic invites, and espn highlight reels fool you into believing that he is a elite player. He is far from that.
The Matrix nickname is actually pretty apt considering how well rounded Marion's game is. But why would you think I am fooled by anything? I never called Marion Elite, but is very good-to-star level, as opposed to JJ, who is disappointment-finally level. By the way, don't be fooled by JJ's 1.55 seasons of success. Let him get at least one more under his belt before we can compare to ANY STAR PLAYER.
He is far from that.
JJ meant just as much to the suns. believe that..
No I don't beleive that and I can't see any reason to. Niether does Suns management. But we will see about that this season.
NO! I said fun watching JJ play in atlanta...
Sorry, I am just not used to the words fun and Atlanta in the same sentence.
oohah