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LARRY BROWN ---ALMOST
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simrud
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7/26/2005  6:05 PM
JVG is not even in Brown's universe.

He has had good teams his entire coahing career. The first year he got a bad team he quit 11 games into the season!

Brown meanwhile has coahed all kinds of reclamation projects, for goodness sakes, he took the Clippers and the Nets to the playoffs, who can even come close to that?

JVG is a highly limited basketball mind, a guy who only knows how to design defenses, and doesnt have a clue when it comes to makin a playbook. We had ONE play after Ewing was gone, an iso on the wing for Houston or Spree. Oh, yeah and we started every game witht he same play that never worked, posting up the 6 6 broken down LJ no matter who he was up against like he was a post threat lih last two years with us.

To compare JVG's and Brown's career records is just plain unfair, considering what Brown had to work with for ALOT of his coaching career. He had to work with the Clippers, the Nets, the godawful Sixers, etc. JVG only had to coach the Knicks when they were still good and now the Rockets with Yao and Francis, and then with Yao and Tmac.

Why a team with Tmac and Yao on the roster can't make any noise in the playoffs is just unexcusbale. If Jackson or Brown were coahign that team they would have at least made the conference finals last year.

All JVG could muster up was a puny playoff appearance. Just watch, now he wount even play Swift enough, and in a year or tow, Tmac will have him canned for a coach who can actually coach both sides of the ball.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
AUTOADVERT
jaydh
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7/26/2005  6:28 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by misterearl:

>> I think what excites me the most is I dont have to listen to people blame Chaney, Lenny or Herb for everything thats wrong.

fishmike - I can't wait for the neagtive spin from Mitch Lawrence

Just think.... Larry Brown, Head Coach, New York Knicks

Sheesh

Finally home!

it appears that it is the goal of Isaih to bring the home-grown talent back to NY(first marbs, now larry). A New Yorker(and sometimes others) will always want to be apart of a New York organization.
jaydh
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7/26/2005  6:30 PM
Posted by BigRedDog:

Sorry but you can't use overall career records to compare coaches. JVG is a very good coach, but LB is a great coach. JVG is best at teaching defense and getting players to play hard. He sucks at offense. Remember when we got camby? He never played him at first saying "the matchups didn't work".He only played him when injuries hit and he had no choice.Great coaches recognize that talent right away. I may be wrong but did LB ever quit on his team in the middle of a season like JVG? LB was coach of the year 4 times /JVG-zero.How mant championships did JVG win? Of course any team needs talent but can you tell me you won't see a difference with any team with a 1st yr coach vs if a Bill Parcells coaches that team?

I think JVG will be better in the long run. I think you said why right there. JVG is better at teaching defense and making his players play hard. Thats what wins. period

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/26/2005 18:31:38]
BRIGGS
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7/26/2005  8:27 PM
Posted by BigRedDog:
Posted by BRIGGS:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/vanguje99c.html

JVG-9 seasons .589 w% 1 finals playoff win 41 % .51

LB-22 seasons .571 3 finals playoff win 100 % .521

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownla01c.html


how much difference here?

Im glad we are getting larry brown, but im not running out of my socks. if brown can do what jvg can do with the Knicks, he'll be lucky. like i said , cool we got brown, but the key is to continue to acquire young talent

Sorry but you can't use overall career records to compare coaches. JVG is a very good coach, but LB is a great coach. JVG is best at teaching defense and getting players to play hard. He sucks at offense. Remember when we got camby? He never played him at first saying "the matchups didn't work".He only played him when injuries hit and he had no choice.Great coaches recognize that talent right away. I may be wrong but did LB ever quit on his team in the middle of a season like JVG? LB was coach of the year 4 times /JVG-zero.How mant championships did JVG win? Of course any team needs talent but can you tell me you won't see a difference with any team with a 1st yr coach vs if a Bill Parcells coaches that team?

