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Trade Scenario -- CRAWFORD to Utah....
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jaydh
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7/27/2005  9:18 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

you obviously don't understand the concept of "rotation".


once again, if anything, it would be Crawford stunting Ariza's growth, and it has nothing to do with what position he plays...

i guess i have no clue what rotation means. crawfords minutes have no affect on how many minutes ariza gets at the 3. if it does, please explain oh great one.
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bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:26 PM
first off, we're not winning a championship this year so don't even try that buddy.


and last time i checked, Ariza was still in the Summer league. For those of you that haven't watched the SL games, lemme clue you in on something -- he won't be getting many minutes with Larry in charge.

That leaves us with 2 options -- bank on Crawford becoming something he's not (Rip Hamilton type), or going out there and getting a defensive specialist. Harpring is a few years older, but he comes cheaper and is expiring at the same time, and is a much more well-rounded player.

And If 29 is old, then I guess Marbury should be dealt, huh.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:29 PM
crawford effects ariza's development b/c he'll undoubtedly need/call for more minutes than Harpring would. That pushes Q Rich to the Forward spot, thus taking most of Ariza's minutes, along with Timmy.

Harpring may or may not get more minutes than Crawford would, but that has less to do with how many minutes he NEEDS, and more to do with how many minutes he EARNS. Crawford may not even earn 25 MPG, but for 8 Mill a year the next 6 years, how can you "afford" to not force-feed those minutes to him?

[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/27/2005 21:36:31]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
fishmike
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7/27/2005  9:40 PM
Harpring is awesome, but he's banged up.

Depends on why you do this. If its because your letting TT walk, and your trying to open time for NAte than fine.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jaydh
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7/27/2005  9:40 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

crawford effects ariza's development b/c he'll undoubtedly need/call for more minutes than Harpring would. That pushes Q Rich to the Forward spot, thus taking most of Ariza's minutes, along with Timmy.

Harpring may or may not get more minutes than Crawford would, but that has less to do with how many minutes he NEEDS, and more to do with how many minutes he EARNS. Crawford may not even earn 25 MPG, but for 8 Mill a year the next 6 years, how can you "afford" to not force-feed those minutes to him?

[Edited by - BOBS3304 on 07/27/2005 21:36:31]

with harpring here, ariza's minutes are non-existant. i just dont see how harpring does anything for us now.
jaydh
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7/27/2005  9:43 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

and last time i checked, Ariza was still in the Summer league. For those of you that haven't watched the SL games, lemme clue you in on something -- he won't be getting many minutes with Larry in charge.

i dont believe that BS, not one bit. players will earn there time, and its ridiculous to think ariza wont get minutes, despite him being in SL(thats weak, i could name several players who get major minutes and are in SL).
Posted by bobs3304:

That leaves us with 2 options -- bank on Crawford becoming something he's not (Rip Hamilton type), or going out there and getting a defensive specialist. Harpring is a few years older, but he comes cheaper and is expiring at the same time, and is a much more well-rounded player.

why cant crawford become as good as RIP offensively?
Posted by bobs3304:

And If 29 is old, then I guess Marbury should be dealt, huh.

no one said he was old, his #s have just been in decline.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:47 PM
trading crawford and using timmy later on in another deal will clear up the roster. not everythin can be solved overnight, and if you believe that Ariza NEEDS a certain amount of minutes, then you're gravely mistaken. He'll earn his minutes just like anyone else. The problem, however, is that under Brown, I see Crawford in particular struggling to earn his, and with Isiah banking on Crawford on becoming something he's not, minutes will be force-fed to him no matter what.

Crawford for Harpring and a pick has less to do with Crawford, and more to do with the team. The team is offensively solid (more or less), but lacking bigtime in defense. A great coach can preach defense, but can't teach it. And at this point, there are already enough players on this team that can't play D. Getting rid of one of them for a defensively-solid player who happens to have an expiring contract is fair if you ask me. It'll be hard enough for Brown to convince Marbury to buy into his system, let alone Timmy, Crawford, Q, and the rest of them. Crawford or Marbury. Make your choice...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:49 PM
why can't crawford become rip? b/c they're completely different players. crawford is most productive when he's handling the ball, leading the offense. rip is best when he's NOT handling the ball and when he's being fed.

rip plays bigger than his size. crawford plays smaller.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:50 PM
btw, i'm not a crawford hater. but since isiah brought him in, this team has taken a sharp turn. plans are changing, and you can't depend on players that offer everything but what you actually need.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
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7/27/2005  9:51 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

trading crawford and using timmy later on in another deal will clear up the roster. not everythin can be solved overnight, and if you believe that Ariza NEEDS a certain amount of minutes, then you're gravely mistaken. He'll earn his minutes just like anyone else. The problem, however, is that under Brown, I see Crawford in particular struggling to earn his, and with Isiah banking on Crawford on becoming something he's not, minutes will be force-fed to him no matter what.

Crawford for Harpring and a pick has less to do with Crawford, and more to do with the team. The team is offensively solid (more or less), but lacking bigtime in defense. A great coach can preach defense, but can't teach it. And at this point, there are already enough players on this team that can't play D. Getting rid of one of them for a defensively-solid player who happens to have an expiring contract is fair if you ask me. It'll be hard enough for Brown to convince Marbury to buy into his system, let alone Timmy, Crawford, Q, and the rest of them. Crawford or Marbury. Make your choice...

well i know you disagree with this, but i believe ariza can bring as much D to the table as Harpring. so to me, getting harpring makes no sense, when we have someone who is better now, and potentially a lot better. i think there are plenty of minutes to go around between Marbs, Q, Craw, and Ariza with only the subtraction of Timmy.
jaydh
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7/27/2005  9:55 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

why can't crawford become rip? b/c they're completely different players. crawford is most productive when he's handling the ball, leading the offense. rip is best when he's NOT handling the ball and when he's being fed.

rip plays bigger than his size. crawford plays smaller.

dont you believe crawford can become more consistent? cant he work on spot-up shooting? he has a lot of potential, and finally a real coach.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:56 PM
and no offense, but I think you're a typical Knick fan that overrates what we have. ariza is talented, but he's nothing special (or consistent)....yet.

