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Can we jump in on this Joe Johnson thing?
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simrud
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8/4/2005  10:10 AM
I know somebody brought this up, but somet things get posted by somebody once and get a life of their own around here.

Here is a list of things to disregard when reading posts so you don't waste your time:

1) Marbury is apparently seriously hurt. BRIGGS posts every once in a while that he has some horrible injury, but it alwasy turns out to be false. Its just that somebody posted it once, and now its a legend. They tell it to their grandchildern when the sun don't shine, "you know, Marbury is really hurt and will retire by the time he 32 due to knee problems, ooooh...".

2 Aguirre is incredible in working with bigmen. I don't remember who started this, but apparently he did an awesome job with Mohammed, KT, Sweetney who hasnt a new post move since college, and all our other multiple and prized big men. But don't let anybody tell you that we can't have this guy as a coach, becaue he is a our secree weapon. We can bring in some 7 foot stiff by the name of Faqua and becasue we have Aguirre magic will happen.

3) Sweetney is fat and needs to loose weight, then he'll become a monster. Disregard the fact that he dominated in college with the same weight, that his best skill is his bulk and how he uses, the mantra is still "Sweetney is a fatassa and needs to loose like 50 poiunds".

There is probably more, but those are the things that come to mind of the top of my head. Feel free to add lol.

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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bobs3304
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8/4/2005  10:17 AM
^ Marty, I don't buy that reasoning one bit. Suffice to say it's your right to feel however you want, but it's my right too. See, the problem I see on most boards (and believe me, I've made my rounds), is that Knick fans are just too fickle. One day you're hot for Marbury, the next you're ice cold. Now, I'm not suggesting he or any other player doesn't deserve some criticism, but this is just getting out of hand. Have you ever heard of building and maintaining an IDENTITY?

Not only that, but it's like freakin musical chairs every other day. Let's get Joe Johnson(as if that's gonna happen), or ooooh, how about Ron Artest. Ya, let's give Indiana Crawford and Sweetney for him (almost convinced that that's fair, realistic, and rational).

If I have to be slightly rude to inject a voice of reason, then so be it. I personally don't believe I've ever hurt anyone's feelings, or disrespected anyone, but if I have, don't act like I've cyber-raped you. Some people nowadays really need to grow some thick skin. If you dare to make a thread about how we can get KG, then go for it, but you better backup your words, or else you have little to no credability.

Lastly, and this is key here: I get the feeling here, that alot of Knick fans aren't legitimately concerned about making actual progress. I mean, let's face it, you can't move forward by staying put, and by the same token, if you're interested in a different player every single week, that's just insanity. Stability, rationality, realism, and a little kick in the ass is what I'm offering as a poster. Take it for what it is, and please don't hate on me.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 10:18:25]

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 10:19:38]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BigRedDog
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8/4/2005  10:18 AM
Personally I'm tired of these "trade marbury" threads every other day.Marbury is NOT going anywhere. Think about it, IT loves marbury, LB coached marbury in the olympics and got to know him and his game. LB knows IT loves marbury and if LB agreed to come here and coach you have to assume he is ok with having marbury on the team. If LB didn't like marbury as a player there is no way he would have agreed to come and coach. Common sense. Actually I think its good that LB got to coach marbury in the olympics because I think it will make it quicker and easier for the transition of marbury learning under LB.
P.S. I also don't think the knicks suck at this point. I think they have improved greatly and in contention for a playoff spot. I think there still is a couple of moves left and I am very optimistic.

[Edited by - BigRedDog on 08/04/2005 10:25:40]
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
Swishfm3
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8/4/2005  10:19 AM
That's the type of answer you give if you're trying to insult no one. I'm not worried about offending anyone. Here's the painful truth:


No matter who's on this team (realistically), some of you guys will always find something to complain about. On the other hand, some guys think that no matter how the team is doing, there's always potential.

I don't understand how this board is significantly "better" than Knicks4Life or RealGM. Granted, I LOVE THIS SITE. But I'm finding that there are just as many Homers and Self-Haters here than any other site. The problem with some of you is that your point of view is scewed. Either you could care less who we trade as long as we bring in friggin Lebron, or you're not open to trading anyone b/c there's loads of "potential."

Let's be fair. We have some nice pieces in place, with the "potential" for them to improve under Brown. And of course, guys like Timmy, Mo Taylor, Penny, and Houston, which are useless. But can't we all agree that if the right trade came along (a realistic, rational one), that we'd be willing to give up even some of those "nice pieces". And that, on the other hand, there's no need to get rid of just anyone b/c you're frustrated with the team's peformance so far. You gotta take it in strides.

I'm personally guilty for wanting Crawford gone. I still agree with most of the points I made, but I think in a perfect world Jamal should atleast be given half a year to prove himself.