[Edited by - BigRedDog on 07/26/2005 17:57:52]


People are bonkers. You state that Jeff gets his teams to play hard and play defense--guess what doing that gets 90% of the job done. does Larry brown have intricate offensive sets like Phil Jackson or Red Holzman, no. He gets them to play hard, play together and play defense.

really not much differnce between the two--they are on a complete parrallel course--almost even to a tee. JVG is 13 years behind, but i suspect with what he has now, he will be going to the finals again very soon, perhaps a few times.

Its like some of these people who dont understand that scott layden was one of the better gMs in the history of basketball. Name me another GM in recent history that drafted karl malone and john stockton with mid round picks b-b, traded for guys like jeff hornacek--got to the finals twice--how many 50+ win years? and finished of by drafting andrei kirelnko?

i think NY was not for Layden. if Mcdyess knee didnt blow up, he would still be here, but in reality his best place is in utah, and I bet he will be back in the front office soomer than later. we dont know the full story, we do know he isnt for nY.
RIP Crushalot😞
BigRedDog
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7/26/2005  8:29 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by BigRedDog:

Sorry but you can't use overall career records to compare coaches. JVG is a very good coach, but LB is a great coach. JVG is best at teaching defense and getting players to play hard. He sucks at offense. Remember when we got camby? He never played him at first saying "the matchups didn't work".He only played him when injuries hit and he had no choice.Great coaches recognize that talent right away. I may be wrong but did LB ever quit on his team in the middle of a season like JVG? LB was coach of the year 4 times /JVG-zero.How mant championships did JVG win? Of course any team needs talent but can you tell me you won't see a difference with any team with a 1st yr coach vs if a Bill Parcells coaches that team?

I think JVG will be better in the long run. I think you said why right there. JVG is better at teaching defense and making his players play hard. Thats what wins. period

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/26/2005 18:31:38]
I didn't say JVG was better than Lb at defense just that teaching defense is the only thing JVG does . LB is a excellent defensive coach. And again you can't compare the two, LB is much better.
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
simrud
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7/26/2005  8:38 PM
Layden had nothing to do with Malone and Stockton, it was his father who drafted them. Do you realize how young Layden was when we go him? How in the world was he there to get Stockton like 15 years ago? He was the Utah GM when he was like 23? Cmon man you know better then that.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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7/26/2005  8:51 PM
[quote]
Posted by simrud:

Layden had nothing to do with Malone and Stockton, it was his father who drafted them. Do you realize how young Layden was when we go him? How in the world was he there to get Stockton like 15 years ago? He was the Utah GM when he was like 23? Cmon man you know better then that.


http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600146578,00.html


Karl Malone
John Srockton
Andrei Kirlenko all with mid to late round picks
RIP Crushalot😞
Rich
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7/26/2005  8:59 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

i believe you said this was the most exciting thing in 20 years, and its not. Jeff Van Gundy is just as good of a coach as Brown and 25 years younger.

I disagree. Almost all great coaches have charisma. Brown has it; Van Gundy doesn't.
manilaballer
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7/26/2005  9:02 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]
Posted by simrud:

Layden had nothing to do with Malone and Stockton, it was his father who drafted them. Do you realize how young Layden was when we go him? How in the world was he there to get Stockton like 15 years ago? He was the Utah GM when he was like 23? Cmon man you know better then that.


http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600146578,00.html


Karl Malone
John Srockton
Andrei Kirlenko all with mid to late round picks

The article says he built the supporting cast of Stockton and Malone, I don't think he had anything to do with drafting those two. He drafted Kirilenko, that's it.
KNICKS 2006
BRIGGS
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7/26/2005  9:04 PM
Posted by manilaballer:

[quote]Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by simrud:

Layden had nothing to do with Malone and Stockton, it was his father who drafted them. Do you realize how young Layden was when we go him? How in the world was he there to get Stockton like 15 years ago? He was the Utah GM when he was like 23? Cmon man you know better then that.


http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600146578,00.html


Karl Malone
John Srockton
Andrei Kirlenko all with mid to late round picks

The article says he built the supporting cast of Stockton and Malone, I don't think he had anything to do with drafting those two. He drafted Kirilenko, that's it.


http://www.hoopsvibe.com/music-to-his-ears-jazz-and-layden-reunite-article-22902.html
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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7/26/2005  9:12 PM
He is responsible for drafting Future Hall-of-Fame players in point guard John Stockton (1984) and power forward Karl Malone (1985) in successive drafts. The two players, along with Sloan, helped solidify a once dismal franchise into a perennial winner.
its painfull but true. You can see how and why he got the Knick job, its hard to understand how or why he sucked so bad
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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7/26/2005  9:13 PM
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
simrud
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7/26/2005  9:18 PM
He WAS NOT the GM EVER! He was many things for them, the highest position being vice president of basketball operations.

