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Which ex-Knick does Frye remind you of most?
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gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  10:36 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Guns, you still haven't given any indication that you know ANYTHING about these guys' games who you like so much.

I gave plenty of reasons why we should draft one of those guys before the draft. I'm not going to write a book on each player again. Its too late, they aren't Knicks Frye is.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/07/2005 22:40:44]
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gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  10:39 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I remember those tweener shots at Wallace quite well. Remember he didn't blossom until he got in Portland. I don't why Guns is on Frye's case so bad because his guy Splitter would have been far worst than Freddy Weiss. That is if he had the b#lls to stay in the draft at least one year. I guess he knows better.

my guy Splitter? What in the world are you talking about my friend? Splitter is in Europe!

what kind of screens does Spiltter set? Does he get discouraged after missed shots? Does he disappear? Is he left or right handed? Can he rebound in traffic with two hands? I need some facts here.

Splitter didn't enter the draft this year. he chose to play in Europe for another year which was a wise choice since he's only 20 and finally started playing well for Tau in the playoffs.

Even if Splitter had entered the draft i would've still taken Bynum, green, granger and graham over him

I was as big on Graham as anyone, and after we threw down the Q trade there was ABSOLTELY, POSITIVELY, NO reason to draft a SG/SF. None, which ruled out each and every swingman on the board. Honestly, at first I absolutely hated the Frye pick I was on the phone with my dad praying "please don't pick Frye". But you know what, I don't think there is someone Zeke could have picked that would have made me as comfortable now as I am with taking Frye. He was the absolute best option for this team after the trade went down. I don't know how at least that point can be argued.

simple.. trade jamal crawford or Marbury for a need. like a frontcourt player. You have to draft the best player available otherwise people are going to look back and wonder why the hell you drafted Tony Battie 5th overall over so many future allstars

It takes 2 to tango, bro. So we draft BPA and deal from a position of what? Strength? Or is it really a position of weakness knowing that we now HAVE to get rid of either the Star guard that Zeke brought in here tio be the face of the Franchise (meaning we don't get value for him) or dealing the guy that Zeke worked for 2 months to get here gave him his vote as a future STAR, went out of his way to recruit this guy, even signed a crappy deal with Baker JUST TO GET THIS GUY here....for whom, BTW, we wouldn't get equal value. That doesn't seem like a position of strength to me.

yes I'd rather do that then add a low-ceiling player to this incredibly flawed team then acquire a bigman through trade or MLE which we're trying to do anyway
TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  10:40 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Guns, you still haven't given any indication that you know ANYTHING about these guys' games who you like so much.

I gave plenty of reasons why we should draft one of those guys. I'm not going to write a book on each player again. Its too late, they aren't Knicks Frye is.

I have NEVER BUT NEVER BUT NEVER BUT NEVER heard you break down these guys names. All you said was you've never seen them play and you just co-signed everything Briggs said. You speak passionately against Frye and so passionately in favor of other players and you have never ever ever broken down anything about their games besides maybe clips. My question to you would be what in the world is your opinion based on? I'm just interested in knowing lol. I've seen some of those guys play and I remember you saying you hadn't.

You've still given no indication that you know anything about their games at all.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
joec32033
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7/7/2005  10:47 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by joec32033:



It takes 2 to tango, bro. So we draft BPA and deal from a position of what? Strength? Or is it really a position of weakness knowing that we now HAVE to get rid of either the Star guard that Zeke brought in here tio be the face of the Franchise (meaning we don't get value for him) or dealing the guy that Zeke worked for 2 months to get here gave him his vote as a future STAR, went out of his way to recruit this guy, even signed a crappy deal with Baker JUST TO GET THIS GUY here....for whom, BTW, we wouldn't get equal value. That doesn't seem like a position of strength to me.

yes I'd rather do that then add a low-ceiling player to this incredibly flawed team then acquire a bigman through trade or MLE which we're trying to do anyway

You are tossing judgements around on Frye like it is confetti! Low ceiling is someone like a Sean May. Artest was supposed to be low ceiling. Mike Redd and Gilbert Arenas were supposed to be low ceiling. Korleone Young had a pretty high ceiling, though. Point is you are focusing so much on Frye's negatives you are blind to the positives. This kid's game is a hell of alot like Rasheed when he came out of college. Neither was extremely explosive and both are "jack of all trades master of none" type of players. I would be EXTREMELY happy to get a Rasheed Wallace-ish game out of Frye. Does Bynum or Green have more "potential" sure. So does Kwame. But if my floor with Frye is someone like a poor man's Camby with a jumper and my floor with Bynum is Oliver Miller and my floor with Green is Harold Miner, I take Frye.

[Edited by - joec32033 on 07/07/2005 22:48:17]
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Pharzeone
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7/7/2005  10:56 PM
I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.
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joec32033
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7/7/2005  10:57 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

That is a truly awesome point
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gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  11:05 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Guns, you still haven't given any indication that you know ANYTHING about these guys' games who you like so much.

I gave plenty of reasons why we should draft one of those guys. I'm not going to write a book on each player again. Its too late, they aren't Knicks Frye is.