And last but not least, unfortunately, we all have to be able to distinguish b/w SHOULD and WILL. What should happen is not always what will happen with Isiah and Dolan in charge. So far, I trust Isiah enough to not question his every move until proven otherwise. In fact, the only deal I question so far is the Mo Taylor one. That still hurts.

Enough preaching. Back to the Daily Show mother****ers...

2 years lurking on this biatch and this is the BEST post I've ever read.

[Edited by - swishfm3 on 08/04/2005 10:29:16]
OAK
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8/4/2005  10:55 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by Caseloads:

it's the off-season. no real games are played now - it's all speculation. that's what this board is about until there are games to be discussed.

That's the type of answer you give if you're trying to insult no one. I'm not worried about offending anyone. Here's the painful truth:


No matter who's on this team (realistically), some of you guys will always find something to complain about. On the other hand, some guys think that no matter how the team is doing, there's always potential.

I don't understand how this board is significantly "better" than Knicks4Life or RealGM. Granted, I LOVE THIS SITE. But I'm finding that there are just as many Homers and Self-Haters here than any other site. The problem with some of you is that your point of view is scewed. Either you could care less who we trade as long as we bring in friggin Lebron, or you're not open to trading anyone b/c there's loads of "potential."

Let's be fair. We have some nice pieces in place, with the "potential" for them to improve under Brown. And of course, guys like Timmy, Mo Taylor, Penny, and Houston, which are useless. But can't we all agree that if the right trade came along (a realistic, rational one), that we'd be willing to give up even some of those "nice pieces". And that, on the other hand, there's no need to get rid of just anyone b/c you're frustrated with the team's peformance so far. You gotta take it in strides.

I'm personally guilty for wanting Crawford gone. I still agree with most of the points I made, but I think in a perfect world Jamal should atleast be given half a year to prove himself.

And last but not least, unfortunately, we all have to be able to distinguish b/w SHOULD and WILL. What should happen is not always what will happen with Isiah and Dolan in charge. So far, I trust Isiah enough to not question his every move until proven otherwise. In fact, the only deal I question so far is the Mo Taylor one. That still hurts.

Enough preaching. Back to the Daily Show mother****ers...

Dude,

If you don't like the channel, then change it. Not all posts are gonna be good. The proposed changes are more like fantasy teams then the cold reality of massive player movements.

Im not saying I am satisfied with anything, but if these dudes want to whine, cry, snit, beyotch, Post pics of hot chicks, preach, rant ballyhoo, bicker, brew-ha ha, bolderdash, circle jerk, and suggest otherwise, its their gig!

If you don't dig a subject, or the way its going, or you think you hav e read the same thing 100 times over and over again, then just go on to the next one, or start one that interests you!

We all roll our eyes at one time or another, but you gotta just let some things go. Its better that way, trust me!

Or , just check out for a few days and chill.

Some guys should take Nalod's advice and behave. Otherwise, you're gona get yourself banned pretty soon. If you want to force your own views upon others, I say you should create your own forum.
EnySpree
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8/4/2005  11:20 AM
Joe Johnson? He showed up in the playoffs but during the season he was just another cog in the system.

I know before Pheonix started winning Joe was a guy no one wanted.

So because Q was a cast off and he had a bad game 7 Q is chopped liver?

I would rather get involved in a trade for Al Harrington and put Tim Thomas to rest. Isiah should do like Portland and waive these dudes(Tim, Penny, and Houston) and just go about our basketball lives.

[Edited by - enyspree on 08/04/2005 11:24:31]
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rvhoss
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8/4/2005  12:07 PM
I like our back court as it is.

At this point, the only trade that helps us immensely and is possible and has been talked about in the press and this board is a trade for Gasol involving Penny's expiring deal and one or two of our PFs.
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/36192/20050608/knicks_trying_to_pry_gasol_from_grizzlies/
That would immediately upgrade and thin out the front line.

Would give us Gasol, Frye and JJ at the center.
Whatever PF's are left (I'm leaning towards Rose and MoT)
and the 1 through 3 spots all good with a starter and back up at each position.

There is nobody out there that is a serious upgrade of our current back court IMHO.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08/04/2005 12:10:00]
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bobs3304
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8/4/2005  12:09 PM
Regardless of how I feel about Gasol (and it's not good), I think when you look at the direction that West is going, he's simply rebuilding around Gasol with more low-key, dependable, veteran players.

Prediction - Gasol is going nowhere. Had they traded J-Dub, Posey, and Wells for cap space, then there would be a much better chance. But at this point, there's no reason for Memphis to go that route.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Rich
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8/4/2005  12:10 PM
Gasol is staying, and even if he wasn't, the Knicks don't have enough to get him.
rvhoss
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8/4/2005  12:12 PM
yep, just actually read this:
http://www.sportsfanmagazine.com/sfm/add_reply.html?id=164

Memphis Grizzlies:

For the longest time, Jerry West has been beyond reproach, and for good reason. He set the standard for the General Manager position during his time with the Los Angeles Lakers and could retire as the greatest player/executive in NBA history. But this trade is another head-scratcher in a series of strange moves from the Logo.

