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Don't release houston.... that's right u heard me
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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6/27/2005  12:35 PM
Referring to the point made in the other Allan thread:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Houston has gotta go. It's been too long dealing with his softee "Ow, my knee!" sob stories. 40M off the lux tax? An open roster spot for someone with both the nuts AND the knees to step up to the challenge? This one's a no-brainer.

It's about damn time.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
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Silverfuel
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6/27/2005  12:36 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

An open roster spot for someone with both the nuts AND the knees to step up to the challenge?
ROFLMAO
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OldFan
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6/27/2005  12:44 PM
Posted by CTKnicksfan:

I'll miss Allan. He was never great, but was very good for a long time. I was hoping he would retire and walk away with some dignity. but it looks like he's going to force the Knicks' hand in cutting him. A shame, but as fish said it is business. 40mm matters alot to the bottom line, especially with empty arenas at playoff time.

You're right it's business - so why should Houston walk away from 40mil - so you'll think he has dignity?
CTKnicksfan
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6/27/2005  12:44 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by CTKnicksfan:

If you really want to keep him that badly, cut him then resign him for the vet's minimum.

now that's freakishly interesting. I wonder if there is a provision that says you can't sign your own cut player.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#53

Now, I dont know about this source, just something I found on google. There's a lot of other stuff about the salary cap and the CBA there, mostly all out of date now with the new CBA. Here's the part on waivers:

If no team claims a waived player, he is said to have "cleared waivers." The player may sign with the team of his choice at that point. The player's new team only pays the pro-rated minimum salary to the player. The player's original team continues to pay the balance of the player's salary. For this reason, few players are actually claimed while on waivers.

I don't see anything that says we can't resign him. Maybe the rules for the special exception are different? Maybe this was changed in the new CBA? Who knows? Even if we could resign him, I don't think that's the direction IT wants to go.
CTKnicksfan
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6/27/2005  12:47 PM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by CTKnicksfan:

I'll miss Allan. He was never great, but was very good for a long time. I was hoping he would retire and walk away with some dignity. but it looks like he's going to force the Knicks' hand in cutting him. A shame, but as fish said it is business. 40mm matters alot to the bottom line, especially with empty arenas at playoff time.

You're right it's business - so why should Houston walk away from 40mil - so you'll think he has dignity?

Houston still gets paid his full salary, even if he retires. He should just admit to himself that he can't come back and play at that level. Look at what happened with LJ. He could have stuck around to sit on the bench is street clothes, or play limited minutes, but chose to retire. Plus, if he retired, the Knicks could use the one time exception on someone else (Mo Taylor anyone?) and save even more money.
eViL
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6/27/2005  12:47 PM
I've seen this question asked before, but I'm not sure I saw the answer: Has the luxury tax ever actually kicked in? If not, we don't save anything by cutting him. Though, at this stage, I'd probably still prefer a roster spot.
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fishmike
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6/27/2005  12:52 PM
Posted by roblackman:

Your post is irretrievably convoluted and confused.
sorry... lets try again.
Cut Houston pay $40mm
keep Houston pay $80mm

Which makes more sense from a business standpoint?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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6/27/2005  12:56 PM
Posted by roblackman:

I think we all agree that if Houston gets anywhere near what he used to be then he is worth keeping but if the only shots he gets are in his arthritic knee then we should cut him and bring in another player. We'll see what happens! Later.
thats where your wrong. The Mavs may very well waive Finley, who's still playing at a very high level. These are business decisions. If Houston were healthy and scoring $20ppg he might still get waived. Especially if the GM feels that $40mm you save can be better spent.

As it stands your talking about a guy with a progressive condition. Arthritis doesn't get better, trust me I know.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
daddynel
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6/27/2005  12:56 PM
Posted by CTKnicksfan:
Posted by daddynel:
Posted by CTKnicksfan:

Whether or not his salary stays on the cap is irrelevant. Even if the provision was written that the $$ would come completely off the cap, it wouldn't really matter anyway, we wont be under the cap anyway.

Keep him or cut him, Allan still gets his $40mm from the Knicks. But cutting him saves $40mm that would go to the league in luxury tax. We've already established that we don't expect him to return to form, & want him primarily as a vet shooter of the bench, 10-15 minutes a game type. Is that worth 40mm??!! Of course not.

If you really want to keep him that badly, cut him then resign him for the vet's minimum.
any other team can resign him, but us.

I always thought once a guy cleared waivers he was free to sign with any team. but maybe I'm wrong.
your right. but w/this there is a clause that says any team can sign that player but the one that waived him.
CTKnicksfan
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6/27/2005  1:02 PM

[/quote]

I always thought once a guy cleared waivers he was free to sign with any team. but maybe I'm wrong.
[/quote]your right. but w/this there is a clause that says any team can sign that player but the one that waived him.
[/quote]

OK, so it is a special rule with the luxury tax exception? I guess that makes sense.
NYKBocker
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6/27/2005  1:02 PM
From a business standpoint, I agree that Allan is a goner.