It says so in the articel you posted BRIGGS. Last time I checked the GM drafts and signs guys.

They can spin it all they want, and say that he was responsible for this and that, but he was not the GM.

And he does suck beyond belief. This is they guy that signed Spoon for a billion years when we needed a freakin center, and got a 6 6 fat PF on the decline instead, as if thou we did not have 20 of them on the roster already.

This is the guy who traded Ewing for a washed up Rice, Luc Longley who was also mecially unable to play, and Travi Knight, a joke of a bsketball player with a big deal that he got from Boston for some reason.

This is the guy that traded Rice for Anderson and Eisly, both incredibly overpaid and signed for a billion of years.

This is they guy that gave Allan Houston 100 mil 7 year contract for no apparent reason, when nobody was even biddin against us.

This is the guy tho traded for a super injury prone PF who was never a winner to begin with on the Nuggets givin up our last semblance of a center in Camby and a lottery pick to boot.

This is they guy who traded for a washed up Mark Jackon givin up a 1st round pick in the proces, and a player who was arguably better at that point in Childs, who schooled Jackon in the playoffs, and who might have carried the Raptors to the postseason that year after Carter went down.

This is the guy that drafted players in the 2nd round that never even showed up to trainin camp, every year that he was here, I mean not even training camp???

This is the guy whose only good move was getting Doleac to sign here, and luckin into picking Lampe in the 2nd round.

This is alos they guy who gave Chaney a 2 year extension the year Carlisile and Brown were avialble because he was in a rush and did not wate for them to become free, in a rush to extedn a coch who SUCKED!

This is a guy who the joke of the entire basketball world during his tenure with the Knicks.

This is they guy that ruined a franchise that went to the finals in 99, as he singlhandedly oblitirated it into a pathetic boring, old, overpaid, unmotivated, badly coached group of pathetic loosers who go to the lottery every year.

Scott Layden is an absolute moron, and one of the worst things to happen to the Knicks in franchise history.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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7/26/2005  9:29 PM
stop with your mis-informed rant. Scott Layden was responsible for drafting John Stockton and Karkl Malone in back to back drafts. Anyone who knows nBA history knows this. Blindly ranting about something you obviously have no knowledge about is a waste of time. You are wrong, you dont have a clue.
RIP Crushalot😞
Marv
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7/26/2005  9:43 PM
Posted by simrud:

He WAS NOT the GM EVER! He was many things for them, the highest position being vice president of basketball operations.

It says so in the articel you posted BRIGGS. Last time I checked the GM drafts and signs guys.

They can spin it all they want, and say that he was responsible for this and that, but he was not the GM.

And he does suck beyond belief. This is they guy that signed Spoon for a billion years when we needed a freakin center, and got a 6 6 fat PF on the decline instead, as if thou we did not have 20 of them on the roster already.

This is the guy who traded Ewing for a washed up Rice, Luc Longley who was also mecially unable to play, and Travi Knight, a joke of a bsketball player with a big deal that he got from Boston for some reason.

This is the guy that traded Rice for Anderson and Eisly, both incredibly overpaid and signed for a billion of years.

This is they guy that gave Allan Houston 100 mil 7 year contract for no apparent reason, when nobody was even biddin against us.

This is the guy tho traded for a super injury prone PF who was never a winner to begin with on the Nuggets givin up our last semblance of a center in Camby and a lottery pick to boot.

This is they guy who traded for a washed up Mark Jackon givin up a 1st round pick in the proces, and a player who was arguably better at that point in Childs, who schooled Jackon in the playoffs, and who might have carried the Raptors to the postseason that year after Carter went down.

