[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

NBA INSIDER - More Chad Ford Rumblings
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 3 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
7/12/2005  3:13 PM
Atlanta is better off with Marbury than we are. They already drafted their young core in Marvin, childress and smith with the cap room to add Joe Johnson or Dalembert. Marvin could be the allstar we can't afford because of Marbury's contract hurting our cap. I think it would be a brilliant move for Atlanta eventhough Marbury will be making in the $20millions per year. They already have the high ceiling talent in place. With MArbury on the Knicks all we can do is talk about adding role players with the MLE and trading expiring contracts for rejects.

Marbury would rather stay a Knick but if there's one place he wouldn't mind going its to atlanta where the fans love him and where he'll get the chance to play with exciting young and athletic players frontcourt and backcourt players who will make him look good and not just a pick and roll PG. More like the PG he was in Phoenix.

As for the Knicks we'd be stacking up on high lottery picks and the chance of landing Lebron or another top free agent to add to the mix of high lottery talent

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/12/2005 15:24:22]
AUTOADVERT
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/12/2005  3:20 PM
I agree with everything Guns just said, expect for the fact that A.) We wouldn't necessarily be a lottery team for long and B.) If Larry Brown is in fact available, you keep Marbury and go after a legit Big that can man the paint.


But it's 50/50 right now on where Larry will end up, so let's no go overboard in assuming Steph is as good as gone. If Larry makes the jump to NY, he could do wonders for this team and this city, and especially for Marbury, just like he did for Billups...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
7/12/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:

That Hawk trade would be TERRIBLE. We wouldn't be bringing in Harrington for his expiring contract. Isiah loves him and would keep him. Plus, this creates a God Awful even worse logjam at the guard position with Delk and Lue, who are worthy of minutes. No thanks to that trade. Marbury is better than Harrington anyway. I don't see what Zeke likes in that trade, but not in Dalembert. I would hand in my Knick card if we did that, and then signed WALKER.

If ATL adds their 1st round pick in '06, & the cap space afforded from that deal gives the Knicks a realistic shot at signing Lebron in '07, i'm 100% behind that idea.

I would be down with that.
If the Knicks are seriously considering getting under the cap, then I could understand that move. But I see no evidence that they are going in that rebuilding direction. It looks like their direction is to get young, tough, athletic players via the draft and via trades with no regard for how much Dolan has to pay the players.

Unlike you, I take Isiah at his word. He has said the Knicks are rebuilding. IMO, there is no other way to end the "1973" chants.
I take nothing any GM says to the media at his word. I judge them by their actions.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
7/12/2005  3:29 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Rich:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Allanfan20:

That Hawk trade would be TERRIBLE. We wouldn't be bringing in Harrington for his expiring contract. Isiah loves him and would keep him. Plus, this creates a God Awful even worse logjam at the guard position with Delk and Lue, who are worthy of minutes. No thanks to that trade. Marbury is better than Harrington anyway. I don't see what Zeke likes in that trade, but not in Dalembert. I would hand in my Knick card if we did that, and then signed WALKER.

If ATL adds their 1st round pick in '06, & the cap space afforded from that deal gives the Knicks a realistic shot at signing Lebron in '07, i'm 100% behind that idea.

I would be down with that.
If the Knicks are seriously considering getting under the cap, then I could understand that move. But I see no evidence that they are going in that rebuilding direction. It looks like their direction is to get young, tough, athletic players via the draft and via trades with no regard for how much Dolan has to pay the players.

Unlike you, I take Isiah at his word. He has said the Knicks are rebuilding. IMO, there is no other way to end the "1973" chants.
I take nothing any GM says to the media at his word. I judge them by their actions.

He kept the three first round picks rather than trade them for veterans; he traded a 32 year old KT for a younger player (and a draft pick upgrade); he acquired Rose purportedly for the picks.

Outside of the Mo Taylor trade, which is inexplicably under any model, those would seem to be the actions of a GM who decided to rebuild after he couldn't follow up the Marbury trade with one for Rasheed.
Nalod
Posts: 71389
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
7/12/2005  3:34 PM
[/quote]
I take nothing any GM says to the media at his word. I judge them by their actions.
[/quote]

Dem is some wise sheet you just said!

But one thing though, When chad goes off on the knicks the last few years, he has been more right than wrong. He ripped them to shreads last fall and most thought he was being silly. Dude was more right than not.

Beat writers floating this kinda crap, just not worthy of getting you feathers ruffled! Good advice Bonnie!

And Isiah is wise to explore his options! If nate is a freak the garden will watch him play, and he can move Marbs and set up for another tank year for a high draft choice, play the kids, and clean the table for Lebron! Mo T also expires in two years!

show em my new motto!
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/12/2005  3:42 PM
Actually, I disagree. The moves Isiah has made so far have appeared to me to be in anticipation of building a solid playoff contender, with all your necessary role players. His most recent additions, besides Q, were Rose and Taylor, 2 unstellar PF's that make up in experience and consistency what they lack in athleticism, youth, and upside. Even the draft picks paint a picture - with the exception of maybe Nate, these rookies will grow into solid role players off the bench.

