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Here is a cap savings way to get Miles
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Killa4luv
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7/30/2005  3:18 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

It's b/c their "typical" New Yorkers and only want players that aren't on the Knicks.


Kwame
Stro
D Miles
Gooden


The list goes on. And lemme tell you, I thought it was a good thing now that Larry's on board b/c most of you would stop this incessant "How about Tim Thomas for ____" bull****. It never stops with you guys. How about Kwame Brown. How about D. Miles. How about Andrew friggin Bynum. I remember way back some people were saying we should take that H.S. kid that Washington took in the 2nd round. IN THE SECOND ROUND!

My point is, Larry is finally a guy that's gonna look Isiah square in the eyes and say, "I don't like Jamal Crawford." And Isiah's gonna say, "OK, what should we do."

No more taking on bull****, no defense, selfish players. I would gladly keep Crawford if he was our starting SG and Marbury was traded, meaning of course we were actually rebuilding...but that's not the case. Now, I don't know about some of you, but I actually wanna make the playoffs this year. Badly. And news flash...with the roster we have now, it'll be VERY hard to make the 8th seed. Don't have stars in your eyes guys (no rhyme intended). Think of this realistically. No matter how many points we score with this team, we'll give up more than we put up half the time. .500 isn't good enough to make the playoffs next season. You can bank on that. The East is HIGHLY competitive.

[quote] What we need are MORE intangible players, not less. We need defensively-able players.
What you don't take into account is that Steph is a defensively -able player. If you have watched him his whole career, his defense hasn't been as bad as it was last year. Even his first half-season with the knicks he was playing good defense. Its not that he can't play defense, its that he didn't. He was playing 40 minutes a freaking night.

Crawford is a defensively-able player as well. He's 6-5 with long ass arms and he's quick as hell. AND he put on muscle although i think that muscle, strength= good d argument is way overstated, especially for guards. He CAN play it, and I believe he will. He will be learning from the best coach in B-ball and he is a kid who tries to improve his game. He will be fine.

Not to mention the fact that we know have 2 bigs (JJ, Frye) who are shot blockers and shot changers, amd JJ is as wide as a house. Even if JJ gives us 20 minutes, thats 20 minutes of an inside presence that we had for no minutes at all last season. If Frye gives us 15, thats 15 more. With the exact same pourous d from the guards last year, we would still be better defensively because of our bigs. AND the D from our guards wont be pourous like it was last year from the guards. No way! Larry is here and these guys wanna play and win.
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crzymdups
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7/30/2005  9:16 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

I have no problem with Miles character on a team that is known for leading guys down the wrong path. My problem with Miles is that he can't shoot and is just as stupid a basketball player as Tim Thomas. But he is better than Ariza.


he cant shoot 3s but hes a 50% FG shooter

Here are his 10 best games of 2004

33 10 14 6 3 3 0 1 2 20
41 9 15 6 2 4 2 2 4 21
33 7 16 6 3 6 4 0 5 20
40 19 33 12 0 1 4 5 3 47
40 13 17 4 2 2 1 0 3 26
42 11 24 8 4 1 2 2 3 28
39 10 22 9 3 5 1 2 4 25
29 10 13 8 2 4 4 3 5 20
26 9 13 7 0 2 0 1 4 21
28 8 13 3 2 3 0 4 4 21
----------------------------avg
35.5mts
107/180-59.4%
pts 24.9
reb 5.9
blocks 2.0
steals 1.7
To's 3.1
as 2.1

so you can see when he gets time, he can play at a all star level and has very nice defensive stats for a 3
when he didnt start or didnt play as many minutes, he tended not to play as well

Erm. I have issues with saying "10 best games"... if you look at Tim Thomas, you could say the same for him, he had some great games where he got minutes because he was hot, and he didn't get minutes when his shot didn't fall. But if you look at Timmy's "10 best games" he looks like Peja:

33.9mpg
93/150 - 62% fg
25.2ppg
3.5rpg
.3blocks
.6 steals
2.2 TO
3.2 assists

I actually like DMiles better than Tim, but I think the ten best game argument isn't really helpful here. If you look at Kobe or Tmac's 10 best games last season it was probably 40ppg, 8rpg, 9apg or something insane.
¿ △ ?
BRIGGS
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7/30/2005  9:32 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

I have no problem with Miles character on a team that is known for leading guys down the wrong path. My problem with Miles is that he can't shoot and is just as stupid a basketball player as Tim Thomas. But he is better than Ariza.