I have NEVER BUT NEVER BUT NEVER BUT NEVER heard you break down these guys names. All you said was you've never seen them play and you just co-signed everything Briggs said. You speak passionately against Frye and so passionately in favor of other players and you have never ever ever broken down anything about their games besides maybe clips. My question to you would be what in the world is your opinion based on? I'm just interested in knowing lol. I've seen some of those guys play and I remember you saying you hadn't.

You've still given no indication that you know anything about their games at all.


well lets see...take Bynum for example. Look at my nickname "gunsnewing" my favorite current player, Tim Duncan. I have a great deal of admiration for top flight Centers. I've stated countless time before that if you want one of them you better win no more than 20games in a season where a top flight Center like Bogut is available. Now there are some exceptions like Nene outplaying Duncan in the olympics. Nene was the guy I wanted in 2002 not Wilcox. He had the body and strength and raw skills to be an nba Center. Therefore I would've loved to have him at pick 7.

Frye on the other hand is not as clear cut a Center. And if we are talking about PFs I would've drafted Ike Diogu.

I wanted to take the gamble on Bynum and obviously the Lakers & Jim Calhoun felt the same way. A 17yr old who still has to work on turning baby fat into muscle but certainly has the body to do it. And yes he needs to learn how to defend nba MEN inside which is not an easy task for any teenage bigman. He has to learn where to be on the court at given times. All these rookie mistakes are easily correctable. If we had drafted Bynum his skills would've led to a much greater payoff.

Whereas Frye's softness and lack of strength and preference of playing outside over inside and inconsistent career in which one game he plays decently then doesn't show up the nex,t which countless Arizona fans hated him for makes him a low ceiling player.

Green well many think he's going to be a special player but we didn't draft him at 8 for the same reason we didn't draft Bynum. Isiah is pressured to win now therefore he went with the safe pick, the supposably "nba ready" Frye. Which means no one expects Frye to develop into a top flight bigman but instead be a piece on a flawed perimeter team. Now we're hearing that we need another 7footer. oh well thats another story..

Granger is going to be a very good player. He can do it all score, defend & block shots! Obvisously Donnie Walsh who is regarded as one of the best GMs and talent evaluators liked the kid enough to steal him at 17.

Graham is just a beast defensively and a heck of an athlete and we really would've benefited from him balancing the starting lineup with great defense and toughness. Over Ariza who is still years away and TT who is as good as gone. Watching Graham and Nate together would've been unreal!

Now yes we would've had a whole at Center, then again we would've drafted Blatche at 30 but in the meantime while Blatche developed we have TT, Penny, Sweetney Marbury & Crawford to trade for frontcourt help. Much bigger help than wasting the 8th overall pick on Frye.
OngBok
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7/7/2005  11:09 PM
I realize i'm the new guy so please feel free to enlighten me on why supposed to be NEW YORK KNICK fans are sooooooo NEGATIVE about them.
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  11:15 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but Mcgrady had problems playing against stronger players too. At 18 you got plenty of time to work on getting stronger like McGrady did. Just look at Green's highlights and you can see he's gonna be special. His flaws are attitude and lack of size. Too mean those are trivial. The bottomline he can shoot lights out and jump out of the gym. Not many guys can do both. The guys who can't go on to become busts like Darius Miles who can't shoot if his life depended on it
TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  11:16 PM
Once again Guns, with the exception of Granger you said absolutely NOTHING about these players GAMES. All you talked about was their bodies. Let's talk about Diop's body. Let's talk about Charles Smith's body. It makes no sense to talk about a players body alone and know NOTHING about his game whatsoever. This is my point. You have yet to say anything about these players games and yet you are so high on them. So you mean to tell me if you were a GM you would draft guys based on body type? Wow, you would've gambled on a Tractor Trailer and would have missed out on a Rip Hamilton or a Taysaun Prince. You would have looked right passed the right Miller (Reggie) and took a gamble on the wrong Miller (Oliver). How does one break down players based on body? Ike Auston had a great body for a big man.
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joec32033
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7/7/2005  11:17 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but Mcgrady had problems playing against stronger players too. At 18 you got plenty of time to work on getting stronger like McGrady did. Just look at Green's highlights and you can see he's gonna be special. His flaws are attitude and lack of size. Too mean those are trivial. The bottomline he can shoot lights out and jump out of the gym. Not many guys can do both. The guys who can't go on to become busts like Darius Miles who can't shoot if his life depended on it

Wasn't JR Rider's ONLY problem his attitude??
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gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  11:18 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but why did 8 teams pass on a player of the calibur of Mcgrady,, Amare, Jermaine, Outlaw & Kobe?
TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  11:19 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but Mcgrady had problems playing against stronger players too. At 18 you got plenty of time to work on getting stronger like McGrady did. Just look at Green's highlights and you can see he's gonna be special. His flaws are attitude and lack of size. Too mean those are trivial. The bottomline he can shoot lights out and jump out of the gym. Not many guys can do both. The guys who can't go on to become busts like Darius Miles who can't shoot if his life depended on it

Did you see Deshaun Stevenson's highschool high lights? Awesome! I also remember those Johnathan Bender highlights with his throwing it down over everyone in sight.