However, I believe Isiah has suddenly realized in the past few months that it's harder to build a playoff caliber team when you're lacking size and a worthy coach. Seeing as how Larry Brown is still a very big IF, and guys like Kwame, Stro, and James simply won't cut it, he's juggling two directions to go - brief rebuilding or instant playoff contention. If Larry climbs on board, I fully expect Marbury to stay, and Isiah to do what he has to add some legit size to man the paint. And if Larry isn't attainable, I also strongly believe Isiah will have been prepared b/c he realizes he has no leverage in this situation. Larry will say one thing, and do another. So, that said, if he retires or stays in Detroit, I expect Zeke to deal Marbury along with 1 of our high-priced PF's to a team in need of an elite PG. With cap space and a relatively young team, we would then look to stockpile draft picks and add players with size, length, and athletic potential in the next year or two. All of this, meanwhile, would make us a suitor for Lebron in 07.

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
7/12/2005  3:46 PM
sounds good and all, but this team, even if it traded marbs for expiring deals and somehow cleared moT off the cap, WILL NOT BE UNDER THE CAP UNTIL 2007/2008.
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
7/12/2005  3:49 PM
Posted by jaydh:

sounds good and all, but this team, even if it traded marbs for expiring deals and somehow cleared moT off the cap, WILL NOT BE UNDER THE CAP UNTIL 2007/2008.

which happens to be exactly when Lebron becomes a Free agent
jaydh
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
7/12/2005  3:51 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by jaydh:

sounds good and all, but this team, even if it traded marbs for expiring deals and somehow cleared moT off the cap, WILL NOT BE UNDER THE CAP UNTIL 2007/2008.

which happens to be exactly when Lebron becomes a Free agent

why would lebron come here? because we have caproom? trust me, even though we may be under the cap, it wont be enough to offer a max deal.
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
7/12/2005  3:52 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Actually, I disagree. The moves Isiah has made so far have appeared to me to be in anticipation of building a solid playoff contender, with all your necessary role players. His most recent additions, besides Q, were Rose and Taylor, 2 unstellar PF's that make up in experience and consistency what they lack in athleticism, youth, and upside. Even the draft picks paint a picture - with the exception of maybe Nate, these rookies will grow into solid role players off the bench.

However, I believe Isiah has suddenly realized in the past few months that it's harder to build a playoff caliber team when you're lacking size and a worthy coach. Seeing as how Larry Brown is still a very big IF, and guys like Kwame, Stro, and James simply won't cut it, he's juggling two directions to go - brief rebuilding or instant playoff contention. If Larry climbs on board, I fully expect Marbury to stay, and Isiah to do what he has to add some legit size to man the paint. And if Larry isn't attainable, I also strongly believe Isiah will have been prepared b/c he realizes he has no leverage in this situation. Larry will say one thing, and do another. So, that said, if he retires or stays in Detroit, I expect Zeke to deal Marbury along with 1 of our high-priced PF's to a team in need of an elite PG. With cap space and a relatively young team, we would then look to stockpile draft picks and add players with size, length, and athletic potential in the next year or two. All of this, meanwhile, would make us a suitor for Lebron in 07.

I actually don't think Isiah has a plan. He has merely made a series of ad hoc moves without a clear overarching theme.
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
7/12/2005  3:56 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by jaydh:

sounds good and all, but this team, even if it traded marbs for expiring deals and somehow cleared moT off the cap, WILL NOT BE UNDER THE CAP UNTIL 2007/2008.

which happens to be exactly when Lebron becomes a Free agent


why would lebron come here? because we have caproom? trust me, even though we may be under the cap, it wont be enough to offer a max deal.

then we'll go after Wade, Bosh or Okafor, Garnett & Brand the year after

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/12/2005 16:00:16]
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/12/2005  3:57 PM
Posted by jaydh:

sounds good and all, but this team, even if it traded marbs for expiring deals and somehow cleared moT off the cap, WILL NOT BE UNDER THE CAP UNTIL 2007/2008.

actually, with Penny, Timmy, Marbury, and Malik, Taylor, or JYD off the cap by 2006, we'd be under the cap, especially b/c the salary cap slowly increases every year.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the cap is around 50 Mill next year.

Let's say, to be on the safe side, we're around 110 Mill. right now.

110 - 30(Penny & Timmy) - 17(Marbury) - 6(Malik or JYD) OR 9(Taylor):

amounts to about 55 Million depending on which PF we'd trade.
that's VERY close to being at the cap, and by next season, we'd have more than 20-25 Million to take a shot at signing lebron b/c of Houston's and JYD's/Malik's and/orTaylor's expiring contracts...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/12/2005 15:57:59]

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/12/2005 16:05:00]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
7/12/2005  4:02 PM
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by jaydh:

sounds good and all, but this team, even if it traded marbs for expiring deals and somehow cleared moT off the cap, WILL NOT BE UNDER THE CAP UNTIL 2007/2008.

actually, with Penny, Timmy, Marbury, and Malik, Taylor, or JYD off the cap by 2006, we'd be under the cap, especially b/c the salary cap slowly increases every year.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the cap is around 50 Mill next year.