he cant shoot 3s but hes a 50% FG shooter

Here are his 10 best games of 2004

33 10 14 6 3 3 0 1 2 20
41 9 15 6 2 4 2 2 4 21
33 7 16 6 3 6 4 0 5 20
40 19 33 12 0 1 4 5 3 47
40 13 17 4 2 2 1 0 3 26
42 11 24 8 4 1 2 2 3 28
39 10 22 9 3 5 1 2 4 25
29 10 13 8 2 4 4 3 5 20
26 9 13 7 0 2 0 1 4 21
28 8 13 3 2 3 0 4 4 21
----------------------------avg
35.5mts
107/180-59.4%
pts 24.9
reb 5.9
blocks 2.0
steals 1.7
To's 3.1
as 2.1

so you can see when he gets time, he can play at a all star level and has very nice defensive stats for a 3
when he didnt start or didnt play as many minutes, he tended not to play as well

Erm. I have issues with saying "10 best games"... if you look at Tim Thomas, you could say the same for him, he had some great games where he got minutes because he was hot, and he didn't get minutes when his shot didn't fall. But if you look at Timmy's "10 best games" he looks like Peja:

33.9mpg
93/150 - 62% fg
25.2ppg
3.5rpg
.3blocks
.6 steals
2.2 TO
3.2 assists

I actually like DMiles better than Tim, but I think the ten best game argument isn't really helpful here. If you look at Kobe or Tmac's 10 best games last season it was probably 40ppg, 8rpg, 9apg or something insane.

we know Tim Thomas can play like an all star offensively--but the big seperation is rebounding blocks and steals-all defensive stats. If you are talking 2 blocks and 2 steals, then you are talking about altering many more shots, disruption. It's not a fair comparison, because there are intangibles like Tim Thomas *started* 60+ games Darius started 22 games--darius makes about half the money that Tim makes, hes about 5 years younger, he's a better FG% player etc....
RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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7/30/2005  10:05 AM
Do you think the reason Miles did not get more minutes is because he is extremely selfish and does not do the intangables that make him a team player?

Or that he is despised by some?

Remember one thing that looms, we are still an entertainment company and if and when at all possible you get guys that are of good character, good people, and are marketable
bobs3304
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7/30/2005  11:58 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

What you don't take into account is that Steph is a defensively -able player. If you have watched him his whole career, his defense hasn't been as bad as it was last year. Even his first half-season with the knicks he was playing good defense. Its not that he can't play defense, its that he didn't. He was playing 40 minutes a freaking night.

Crawford is a defensively-able player as well. He's 6-5 with long ass arms and he's quick as hell. AND he put on muscle although i think that muscle, strength= good d argument is way overstated, especially for guards. He CAN play it, and I believe he will. He will be learning from the best coach in B-ball and he is a kid who tries to improve his game. He will be fine.

Not to mention the fact that we know have 2 bigs (JJ, Frye) who are shot blockers and shot changers, amd JJ is as wide as a house. Even if JJ gives us 20 minutes, thats 20 minutes of an inside presence that we had for no minutes at all last season. If Frye gives us 15, thats 15 more. With the exact same pourous d from the guards last year, we would still be better defensively because of our bigs. AND the D from our guards wont be pourous like it was last year from the guards. No way! Larry is here and these guys wanna play and win.


No offense man, but I'm starting to think you have stars in your eyes. To be defensively-able in the NBA means, atleast to me, that you're an average defender right now or better, OR you've shown the potential to be so in the near future. Who would I consider defensively able - Eric Snow...and Trevor Ariza. But to say that Crawford is defensively capable simply b/c he has "long ass arms" and might have put on some weight is ignorant.

If Craw adds weight that effects his quickness as a player. And b/c he's most effective handling the ball, breaking down the defense WITH his quickness, and distributing, that would make him less of an effective player than he already is. Defense isn't exactly a skill per say, it's all about tenacity, focus, and energy. Studying tape doesn't hurt either. Last year was Craw's 5th season - at one point did he EVER show the capability of being an AVERGAE defender? Same goes for Marbury, although atleast he steps it up a bit against the better guards in the league.

And one last thing...to say that Larry Brown will make BAD defensive players into good ones is stupid. Sorry...it is. What Larry Brown will do is preach defense all day long. He'll even teach it. And if you're not on board...you're not playing. It's not about a "willingness" to be coached or to learn, it's actually a skill gained through experience. (Why do you think the Patriots have been so good for so long -- highest % of college graduates in the NFL = experience being coached). Marbury can't and won't be traded. That's a given. But Crawford is def. expendable b/c, while his contract is overboard, he def. has offensive skills and would make a solid PG for a team that would offer him more freedom to do his thing than Larry Brown ever will. Larry's all about strict, no-nonsense basketball. Crawford will crumble under that.



DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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7/30/2005  2:46 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Defense isn't exactly a skill per say, it's all about tenacity, focus, and energy.............