Point is, what McGrady has is special. Many GMs have said that this Green kid has very few basketball smarts and thinks it's gonna be his athleticism that will get him through. McGrady was a straight up student of the game.

And again, how can you compare Green to McGrady when you haven't even really seen Green?
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TheloniusMonk
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7/7/2005  11:20 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but why did 8 teams pass on a player of the calibur of Mcgrady,, Amare, Jermaine, Outlaw & Kobe?

Outlaw's not a star!
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  11:24 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Once again Guns, with the exception of Granger you said absolutely NOTHING about these players GAMES. All you talked about was their bodies. Let's talk about Diop's body. Let's talk about Charles Smith's body. It makes no sense to talk about a players body alone and know NOTHING about his game whatsoever. This is my point. You have yet to say anything about these players games and yet you are so high on them. So you mean to tell me if you were a GM you would draft guys based on body type? Wow, you would've gambled on a Tractor Trailer and would have missed out on a Rip Hamilton or a Taysaun Prince. You would have looked right passed the right Miller (Reggie) and took a gamble on the wrong Miller (Oliver). How does one break down players based on body? Ike Auston had a great body for a big man.

there's a lot more to it then looking at someone's body! like understanding what it takes to put together a successful playoff team and not a 30win and 1st round exit team. In order to win in the playoffs you either need a dominant bigman, Lakers, Spurs, Miami,Houston, Knicks(w/Ewing) etc or a tough frontcourt like the new and old Pistons and the Knicks for that matter or at the very least a superstar wing player with the ability to improve drastically by adding a frontcourt player.

You won't win in the playoffs with a poor shooting and defending backcourt and a weak frontline!
joec32033
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7/7/2005  11:24 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but why did 8 teams pass on a player of the calibur of Mcgrady,, Amare, Jermaine, Outlaw & Kobe?

Outlaw's not a star!

BUT HE SCORED 32 IN A SUMMER LEAGUE GAME ONCE!!!!!!!!
~You can't run from who you are.~
gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  11:27 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but why did 8 teams pass on a player of the calibur of Mcgrady,, Amare, Jermaine, Outlaw & Kobe?

Outlaw's not a star!

You are really getting on my nerves now. I think I'll just ignore you from now on. Hope you do the same. Its always the best way to go about it.

I don't know how long you've been here and seen me post. You know nothing about me outside of this whole draft situation. I just threw Outlaw in there because countless teams passed on him.
gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  11:29 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but why did 8 teams pass on a player of the calibur of Mcgrady,, Amare, Jermaine, Outlaw & Kobe?

Outlaw's not a star!

BUT HE SCORED 32 IN A SUMMER LEAGUE GAME ONCE!!!!!!!!

way to pick out the only questionable player i listed. doesn't explain the reaon why so many teams passed on Mcgrady, Amare, Jermaine & Kobe
joec32033
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7/7/2005  11:29 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but why did 8 teams pass on a player of the calibur of Mcgrady,, Amare, Jermaine, Outlaw & Kobe?

Outlaw's not a star!

You are really getting on my nerves now. I think I'll just ignore you from now on. Hope you do the same. Its always the best way to go about it.

I don't know how long you've been here and seen me post. You know nothing about me outside of this whole draft situation. I just threw Outlaw in there because countless teams passed on him.

Guns I see where you are coming from but Outlaw hasn't accomplished anything at all yet to warrant these teams to NOT pass on him...I mean grouping him in with the guys you did is a little strong.
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gunsnewing
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7/7/2005  11:32 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I questioned whether Bynum has more potential than Frye. I heard that he is interesting because he basically a big kid. I mean so was Yinka Dare, and Diop but no one wants to think of these guys when mentioning Bynum's potential. I must admit I like Green but you can't even count the guys with that "potential" have come and gone. From what is now coming out, he had trouble playing against stronger players. If he was a no brainer than he doesn't get past pick 5. The Raptors past on him twice, as well as the Bobcats. I find that more interesting than the Knicks passing on him.

yeah but Mcgrady had problems playing against stronger players too. At 18 you got plenty of time to work on getting stronger like McGrady did. Just look at Green's highlights and you can see he's gonna be special. His flaws are attitude and lack of size. Too mean those are trivial. The bottomline he can shoot lights out and jump out of the gym. Not many guys can do both. The guys who can't go on to become busts like Darius Miles who can't shoot if his life depended on it

Did you see Deshaun Stevenson's highschool high lights? Awesome! I also remember those Johnathan Bender highlights with his throwing it down over everyone in sight.

Point is, what McGrady has is special. Many GMs have said that this Green kid has very few basketball smarts and thinks it's gonna be his athleticism that will get him through. McGrady was a straight up student of the game.

And again, how can you compare Green to McGrady when you haven't even really seen Green?

its easy to look back now and say what Mcgrady has is special. The draft is about projection. Obvisiouly Isiah loved Green as he did all he could to move up to get him and had to settle for Nate instead which isn't bad by any means.
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