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Time to give I.T. Props
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Bonn1997
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7/26/2005  11:44 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by bobs3304:

he signed baker as a favor so that he could guarantee Crawford's availability.


i agree. his goal is to bring in young players for the future that can contribute now as well.

As a freaking favor to guarantee a player's availability that no other team was willing to take for the price that we paid??? You're freaking kidding me right? I guess you think that Isiah really is that much of a tool.

That's great that Isiah is giving away assets as favors. Utterly moronic.
Why is it moronic? If Crawford reaches his potential, it was well worthwile. If he doesn't, then it backfired and he wasted the MLE. I can understand the gamble because Crawford is a young, talented player.
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bobs3304
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7/26/2005  11:44 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by bobs3304:

he signed baker as a favor so that he could guarantee Crawford's availability.


i agree. his goal is to bring in young players for the future that can contribute now as well.

As a freaking favor to guarantee a player's availability that no other team was willing to take for the price that we paid??? You're freaking kidding me right? I guess you think that Isiah really is that much of a tool.

That's great that Isiah is giving away assets as favors. Utterly moronic.


it is what it is buddy.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
knicksavvy
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7/27/2005  12:08 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by islesfan:

I guess it's never too early to give Isiah his props or his due like in last weeks thread. But it's always way too early to criticize him because 18 months, 4 head coaches and 2 drastically different plans just isn't enough for some people.
I think fans in ny which I am a native just do not like IT for what reason I don't know but it seems we gave laydown a free pass. and we keep talking about the money How much did we sign huston 150 mill or something like that .and IT was not even in the picture.... yes we have to wait and see what this group of players can do under a coach like LB but you must admit 3 years ago we new what we were getting with laydon and chaney aND IT WAs not pretty .

I have no problem with a GM who realizes he was wrong by giving into theimmediate playoff pressure of NY. I have a problem with Layden signing guys to millions and trying to rip other teams off and then settling for Spoon & KVH and talking about how much he likes the team and its character guys!

I think using Layden as your measuring stick serverly short changes ones expectations. The layden era sucked, but holding Isiah to that standard is way too easy. We must go far and above the brief Layden era.

Isiah is not above having critic just cus he is better than layden!

We expect more than that!
Does my faith show? Go Knicks!!!
newyorknewyork
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7/27/2005  12:08 AM
Flexability is as important as cap space. We can complain about the cap all we want. But Marbury-Crawford-Nate-Richardson-Thomas-Ariza-Lee-Sweetney-JYD-Taylor-Frye-next yrs 2first rd draft picks and 2nd rd draft pick are all moveable. NY will rarley ever be under the cap and even if they were it wouldn't last long. So as long as we have the flexability to make moves while being in the position of strength then were in good shape. Now we might just add a great coach to the team as well that can teach the young player how to play and play well for yrs even after he is gone. As well as teach Herb Williams how to be a great coach so he can take over the Knicks after he is gone.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
gunsnewing
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7/27/2005  7:40 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Flexability is as important as cap space. We can complain about the cap all we want. But Marbury-Crawford-Nate-Richardson-Thomas-Ariza-Lee-Sweetney-JYD-Taylor-Frye-next yrs 2first rd draft picks and 2nd rd draft pick are all moveable. NY will rarley ever be under the cap and even if they were it wouldn't last long. So as long as we have the flexability to make moves while being in the position of strength then were in good shape. Now we might just add a great coach to the team as well that can teach the young player how to play and play well for yrs even after he is gone. As well as teach Herb Williams how to be a great coach so he can take over the Knicks after he is gone.

flexibility is HUGE. Look what it got the Heat. a high but reasonably priced player in Odom, a young player on the rise Butler & a filler Grant got them Shaq as good a shot as anyone at winning it all. Problem is we don't have that flexibility just yet. Marbury is vastly overpaid. Odom makes $14mil his last season while Marbury makes $22mil and both players are about on the same level. The only way we et flexibility is if guys like Crawford, Q etc erupt under Larry Brown. I guess we have to wish for the best and hang on tight until MArbury's contract runs out after 2009 and Larry is 70.
Bonn1997
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7/27/2005  8:43 AM
Marbury's not really overpaid. Like Fish said, he'd get a max contract if he were an FA. Any playoff team that needs a PG would trade for him. You can't buy the Chad Fraud claims. Dallas as one example paid $73 mil for Dampier; of course they'd be willing to pay $76 mil for Marbury.
bobs3304
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7/27/2005  8:46 AM
marbury won't be traded b/c that would be a horrible pr move for Isiah. now that things are getting serious with the signing of larry, you cut out the fat and add some muscle. marbury isn't fat, he's untenderized meat...


i can see rumors of crawford being traded to make their rounds eventually, but I don't think Isiah would seriously entertain offers.

taylor won't be traded b/c no one wants him. same goes for malik, but b/c of his contract.