.......It's not about a "willingness" to be coached or to learn, it's actually a skill gained through experience.
So which one is it Bobs? Is it a skill or isn't it?

You really enjoy contradicting yourself within the same post.



[Edited by - killa4luv on 07/30/2005 14:48:13]
bobs3304
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7/30/2005  2:49 PM
I used the word skill twice out there and I can see how it would be confusing.

Defense is NOT a skill

Being able to learn and adjust your game IS a skill.


btw dude, you having trouble reading my posts or something?

[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/30/2005 14:51:58]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
djsunyc
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7/30/2005  2:51 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Crawford will crumble under that.

uh oh...looks like miss cleo's planet dido's population just doubled...

but back to the topic at hand. miles showed some really solid flashes last year. but since isiah passed on him once, i don't even think he's on our radar.

and yes, miles is LIGHT YEARS better than ariza, but he's been in the league longer AND has been given more minutes right off the bat.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07/30/2005 14:52:50]
BRIGGS
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7/30/2005  2:56 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

I used the word skill twice out there and I can see how it would be confusing.

Defense is NOT a skill

Being able to learn and adjust your game IS a skill.


btw dude, you having trouble reading my posts or something?

[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/30/2005 14:51:58]

Of couse defense is a skill, it's not even debateable. There are various intangible stats that go along with defense like shot blocking, altering shots, deflections, denying your man the ball, getting through screens, stealing the ball--all this is dependant on technical skills. Intesity really is just another skill of defense, the ability to focus and execute the technical parts of defense. Defensive skills are just as important as offensive skills.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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7/30/2005  3:06 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Do you think the reason Miles did not get more minutes is because he is extremely selfish and does not do the intangables that make him a team player?

Or that he is despised by some?

Remember one thing that looms, we are still an entertainment company and if and when at all possible you get guys that are of good character, good people, and are marketable

I think the reason why miles didnt get more minutes is because Portland is rebuilding

Is he despised by some--maybe, I havent heard that, seems like many more dont like Kobe--would you take kobe? I heard Darius is a good kid--have you heard something else other than an outburst against his coach one morning? you think darius miles is the only guy to cuss the coach?


we are still an entertainment company and you nee good people? ------Well is Kobe considered a good person? how about rasheed? dennis Rodman, charles barkley, charles oakley etc.etc.. i think if guys come in like rasheed did and play within a team concept and hold the emotions in check for the most part, fine by me--ill take the talent.


What I see is a good talented kid put in a bad situation caused by mismanagement. It really does seem the best opportunity to steal him---you can make a deal where you save 22 mm $ this year as well
RIP Crushalot😞
bobs3304
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7/30/2005  3:12 PM
Briggs, you and I could argue whether defense really is a skill all day, but I think we can both agree that you can't have defense without the intangibles like heart, intensity, focus, discipline, etc. WHICH AREN'T SKILLS.

And THAT'S why I think crawford will never flourish under Brown. Marbury atleast has a shot IMO.



Oh, and to support Darius Miles to NY is a serious mistake...

To fall in love with "potential" is something that Larry Brown most certainly will not do, especially for players who have been in the league for a number of years (Crawford, Miles, Kwame...)



[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/30/2005 15:14:48]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BRIGGS
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7/30/2005  3:26 PM
[quote]
Posted by bobs3304:

Briggs, you and I could argue whether defense really is a skill all day, but I think we can both agree that you can't have defense without the intangibles like heart, intensity, focus, discipline, etc. WHICH AREN'T SKILLS.

And THAT'S why I think crawford will never flourish under Brown. Marbury atleast has a shot IMO.



Oh, and to support Darius Miles to NY is a serious mistake...

To fall in love with "potential" is something that Larry Brown most certainly will not do, especially for players who have been in the league for a number of years (Crawford, Miles, Kwame...)




i dont know, i played basketball in hs and college, and parts of every pratice for the most part were dedicated to offensive and defensive skills. there is a lot of technical skills involved in defense. intenisty/focus is a mental skill. you hear the announcers hype up defensive intensity, but if you ever watch a guy like bruce bowen, he plays hard, but its his advanced technical skill sets on defense that make him stand out. almost like a skilled boxer--he knows every trick in the book and although he is not a great athlete, tehcincally he get pound you. he knows hos to position his body, he knows where to cut off angles --there is a lot of skills to playing good D. You can go out there as hungry as a lion and commit 5 quick fouls playing over aggressive and not knowing what you are doing.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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7/30/2005  3:28 PM
by the way darius miles is not a potential guy, he is already a very good nba player. you dont average 13 pts 5 reb shooting 48% in 27 minutes because of potential--it means you are good.
RIP Crushalot😞
bobs3304
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7/30/2005  3:36 PM
I'd agree with most of that, as far as defensive schemes go. But Bowen has alot of drive, alot of focus. You can't teach focus. It's an innate quality. Granted, you can learn through experience, but we're talking about a player who's entering his 6th season.