Let's say, to be on the safe side, we're around 110 Mill. right now.

110 - 30(Penny & Timmy) - 17(Marbury) - 6(Malik or JYD) OR 9(Taylor):

amounts to about 55 Million depending on which PF we'd trade.
that's VERY close to being at the cap, and by next season, we'd have more than 15 Million to take a shot at signing lebron b/c of Houston's expiring contract...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/12/2005 15:57:59]

who is going to take malik, jyd, and taylor? and we wont take any salary back in the process? those will be, by far, isiahs best moves of yet if he can accomplish that... in other words, its a pipedream.

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/12/2005 16:02:59]

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/12/2005 16:03:37]
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/12/2005  4:03 PM
Posted by jaydh:
Posted by bobs3304:
Posted by jaydh:

sounds good and all, but this team, even if it traded marbs for expiring deals and somehow cleared moT off the cap, WILL NOT BE UNDER THE CAP UNTIL 2007/2008.

actually, with Penny, Timmy, Marbury, and Malik, Taylor, or JYD off the cap by 2006, we'd be under the cap, especially b/c the salary cap slowly increases every year.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the cap is around 50 Mill next year.

Let's say, to be on the safe side, we're around 110 Mill. right now.

110 - 30(Penny & Timmy) - 17(Marbury) - 6(Malik or JYD) OR 9(Taylor):

amounts to about 55 Million depending on which PF we'd trade.
that's VERY close to being at the cap, and by next season, we'd have more than 15 Million to take a shot at signing lebron b/c of Houston's expiring contract...

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/12/2005 15:57:59]

who is going to take malik, jyd, and taylor? and not take any salary back in the process? those will be, by far, isiahs best moves of yet if he can accomplish that... in other words, its a pipedream.

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/12/2005 16:02:59]


Well, apparently Atlanta. God knows they can absorb it and then some.

And it would only be one of them...not all 3.



[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/12/2005 16:05:42]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
djsunyc
Posts: 44929
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
7/12/2005  4:04 PM
lebron is actually a RESTRICTED free agent in 07/08 (since cleveland picked up his 4th year option already). there's no way cleveland wouldn't match on any offer sheet he signs. so if you want to sign lebron OUTRIGHT, it would have to wait til 08/09. now, with that said, it doesn't mean he couldn't force a sign and trade but it's not as clear cut as it seems.

isiah's plan was to pair marbury with h20 and craw off the bench. h20 threw that plan out of wack. so marbury's effectiveness is not as high as was expected b/c chances are against finding a jump shooting replacement for h20. so isiah had to scramble and change up the plan along the way when it became apparent that marbs alone couldn't carry the team.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/12/2005  4:06 PM
^ exactly. Well said. He DID have a long-term plan, but Isiah had to consider other options b/c of the unforseen...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
7/12/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Well, apparently Atlanta. God knows they can absorb it and then some.

why would they want too? just for marbury? if atl is going after curry and JJ, they wont have any extra space.
Nalod
Posts: 71389
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
7/12/2005  4:09 PM
WOuldn't that be 2007?

Rookie year: 03-04 1st year
Soph:04-05 2nd year (just past)
upcoming: 05-06
Freedom: july 2007
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/12/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

lebron is actually a RESTRICTED free agent in 07/08 (since cleveland picked up his 4th year option already). there's no way cleveland wouldn't match on any offer sheet he signs. so if you want to sign lebron OUTRIGHT, it would have to wait til 08/09. now, with that said, it doesn't mean he couldn't force a sign and trade but it's not as clear cut as it seems.

isiah's plan was to pair marbury with h20 and craw off the bench. h20 threw that plan out of wack. so marbury's effectiveness is not as high as was expected b/c chances are against finding a jump shooting replacement for h20. so isiah had to scramble and change up the plan along the way when it became apparent that marbs alone couldn't carry the team.

actually, what makes you think Cleveland would offer a Maxed-out contract? They'll already have Ilgasukus and Hughes with near max salaries, and someone like Haslem making 6+ million, along with Snow and Co. Cleveland is small market, and I'm not sure if we threw everything at Lebron, that the Cavs would put up all those $$$.

And even if they were willing, Lebron could always push for a S & There are certain incentives for a player of his caliber to play in the Big Apple...
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/16/2001
Member: #96
7/12/2005  4:10 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

And it would only be one of them...not all 3.
[Edited by - bobs3304 on 07/12/2005 16:05:42]

well then we wont be under the cap unless they are all gone, for capspace.
Page 3 of 5 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4  5 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
NBA INSIDER - More Chad Ford Rumblings
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy