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gunsnewing
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7/9/2005  5:31 PM
ballers:
KG
Kobe
Mcgrady
Amare
Jermaine
Lebron
Jefferson
Curry
Chandler
Kwame
JR Smith
Josh Smith
Miles
Outlaw
Telfair

VS

Busts:
Bender
Diop
Leon Smith
Stevenson


[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/09/2005 17:41:55]
AUTOADVERT
TheloniusMonk
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7/9/2005  5:31 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

you put 10 players on that list as though they're allstar worthy. You're loosing it man. Some of those guys suck and others are simply "serviceable" and with others the jury is still out. Stop calling "serviceable" players "special" because they're not.

but I thought every high player with the except of KG, kobe and jermaine are busts? I don't know if it was you who said it but someone did

I never said that. My reaction is to the fact that everytime you bring up Greene or Bynum you say that we past up the next KG, Kobe, McGrady etc. By listing those guys you've helped prove MY point. Which is most guys that have come from highschool have been serviceable at best. Others have been busts. Like Kwame, Leon Smith, Diop, Stevenson and Bender. See how that list evens up to the allstar highschoolers. Bust and special highschool amount to the same. But the MAJORITY of them are only serviceable at best.

on record what do you realistically think Frye will do in the NBA?

How long do you think he'll stay a Knick before we trade him for frontline help?

I cannot say if or when we will trade him. I don't know what Isiah will do if situations arise. If a better situation comes along, I'm sure he WOULD trade him just like the Lakers would trade Jahidi White-Bynum if something arises I'm sure.

I believe that in Frye's prime he will average 2 blocks, 10 rebounds and 18 points per game.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Silverfuel
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7/9/2005  5:32 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

on record what do you realistically think Frye will do in the NBA?
You are missing the point. We dont have enough data to come even close to accurately judging his performance. It took Spree and Camby almost 3 moths to adjust to the Knicks team. Frye is just a rookie! He will take time, maybe around mid season. Ask me again, i'll tell you then.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
TheloniusMonk
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7/9/2005  5:35 PM
CORRECTION

Allstars:
KG
Kobe
Mcgrady
Amare
Jermaine
Lebron

VS

Serviceable:

Telfair
Chandler
Curry
Jefferson
Randolph


Busts:
Bender
Diop
Leon Smith
Stevenson
Miles (he was selected VERRRRY HIGH)

Jury still out:

JR Smith
Josh Smith
Outlaw

'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Silverfuel
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7/9/2005  5:36 PM
Your list isnt good guns. You are not going anywhere with this approach. Figure out another way to convince people. This is what I would do...
ballers:
KG
Kobe
Mcgrady
Amare
Jermaine
Lebron
Randolph (If this is Zach Randolph, he went to college Michigan State) http://www.nba.com/playerfile/zach_randolph/

Up and coming
Jefferson
Curry
Chandler
JR Smith
Josh Smith

Average (Jamal Crawford equivalent or less)
Miles
Outlaw
Telfair

VS

Busts:
Kwame
Bender
Diop
Leon Smith
Stevenson
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
TheloniusMonk
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7/9/2005  5:36 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by gunsnewing:

on record what do you realistically think Frye will do in the NBA?
You are missing the point. We dont have enough data to come even close to accurately judging his performance. It took Spree and Camby almost 3 moths to adjust to the Knicks team. Frye is just a rookie! He will take time, maybe around mid season. Ask me again, i'll tell you then.

Exactly! Any player can improve. That comes from within. These guys know absolutely NOTHING about a players will to win.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Pharzeone
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7/9/2005  5:36 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

you put 10 players on that list as though they're allstar worthy. You're loosing it man. Some of those guys suck and others are simply "serviceable" and with others the jury is still out. Stop calling "serviceable" players "special" because they're not.

but I thought every high player with the except of KG, kobe and jermaine are busts? I don't know if it was you who said it but someone did
Leon Smith is the first to come to mind, then Q Woods the other McGrady clone, Kwame is the poster boy, Bender, and that guy the T-Wolves traded for... Smith (went insane) and Kwame (probably going insane) are probably the worst cases. To be honest the only HSer that came in and had instant success was Lebron. Kobe is probably next. KG had a so so rookie year and was ridicule by his teammates especially Laettner.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Pharzeone
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7/9/2005  5:38 PM
Just read Silver's post. Damn I could I have left off Byn... I mean Diop, and yeah Stevenson.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
gunsnewing
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7/9/2005  5:38 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

you put 10 players on that list as though they're allstar worthy. You're loosing it man. Some of those guys suck and others are simply "serviceable" and with others the jury is still out. Stop calling "serviceable" players "special" because they're not.

but I thought every high player with the except of KG, kobe and jermaine are busts? I don't know if it was you who said it but someone did
Leon Smith is the first to come to mind, then Q Woods the other McGrady clone, Kwame is the poster boy, Bender, and that guy the T-Wolves traded for... Smith (went insane) and Kwame (probably going insane) are probably the worst cases. To be honest the only HSer that came in and had instant success was Lebron. Kobe is probably next. KG had a so so rookie year and was ridicule by his teammates especially Laettner.

but many of those 18yr olds will see increased playing time and develop into good players. Not allstars but not busts like many suggested either
TheloniusMonk
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7/9/2005  5:38 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Your list isnt good guns. You are not going anywhere with this approach. Figure out another way to convince people. This is what I would do...
ballers:
KG
Kobe
Mcgrady
Amare
Jermaine
Lebron
Randolph (If this is Zach Randolph, he went to college Michigan State) http://www.nba.com/playerfile/zach_randolph/

Up and coming
Jefferson
Curry
Chandler
JR Smith
Josh Smith

Average (Jamal Crawford equivalent or less)
Miles
Outlaw
Telfair

VS

Busts:
Kwame
Bender
Diop
Leon Smith
Stevenson

We're on the same page with this. And yes, you're absoluetly right. Zach did play in college.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
gunsnewing
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7/9/2005  5:40 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by simrud:

I disagree, I think more HS payers who got picked in the 1st round became a success.