And I'm not sure if you realized what you just said, but here's a recap: "As long as we have one backcourt defender, ain't no reason to have another..."

lol, that's pretty ****in laughable...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  9:59 PM
Posted by jaydh:


dont you believe crawford can become more consistent? cant he work on spot-up shooting? he has a lot of potential, and finally a real coach.

No...I don't. You can't rob Peter to pay Paul. If you want Crawford to work on Rip's game, then you're taking away from the thing he does best, which is being a slasher and distributor of the ball, not a guard that plays without the ball.

If you expect Crawford to become Rip Hamilton, you're sorely mistaken. They're 2 completely different players.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  10:03 PM
btw, have you guys forgotten? crawford played under Scott Skiles, a defensive-minded coach. how did jamal respond to that? point made.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
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7/27/2005  10:27 PM
i'm done...i disagree, but i'm done.
Killa4luv
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7/28/2005  1:07 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

Lets' get something straight oh knowledgable one.


Boozer is the second best player on that team behind AK47. I'd say Harpring is about their 4th best player.

Once again, what does Crawford offer that is so much better than Harpring. What we're lacking most is defense and common-sense fans. Harpring could help solve 1/2, maybe even both if he comes to home games with a hacksaw in hand...
Hey Jerky I don't know if you know but AK47 missed most of the season.

Matt was their 2nd leading scorer amongst such stars as Boozer, Okur, Raja Bell and whoever the **** else plays out in mormon land.

Matt is a decent player who has peaked and where he has peaked at is either at or below where Crawford is right now. Craw can be a star.

And by the way, I love how everytime someone disagrees with you its because their not smart or they lack common sense. Evidentally common sense is not as common as you think because I don't see anyone agreeing with you. Not even one person.

I guess your just a genius and we unsmart fans just can't get it.
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  7:44 AM
No, I take what you guys say into account. But you're not getting it as far as I'm concerned.

My point is exactly what yours is - Harpring IS a great player, and an expiring contract on top of that. Crawford is set to make 8 1/2 mill per year for the next 6, and with the team as it is, he won't even get the minutes he NEEDS (forget about even earning it). He's most effective, or should I say he's just plain effective, with the ball in his hand. Same is said for Marbury. You can't have 3 PG's on a team, all best with the ball in their hand moving the offense. The minutes just won't be there.

Crawford needs a certain amount of MPG b/c otherwise, he'll be sitting his ass on the bench. Do you REALLY want your 50 Million dollar man wasting away b/c he doesn't fit in in Larry Brown's system?
Exactly - trade him now for another piece.

Btw, if you think I'm the only one that feels Crawford or Marbury needs to be dealt, try going to ESPN.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  7:47 AM
Just to reiterate, I think Crawford is a great talent, but we can't afford to hold onto potential and talent just b/c they COULD be a bit better. Jamal's an offensive shark and a defensive liability. He's not Rip Hamilton, he's not Reggie Miller. He's what he is - a skinny, quick, tall PG that can break down the defense with nifty moves and distribute the ball or hit the open jumper. That's what he does best.

On the team as it is, A.) that won't fly with Brown, and B.) therefore, he's utterly useless to us. He's better suited to play his true game somewhere else - say, a team that actually needs a combo guard (Utah).
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Killa4luv
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7/28/2005  7:49 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

No, I take what you guys say into account. But you're not getting it as far as I'm concerned.

My point is exactly what yours is - Harpring IS a great player, and an expiring contract on top of that. Crawford is set to make 8 1/2 mill per year for the next 6, and with the team as it is, he won't even get the minutes he NEEDS (forget about even earning it). He's most effective, or should I say he's just plain effective, with the ball in his hand. Same is said for Marbury. You can't have 3 PG's on a team, all best with the ball in their hand moving the offense. The minutes just won't be there.

Crawford needs a certain amount of MPG b/c otherwise, he'll be sitting his ass on the bench. Do you REALLY want your 50 Million dollar man wasting away b/c he doesn't fit in in Larry Brown's system?
Exactly - trade him now for another piece.

Btw, if you think I'm the only one that feels Crawford or Marbury needs to be dealt, try going to ESPN.
What I said was you are the only one who thinks Crawford should go for a 29 year old role player.

Your also the only one I have ever heard describe Harpring as a great player.

Crawford will play the 2 and Q will split between the 2 and the 3.

His minutes wont be an issue, Nate Robinson is not playing more than 12 minutes a game, and Q will slide over.

Q will split time at the 3 with Ariza, and TT will play more PF than anyhing.
bobs3304
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7/28/2005  7:54 AM
Thanks for answering the rotation problems Larry, but it isn't as simple as that. Larry plays players that earn their minutes. Crawford, quite simply, won't. He's not a system guy. He needs space. He can't work within the confines of an offense b/c he's at his best when he has the green light. He'd benefit from being traded, and so would we obviously. Don't talk to me about potential. Don't talk to me about Kwame. Since when do 25 y/o's in the NBA improve considerably....or at all?

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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