This is the guy that drafted players in the 2nd round that never even showed up to trainin camp, every year that he was here, I mean not even training camp???

This is the guy whose only good move was getting Doleac to sign here, and luckin into picking Lampe in the 2nd round.

This is alos they guy who gave Chaney a 2 year extension the year Carlisile and Brown were avialble because he was in a rush and did not wate for them to become free, in a rush to extedn a coch who SUCKED!

This is a guy who the joke of the entire basketball world during his tenure with the Knicks.

This is they guy that ruined a franchise that went to the finals in 99, as he singlhandedly oblitirated it into a pathetic boring, old, overpaid, unmotivated, badly coached group of pathetic loosers who go to the lottery every year.

Scott Layden is an absolute moron, and one of the worst things to happen to the Knicks in franchise history.

i love this post. it's like a long poem, something out of homer or yeats or something. it's like a favorite old song you want to hear over and over again.
Silverfuel
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7/26/2005  9:58 PM
Scott Layden sucked as the Knicks GM. He was the worst thing to happen to the Knicks since 1985! He ruined this franchise by putting us in a financial mess. Isiah got us some contracts that will end soon and bring us some releif. Isiah is also getting us the best coach he could. I cannot see why anyone isnt extremely happy with LB signing.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
simrud
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7/26/2005  10:40 PM
stop with your mis-informed rant. Scott Layden was responsible for drafting John Stockton and Karkl Malone in back to back drafts. Anyone who knows nBA history knows this. Blindly ranting about something you obviously have no knowledge about is a waste of time. You are wrong, you dont have a clue.

Anybody who says Layden is a good GM has no clue. The article clearly says he was a scout and a vice preisident of basketball operations.

How does that make him solely repsonsible for draftin Malone and Stockton? How do you know who had the most input into those decisions for Utah? Were you there?

Its makes much more sense to judge him on his tenure as a GM when he had all the contorl, with the Knicks. He did a terrible job.

Instead of tellin me I have no clue try to defend one move Layde made here.

I love it how you ignore the points made about JVG career winnin record comparison as well. Sometimes you really piss me off man.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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7/26/2005  10:57 PM
layden was not a match for the ny-we dont know what mandates from Dolan were--a team that was clearly in need of rebuilding did not have the opportunity to rebuild. whatever move layden made or didnt make, the defining moment was when mcdyess knee shattered. while i thought the best direction for the team was drafting, and set me into convulsion like posting about why we should draft amare stoudemire on nykbasketball.com, i still respect the attempt there. it was high risk, but if mcdyess came back to play like the old mcdyess, we wouldve had a frontcourt franchise player who was 26-27. A guy on the same level of all the top guys, and wouldve been a terror in the east. his knee blew up and that was it.
he was the person responsible for the Jazz drafting stockton and malone, you can do some research and find out, or choose to believe otherwise. and he didnt leave ytah empty handed--he drafted andrei kirelnko on the way out. what he did in NY, I think was a combination of things from all parties, especially the owner believeing that the joyride of winning would continue. layden didnt do a good job here, but he was a frontman who was being pulled by strings.


JVG --the guy has a .589 w % over 9 years with 41 playoff wins and 1 finals, not one losing season. he gets his teams to play hard to play defense and wins what else is there to say?-the bottom line is jeff van gundy is an elite coach in this league. you dont like his hair transplants--i agree not very good.
RIP Crushalot😞
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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7/26/2005  11:37 PM
Posted by fishmike:



LMAOOOOOOO..... That pic brings back memories... Dark days...

Thank God for Isiah Thomas. When is the press conference?

That Q&A on Friday is gonna be wild!

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 07/26/2005 23:37:31]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Bonn1997
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7/26/2005  11:38 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by fishmike:



LMAOOOOOOO..... That pic brings back memories... Dark days...

Thank God for Isiah Thomas. When is the press conference?

That Q&A on Friday is gonna be wild!

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 07/26/2005 23:37:31]
Fish used to post that all the time at MSG. It's been so long!
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