As a fan, well, cutting him doesn't really do anything for the team. His salary is still counted against the cap. You say a roster spot. For what? The scrub in the IR? If Zeke keeps him he can be another asset that Zeke can claim in a year for his expiring contract. That will be Allan and Mo T 2 years from now. You can then go after pseudo-Stars from other teams making a ton of money that has worn out their wlecome from the other team. By then Jerry Colangelo would be ready to dump Shawn Marion's contract for an expiring one so ha can sign Amare for the MAX. We would need to rebuild the Suns by then.
Redsoxrule
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6/27/2005  1:17 PM
It's a no-brainer. Cut the sorry b#tch and never look back.
We will NEVER win with Marbury as our cameo guy.
Elite
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6/27/2005  1:28 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

From a business standpoint, I agree that Allan is a goner.

As a fan, well, cutting him doesn't really do anything for the team. His salary is still counted against the cap. You say a roster spot. For what? The scrub in the IR? If Zeke keeps him he can be another asset that Zeke can claim in a year for his expiring contract. That will be Allan and Mo T 2 years from now. You can then go after pseudo-Stars from other teams making a ton of money that has worn out their wlecome from the other team. By then Jerry Colangelo would be ready to dump Shawn Marion's contract for an expiring one so ha can sign Amare for the MAX. We would need to rebuild the Suns by then.



this guy is right on, i agree
fishmike
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6/27/2005  1:36 PM
watching Dolan save money isnt exciting. But what if Isiah can actually use some of the $40mm that gets saved? What if that allows him to overpay and offer the Griz $3mm and pick 54 for the Griz pick 19 and then draft McCants? Who would you rather ha ve? A gimpy Houston or McCants locked up under a rookie deal for 4 years?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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6/27/2005  1:45 PM
Posted by fishmike:

watching Dolan save money isnt exciting. But what if Isiah can actually use some of the $40mm that gets saved? What if that allows him to overpay and offer the Griz $3mm and pick 54 for the Griz pick 19 and then draft McCants? Who would you rather ha ve? A gimpy Houston or McCants locked up under a rookie deal for 4 years?

$3M is loose change in todays NBA. Well, at least for the Knicks. Until Dolan shows any sign of being Donald Sterling, I am still going to say that money is not a concern for him.

The contract I can see the Knicks cutting because of the new CBA is Penny's contract. Having 2 monster expiring contracts would be hard to use. I can see TT being moved because he still has some value as a player and not just the contract. Cutting Penny would save Dolan some money as well.
Silverfuel
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6/27/2005  1:52 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

You say a roster spot. For what? The scrub in the IR?
It doesnt have to be a scrub on IR. It could be someone we pick up. I can trust Isiah with that more than I can trust Houston's knees with a comeback.
If Zeke keeps him he can be another asset that Zeke can claim in a year for his expiring contract.
Ok, so want to waste 2 years and gamble on Houston's knees just for the expiring contract? I would rather spend 2 years watching someone try to develop into a star. There is a basic difference in philosophy and I cannot see there being an agreement. I understand your point though.
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roblackman
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6/27/2005  2:13 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by roblackman:

Your post is irretrievably convoluted and confused.
sorry... lets try again.
Cut Houston pay $40mm
keep Houston pay $80mm

Which makes more sense from a business standpoint?

We don't pay 80 million to keep Houston, that's where you are wrong.
And the reply is...a post that makes sense (still waiting)
Silverfuel
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6/27/2005  2:24 PM
Posted by roblackman:

We don't pay 80 million to keep Houston, that's where you are wrong.
please back this up with reasons etc?
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Pharzeone
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6/27/2005  3:13 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by diderotn:

Why don't he just come back and play for free???
Thats not fair bro. He was offered the money, he didnt steal it. He paid for a bad product but they knew what they were doing. This isnt charity.
Hakeem did it for the Rockets against the NBA Player's Association warnings. He got more money but a longer deal which was more cap friendly.
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fishmike
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6/27/2005  3:23 PM
Posted by roblackman:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by roblackman:

Your post is irretrievably convoluted and confused.
sorry... lets try again.
Cut Houston pay $40mm
keep Houston pay $80mm

Which makes more sense from a business standpoint?

We don't pay 80 million to keep Houston, that's where you are wrong.
we do if the luxury tax hits. Even if it only hits one year the $20mm is probably worth it.

what was your point again?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Don't release houston.... that's right u heard me
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