jyd might strike some interest in playoff teams. sweetney MIGHT be shopped. timmy will be shopped from day one. same goes for penny.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
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7/27/2005  8:54 AM
Posted by bobs3304:

marbury won't be traded b/c that would be a horrible pr move for Isiah. now that things are getting serious with the signing of larry, you cut out the fat and add some muscle. marbury isn't fat, he's untenderized meat...
I agree; I was just addressing the claim that Marbury's overpaid/untradeable
diderotn
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7/27/2005  9:07 AM
Marb will shut you all up next season. He no longer has Kurt Thomas to undermine him, and he finally has a real proven coach to get him to the next level. Marb will earn his pay next season for sure.
The true Knickabocker..........
codeunknown
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7/27/2005  9:25 AM
Posted by Nalod:


HIs draft picks have yet to play a minute, lets not start sucking each others dick quite yet!

Yea lets agree to never do that . . .
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
codeunknown
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7/27/2005  9:41 AM

1. Cap space = ability to make large offers to free agents. Flexibility = asset versatility to make trades - in other words, having players signed to affordable contracts of varying lengths to maximize talent and salary matching.

Guys like Mo Taylor hurt both goals. Jerome James is less of a liability - there is potential to reach his contract value.

2. I'm not too impressed that Isiah wants to win now and long-term. Every sane GM in the league wants that. The question is what happens when they goals are mutually exclusive? When you have to choose to win now or win long-term? When you have to choose whther to get Mo Taylor (and hinder long-term flexibility) or not? Right there, knowing your priorities is crucial to maintaining an appropriate payroll.
Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
MS
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7/27/2005  9:54 AM
To me Isiah isn't really getting any due here....What has he done this offseason that is so special.

He used the mid-level right away to sign James and not looking at what other teams were willing to pay him, terrible move......

He made a terrible deal for Malik Rose, locking in a roster spot, and getting a player might be in the rotation, which we really didn't need.

He drafted Frye who I think is ****ing terrible, his game is garbage, he can't even make it through summer league without commiting 8 fouls, this kid played four years in college, is in shape and has long arms, when you picking up as many fouls as rebounds you have problems.......

And Larry coming, i don't care how long it is, it had to be done but lets not give isiah credit for waiting it out it was the smart thing to do, and you have someone that can groom Herb who will eventually take over
djsunyc
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7/27/2005  10:01 AM
Posted by MS:

To me Isiah isn't really getting any due here....What has he done this offseason that is so special.

He used the mid-level right away to sign James and not looking at what other teams were willing to pay him, terrible move......

He made a terrible deal for Malik Rose, locking in a roster spot, and getting a player might be in the rotation, which we really didn't need.

He drafted Frye who I think is ****ing terrible, his game is garbage, he can't even make it through summer league without commiting 8 fouls, this kid played four years in college, is in shape and has long arms, when you picking up as many fouls as rebounds you have problems.......

And Larry coming, i don't care how long it is, it had to be done but lets not give isiah credit for waiting it out it was the smart thing to do, and you have someone that can groom Herb who will eventually take over

the players will always be debateable, but you HAVE to give credit to isiah for waiting it out on brown. he could've easily hired flip, nate, or any one of those guys with a $8-9/mil a year offer. but he didn't. he WAITED and got the best coach available. don't dismiss that so easily and chalk it up to "just waiting it out". i think it was all planned for a while and it worked out perfectly for us. this is his best move to date and the only one that can't be questioned.
tkf
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7/27/2005  10:13 AM
Posted by MS:

To me Isiah isn't really getting any due here....What has he done this offseason that is so special.

He used the mid-level right away to sign James and not looking at what other teams were willing to pay him, terrible move......

He made a terrible deal for Malik Rose, locking in a roster spot, and getting a player might be in the rotation, which we really didn't need.

He drafted Frye who I think is ****ing terrible, his game is garbage, he can't even make it through summer league without commiting 8 fouls, this kid played four years in college, is in shape and has long arms, when you picking up as many fouls as rebounds you have problems.......

And Larry coming, i don't care how long it is, it had to be done but lets not give isiah credit for waiting it out it was the smart thing to do, and you have someone that can groom Herb who will eventually take over

I have a few questions. Do you think that getting Q was a good move or bad one? I say good from the talent stand point alone.

What about nate and lee who tore up the summer league? those guys were very good draft picks, and since you are using the summer league to judge frye(who by the way had a very good summer league) then we can only assume it is fair to use it to praise lee and nate.

JJ may have been a questionable signing but him did address a need of ours and that was to get a serviceable center, JJ is at least that and could be more. Is that really a Terrible move?

Signing larry Brown is a great move, no way to argue that..

So if you look at it, he drafted two good players( I said two because I am giving into your views of frye being garbage) made a good trade to get Q, signed a center and a HOF Coach.

To me that looks like 3 strong moves to one bad move( at least in your eyes). Would you not consider that a good offseason?

Just curious..

[Edited by - tkf on 07/27/2005 10:14:38]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
knicksavvy
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7/27/2005  10:17 AM
I remember they complained that the previous admin. didn't do any moves did not address the fans concerns and so on and so on I'm glad we have a GM that is willing to expieriment with our roster to find a combination that will work.... and by the way look at what talent he's added....well I guess only some people see that
Does my faith show? Go Knicks!!!
fishmike
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7/27/2005  10:19 AM
its a good discussion. If we were talking about another team and GM and the job he did I think you look at 3 factors as a bottom line.

1)Has the GM upgraded the talent
2)Has the GM improved the cap situation
3)Has the GM made moves that have translated into wins

Since its your team and GM its impossible not to put your own spin on things, good or bad. You can spin till the cows come home, but you cant escape those 3 point IMO. I think to be considered a "good" GM you have to have accomplished at least 2 of those things.

Right now I would give Isiah these grades:
1)Has the GM upgraded the talent - YES
2)Has the GM improved the cap situation - NO
3)Has the GM made moves that have translated into wins - NO

I will say it is early, and this offseason he clearly accomplished a lot. LB *can* make a big difference and the rookies *can* boost the team like what we saw in Chi. However it hasnt happened and when you read around more lean towards the idea its going to take some time. Right now I cant say Isiah has been a good GM, but I can say he's made some good moves recently. How these guy play this year will really tell a lot, not how many games we win, but how they play.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
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7/27/2005  10:21 AM
I have no problem with the Q deal because we got Nate Robinson...... and lets not forget Lampe put up 16.5 in summer league and was praised as a draft steal

But to me Isiah should get credit for Ariza, Brown, and if Q's back holds up then it turns out to be a great deal for the Knicks....

Bringing in Crawford was just plain stupid, he doesn't do anything well except take bad shots, so instead of having flexibility you now have two roster spots taken, which was my problem with trading Nazr who is better than Jerome James...

He took up another roster spot for a couple of years with Mo Taylor so these rookies aren't going to get major minutes at all

And anyone who pencils in Frye as a starter please get a ****ing clue
fishmike
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7/27/2005  10:23 AM
by the Bonn.. saying the MLE isnt a big deal couldnt be further from the truth. Swift, MArshall, Haslem, Daniels and Rahim have all signed for MLE type money, and Walker, Watson and a couple others will probably follow. Those are all core starter type players. If you want to call JJ that your pushing your luck with his career 17 minutes and 3.5 fouls per game.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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7/27/2005  10:38 AM
Posted by MS:

I have no problem with the Q deal because we got Nate Robinson...... and lets not forget Lampe put up 16.5 in summer league and was praised as a draft steal
But to me Isiah should get credit for Ariza, Brown, and if Q's back holds up then it turns out to be a great deal for the Knicks....

Bringing in Crawford was just plain stupid, he doesn't do anything well except take bad shots, so instead of having flexibility you now have two roster spots taken, which was my problem with trading Nazr who is better than Jerome James...

He took up another roster spot for a couple of years with Mo Taylor so these rookies aren't going to get major minutes at all

And anyone who pencils in Frye as a starter please get a ****ing clue

Thats my point, if summere league is no big deal, then why do you judge Frye so harshly on it? sounds contradictory to me...

And really you are buying too much into media BS, when did Q have a bad back, come on man, the guy missed 3 games with a little pain in his back, it is like saying a guy who gets his hands slammed in a door and misses 2 games, if his hands can hold up, it is a good trade.. Q's back has never been a issue...

And honestly, do you think craw averaged 17ppg by just taking bad shots? I mean how does that sound?
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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7/27/2005  10:40 AM
Posted by fishmike:

its a good discussion. If we were talking about another team and GM and the job he did I think you look at 3 factors as a bottom line.

1)Has the GM upgraded the talent
2)Has the GM improved the cap situation
3)Has the GM made moves that have translated into wins

Since its your team and GM its impossible not to put your own spin on things, good or bad. You can spin till the cows come home, but you cant escape those 3 point IMO. I think to be considered a "good" GM you have to have accomplished at least 2 of those things.

Right now I would give Isiah these grades:
1)Has the GM upgraded the talent - YES
2)Has the GM improved the cap situation - NO
3)Has the GM made moves that have translated into wins - NO

I will say it is early, and this offseason he clearly accomplished a lot. LB *can* make a big difference and the rookies *can* boost the team like what we saw in Chi. However it hasnt happened and when you read around more lean towards the idea its going to take some time. Right now I cant say Isiah has been a good GM, but I can say he's made some good moves recently. How these guy play this year will really tell a lot, not how many games we win, but how they play.

fish, how can you grade point number 3 right now, we have no idea on how many wins, Q, and the draft picks result in for us...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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