Lets see: Kobe, Garnett, Amare, Lebron, Tmac, JOneal, vs Wagner and Kwame?

Jure is still out on Curry, Chandler, and all last year's pick. Even though JR Smith, Josh Smith, are both doing well. But its too early to tell.

Feel free to add to the list on both sides, to make the discussion more complete.

Wagner played college ball

So so far we..

ballers:
KG
Kobe
Mcgrady
Amare
Jermaine
Lebron
Jefferson
Curry
Chandler
Kwame
JR Smith
Josh Smith
Miles
Outlaw
Telfair

VS

Busts:
Bender
Diop
Woods

hmmmmm rather lopsided. This was a great idea Simrud!

Maybe now people will understand what we mean by drafting players with high ceilings. players that are overlooked every year for 7ft safe picks.

Keep it coming HS player bashers! this is fun LOL!

First of all where is Leon Smith? lol Where is Kwame Brown, Deshawn Stevenson?

Also, take half of those players off of your list. The jury is still out on them.

And let's not loose sight of the fact that you think Green and Bynum will be hall of fame type of players because that's all you're comparing them to. So also take "serviceable" players off of the list. You've already agreed that Frye will be serviceable so that's not even a smart comparison. We're talking about highschool players who have NOT turned out to be Amare, LeBron, KG and McGrady. In case you haven't notice these guys are ALLSTARS. Half the people on your list are not even close to worthy of allstar honors.
Silverfuel
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7/9/2005  5:42 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

but many of those 18yr olds will see increased playing time and develop into good players. Not allstars but not busts like many suggested either
I bet you money that Channing Frye will be better than those guys. I would infact take a chance on Channing Frye over even the injury prone Tyson Chandler. Dude honestly, your point might be a good one but your way of getting it across totally blows. Every argument has holes in it.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
bigpimpin
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7/9/2005  5:48 PM
simrud suffers from bi-polar disease
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
gunsnewing
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7/9/2005  5:57 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by gunsnewing:

but many of those 18yr olds will see increased playing time and develop into good players. Not allstars but not busts like many suggested either
I bet you money that Channing Frye will be better than those guys. I would infact take a chance on Channing Frye over even the injury prone Tyson Chandler. Dude honestly, your point might be a good one but your way of getting it across totally blows. Every argument has holes in it.

of course and Channing Frye has many holes. It just so happens that you're only looking for the holes in my arguement
simrud
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7/9/2005  6:23 PM
by bigpimpin:
simrud suffers from bi-polar disease

Now, just wondering Martin, why is he allowed to say sh@it like that and I arent?
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Knicksfan
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7/9/2005  6:39 PM
Ok people, if you love Bynum, Green and everyone else and hate so much Isiah's picks, why don't you then become fans of their respective teams?

Just some seasons ago we had a draft where we picked up an undersized PF with the last name Wright, I believe. With out other pick we picked a 7 footer with the last name Chenowisk or something like that. Guess where are those players now? That was a wasted draft.

Green may turn out to be a great player like McGrady, or a bust like another so called next McGrady, Q. Woods. Bynum could turn out to be the next great C as Shaq, or the next bust C as Diop. Anyway, they have their respective teams. We drafted a very talented C in Frye, a dynamo PG in Nate, and an athletic and talented F in Lee. Those are solid players that will likely stick around and become solid players. As with the players mentioned above, these players can be great ones if they want to and work hard, no matter how the so-called experts give them a high or a low ceeling.

After always asking for rebuilding and youth movement, why not be positive for a change and enjoy as we have many, many young players now? Why not root for the best of the team, and that is these new players? If you don't want to, there are always 29 teams to chiose from...
Knicks_Fan
Pharzeone
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7/9/2005  6:48 PM
Ebi, that's his name. What's up with him and where is he on that list of ballers vs. bust. btw, that's a killer name.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TheloniusMonk
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7/9/2005  7:13 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Ebi, that's his name. What's up with him and where is he on that list of ballers vs. bust. btw, that's a killer name.

WOW! I totally forgot about him.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Silverfuel
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7/9/2005  9:28 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

of course and Channing Frye has many holes. It just so happens that you're only looking for the holes in my arguement
Of course he has holes, he is a rookie. I dont have to look for holes in your argument, your's barely qualifies as an argument. I pointed out the hypocrisy already. You worry about what your saying you disconnected bastard.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
simrud
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7/9/2005  9:42 PM
I like the draft overall, I think Nate and Lee were fine picks.

I just like Green and Bynum over Frye.

Thats all there is to it, same for Guns I think.

The amount of backlash for likin another pick is retarded. Did I have to like Anderson, Eisly, Spoon and Mooch, and now TT and Penny cause they are on the team?

I rooted for them when they played for us. But I hate them as players. Don't I mean I need to root for another team. This talk about if you don't like or don't like that go root for another team is plain dumb.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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