Essentially, this move is addition-by-subtraction for Memphis. Since the Grizz have been stockpiling many talented players for similar positions, they’ve been forced to run some sort of Little League Baseball-esque player rotation system that basically amounted to everyone’s kid getting an inning every game. Unfortunately, two of the players who needed more minutes (Stromile Swift and Earl Watson) appear to be headed elsewhere.

Now that West has finally traded Williams (whose name has only appeared in about 319 trade rumors this summer), newly acquired Bobby Jackson will be the full-time point guard, where he should shine, if he remains healthy.

The addition of the 33-year-old Eddie Jones (one of West’s favorite players) makes little roster sense for Memphis, since this simply replicates the Posey-Miller-Battier-Dahntay Jones logjam at swingman they were already facing. He will immediately become Memphis’s highest paid player at $14.5 million next season.

The Grizzlies also added backup point guard Raul Lopez from Utah, who will spend next season playing in Spain.

Basically, this trade is saying that Memphis believes they can become a contender with Pau Gasol as their centerpiece. He’s been in the league for four seasons now, and his numbers have already plateaued. He’s a below-average defensive player, whose penchant for ticky-tack fouls (coupled with Memphis’s Little League Baseball player rotation) has limited his playing time to around 32 minutes a contest. This might be a make-or-break season for the Spaniard.

While it’s far too presumptuous for someone in my position to question a basketball legend like Jerry West, one can’t help but wonder whether this trade will be swept under the rug when listing his front office moves. Surely, they could’ve received more than Eddie Jones for Posey and Williams, right?

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08/04/2005 12:14:20]
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EnySpree
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8/4/2005  12:19 PM
Posted by Rich:

Gasol is staying, and even if he wasn't, the Knicks don't have enough to get him.

The Knicks have enough but Memphis doesn't need the cap relief or draft picks the Knicks would give. I think if he were to ever be traded right now they would rather trade Gasol for another young stud.

The Knicks do have players and pieces teams want.

I really think Isiah should bring in a replacement for Timmy now and just save everything else for the deadline.

I'm really excited about getting Al Harrington. Al hasn't played with a point like Marbs yet and that would really be a good fit for his game. Larry Brown would probably work wonders for Al too....

We got Q....time to trade Craw. Or if Craw is so good trade Q....though I would rather trade Craw. Q I think already has a strong mental game.
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rvhoss
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8/4/2005  12:30 PM
craw will be 6th man of the year under LB.

We need QUALITY depth at the guard positions and craw is that.

With respect to replacing TT as soon as possible, I'd rather go with TT (we know what we're getting) for another year and use Ariza/Q as a backup when he's off.

I've said it once, I'll say it again...we are set at the 1, 2 and 3.
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bobs3304
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8/4/2005  12:38 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

craw will be 6th man of the year under LB.

We need QUALITY depth at the guard positions and craw is that.

With respect to replacing TT as soon as possible, I'd rather go with TT (we know what we're getting) for another year and use Ariza/Q as a backup when he's off.

I've said it once, I'll say it again...we are set at the 1, 2 and 3.


I couldn't disagree more, but I think for now I'll leave it at that.

Oh, I'll say this though - we're set at PG.....that's about it. Unless of course you have no intentions of us making the playoffs this year.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
rvhoss
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8/4/2005  12:47 PM
long time no speak bobs.

Well, I'm willing to make a side bet that if there are no changes in the back court we still make the playoffs.

Was that your implication in your post that the back court as is (even with other changes elsewhere) will not yield us a playoff birth?
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bobs3304
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8/4/2005  12:50 PM
Ya, more or less.

I think we have a shot at the 8th seed, but it'll be tough. I'm not promising anything, but taking into account Larry Brown and the additions and subtractions we've made on the roster, exactly how much better do you think we are exactly?

I'd say, and I'm being very generous, 10 Games TOPS.

43-39....just above .500. With the Central looking tough, and Miami and NJ a lock, I say our only chance is to grab that last seed, and it'll be a dog fight until the end...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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8/4/2005  12:53 PM
On a separate note, I just found out that one of those 2 picks going to Pheonix.......get this......is only protected Top 3.....and NOT AT ALL by 2008.


That's sad...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
rvhoss
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8/4/2005  1:27 PM
Honestly...

I think Frye, JJ is an upgrade at center over Kurt/Nazr
I think Q and Nate bring more than we had with Penny and H20.
And, ofcourse the coach.

Everything else is the same.

I also expect us to max out at 10 more wins this year than last year.

And if that is pretty much the general consensus, those 10 wins have to come against somebody. I think most likely they will come against the bulls (2 buzzer beating losses), wizards, nets, Celtics and the other teams contending for the playoffs.

If we get 10 more wins, the other teams are expecting more losses.

just makes sense.

Last year, seeds 3, 5 - 8 were obtained with between 42 and 45 wins)
Bulls had 47 wins at the 4 spot.

Can we get 10 more wins? I think Yes. Will that get us in the playoffs? Depends on if you think the celtics will repeat as the division winners with 45 wins (no more toine and the youth movement is in effect), or the nets and philly will improve on their 42/43 wins and where they plan on getting them.

IMHO, it's a 10 team race for 5 spots (3, 5 - 8).

I see us coming in top 5 out of those 10 teams as we stand today.

It's going to be tough, but I give us just as good a chance as the bulls and wizards and boston.

And my optimism gives me hope that we are evenly matched with the nets and sixers. IMHO
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bobs3304
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8/4/2005  1:37 PM
Lemme break it down as far as I see it:

Miami
NJ
Detroit
Indiana

^ All guaranteed playoff contenders


Cavs
Knicks
Wizards
Bucks
Bulls
Sixers


^ 2/6 teams won't be making the playoffs.

I'd give Philly an edge over us.

If Curry stays with Chicago and plays about as well as he did last year, I'd give them an edge too.

The Wizards, IMO, will actually be better. I'll take Butler, Atkins, Daniels, and whatever backup PF they add over Kwame and Hughes anyday.

The Cavs will probably be better as well. Depends on how well they gel, and with a selfless leader like Lebron, I don't see that being a problem.


The Bucks and Knick will probably round out the 9th and 10th spots, assuming neither team makes any significant changes to their roster. But, and this is a big BUT, I don't happen to think our roster is done, not by a longshot. So that's why I say we have a chance, b/c Larry Brown is the wildcard, and I see atleast another move being done before the deadline...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 13:38:11]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
rvhoss
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8/4/2005  1:44 PM
I think awhile back someone called you a Nets fan and you flipped.

I have to agree with that now.

Nets have all the same questions as the other teams you listed.

they are not, however, in the class of miami, detroit and indiana anymore.

I feel once you accept that, you will be able to look at the knicks more objectively.

But to keep placing the Nets as a sure fire playoff birth when they have not signed SAR and their Center, Kristic) is Frye one year removed...I'd have to say that IMHO, I'd take Frye/JJ over Kristic any day, and the reason I only say kristic, because nobody even knows who their back up center is, let alone their backup PF's (assuming SAR signs, which I repeat, he hasn't yet).

If the knicks roster isn't completed, until the nets get SAR, neither is their roster.

So, while I agree with most of what you said, putting NJ on a pedestal is waaaaay early.

Now is about the time you start in on the personal attacks.
Posted by bobs3304:

Lemme break it down as far as I see it:

Miami
NJ
Detroit
Indiana

^ All guaranteed playoff contenders


Cavs
Knicks
Wizards
Bucks
Bulls
Sixers


^ 2/6 teams won't be making the playoffs.

I'd give Philly an edge over us.

If Curry stays with Chicago and plays about as well as he did last year, I'd give them an edge too.

The Wizards, IMO, will actually be better. I'll take Butler, Atkins, Daniels, and whatever backup PF they add over Kwame and Hughes anyday.

The Cavs will probably be better as well. Depends on how well they gel, and with a selfless leader like Lebron, I don't see that being a problem.


The Bucks and Knick will probably round out the 9th and 10th spots, assuming neither team makes any significant changes to their roster. But, and this is a big BUT, I don't happen to think our roster is done, not by a longshot. So that's why I say we have a chance, b/c Larry Brown is the wildcard, and I see atleast another move being done before the deadline...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 08/04/2005 13:38:11]
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technomaster
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8/4/2005  2:01 PM
Ya know, this Joe Johnson character... you've gotta question his mental makeup. First, the Suns traded for him and got him out of an ugly Boston situation. They then traded away Marbury and gave Johnson an opportunity to be the man on their team and a rising star in the league.
They also traded away Q-Rich to make room for him.

The Suns as currently constructed look like they'd be capable of contending for the next decade-- and as Nash slowed down, he'd have more opportunities to star as the PG.

So WTF?!?! Does he really believe he'll be happy in Atlanta? I can see him wasting away there, getting lost in the mix. I don't think he's markedly better than ANY OF THE YOUNG SWINGMEN on that team-- he's more mature than they are--- that's all.

He can play some point--- but he won't be quite as effective w/o established players to pass to.

It just doesn't seem like a wise career move.
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Can we jump in on this Joe Johnson thing?
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