I think you could agree that you can't be a good defender, with or without the technical "skills", if you don't have the intangibles. And, to be honest, you could lack the technical skills but if you play hard on every play, atleast you're showing the tenacity needed to guard up. The rest can be learned through experience. Crawford has had 5 whole seasons in the league, and his defense hasn't improved at all. He played under a defensively-intense coach in Skiles, and it did nothing for him. Larry has more respect around the league than Skiles, so I think Crawford's got no chance in NY.
The second he realizes what I do, Larry will have no qualms about asking him to be traded. Skiles had to wait a whole year before that happened.

Now, the same could be said about Marbury, but let's face it - he's going nowhere. Larry now has a challenge on his hand - turning Marbury into a winner. But you can't do that when the rest of your starters (TT, Crawford, etc.) are and have always been poor defenders as well. You can't keep and remake an entire starting lineup all at the same time. Some people have to go - plain and simple. Larry has never been shy about it.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/30/2005  3:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way darius miles is not a potential guy, he is already a very good nba player. you dont average 13 pts 5 reb shooting 48% in 27 minutes because of potential--it means you are good.


Darius Miles is the posterboy for "Potential". He's just never capitalized on it. Timmy can average 13 and 5 shooting 48 % and he's still a horrible player. Again, stats can be misleading. Drew Gooden is averaging just under 15 and 10 in 30 minutes, but why would the Cavs shop him then? I'll tell you why - both him and Miles, along with Crawford, HAVE NO REAL IMPACT ON A GAME. THEY HAVE ZERO INTANGIBLES. THEY'RE NOT COACHABLE. The last thing we need is more flash and less substance.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
nyk4ever
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7/30/2005  3:54 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

by the way darius miles is not a potential guy, he is already a very good nba player. you dont average 13 pts 5 reb shooting 48% in 27 minutes because of potential--it means you are good.

If your telling me that Tim Thomas is a "very good" NBA player, by your "stat" standards, then you are sorely mistaken. There are tons of players in the NBA that are there becuase they can jump through the roof or becuase they can light it up in workouts. A few examples of this (Tim Thomas, Darius Miles, Darko Milicic, Kwame Brown and there are PLENTY more). Don't even for a second try and defend that point becuase Tim Thomas is not a "very good" player and neither is Darius Miles, they are both players that came into the league on a red carpet and have NEVER even come close to living up to their potential. Darius Miles is playing for this 3rd team now and has never once even come close to looking like the player the Clippers thought they were selecting at #3. We need someone to update the "No Thanks Club" so we can add Darius Miles name to it as quick as possible.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/30/2005 15:55:18]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
jaydh
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7/30/2005  4:21 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Nalod:

Do you think the reason Miles did not get more minutes is because he is extremely selfish and does not do the intangables that make him a team player?

Or that he is despised by some?

Remember one thing that looms, we are still an entertainment company and if and when at all possible you get guys that are of good character, good people, and are marketable

I think the reason why miles didnt get more minutes is because Portland is rebuilding

isn't darius only 24?? wouldnt he be used if a team was rebuilding and thought to be a valuable piece?




[Edited by - jaydh on 07/30/2005 16:22:22]
bobs3304
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7/30/2005  4:24 PM
^ except we're not rebuilding. if you meant the blazers then yea, they could probably use him for the future.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
BRIGGS
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7/30/2005  5:30 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

^ except we're not rebuilding. if you meant the blazers then yea, they could probably use him for the future.

what are you kidding me--dont be delusional--w are REBUILDING--our ROSTER is NO where near a serious playoff contender. we need a LoT--I would hope the plan isto continue to try to get assets and younger so w can get a true frontcourt player.
RIP Crushalot😞
nyk4ever
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7/30/2005  5:41 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by bobs3304:

^ except we're not rebuilding. if you meant the blazers then yea, they could probably use him for the future.

what are you kidding me--dont be delusional--w are REBUILDING--our ROSTER is NO where near a serious playoff contender. we need a LoT--I would hope the plan isto continue to try to get assets and younger so w can get a true frontcourt player.

Thats definately for sure. There is NO doubt that the Knicks are rebuilding right now. Just becuase we brought in a Hall of Fame coach does not mean we aren't rebuilding. Our current roster makeup is young and athletic and like you said Briggs we are nothing until we get that true frontcourt guy.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 07/30/2005 17:41:53]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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