Chandler wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:IND's full court defense was pretty delibatating. I wonder, why cant we ever do the same?

Our two best players suck at D but we’re hunted down and bused. Their best player sucks at D but we gave him a free pass and had JB try and advance the ball against their best defenders. Go figure

Haliburton says hi from ECF game 6
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2025/05/31/0042400306/295/55f8d734-615b-b324-746a-538d9a599149_1280x720.mp4

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Fred on the podcast said he was not happy with the decision to drop the article right after the loss. He said it was written well before that. Don't think the writers have any control over that.

If you recall when OG and KAT got into a dust up on the sideline, KAT simply turned his head and didn't respond, Brunson kind of seemed to have OG's back and layed into him a bit.

I can definitely see where KAT would do things wrong and when called out on it basically have no explanation for it. That seems totally plausible and I'm sure very frustrating. I think we've all dealt with people like that, where you are trying to help them with something and they just can't be helped.

I got the unspoken (or maybe it was mentioned) idea that perhaps some of OG/Mikal's frustrations and maybe even performance was hindered too. You can only be so beastly on PnR defense and whatnot when you C is doing whacy ****. You give up after a while or do something out of character over the long haul.

It was also interesting to hear how it was mentioned that OG flourished when Brunson was out.

Thibs basically paired OG with KAT almost all season and definitely in the playoffs. Your best recovery/help defender out with your least predictable defender. If OG knows the assignment and he's constantly trying to make up for a guy who's missing his, you can understand the frustration. Fred also saying OG less locked in when he went 4-5 possessions in a row with no offensive touches. That was something the organization took note of. Maybe Jalen passed it to OG in Game 1 because he's been asked specifically to look for OG. Who knows.

To me this isn't team controversy as much as its an explanation for the inconsistency that we all kind intuitively thought was the case. Again I spin it as a positive - its not a chemistry/behavior/team relation thing. Coaching+Player has to get get on the same page...not guaranteed to happen, but remember the guy got here in September and defense was already a known weakness. Some patience is warranted and could yield better results.

I still hold on to the fact that Leon was trying to acquire for KAT for 3 years with Thibs as the Head Coach. These guys both know KAT well and have a belief in what they think he is capable of. I can't imagine they would acquire him without believing they could get him turned around. They already got his rebounding back up. Now lets see how they can create a scheme that he can work in defensively. KAT is high character guy who wants to win games. He does some stupid stuff, but I truly believe he wants to win and get better.

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Fred on the podcast said he was not happy with the decision to drop the article right after the loss. He said it was written well before that. Don't think the writers have any control over that.

If you recall when OG and KAT got into a dust up on the sideline, KAT simply turned his head and didn't respond, Brunson kind of seemed to have OG's back and layed into him a bit.

I can definitely see where KAT would do things wrong and when called out on it basically have no explanation for it. That seems totally plausible and I'm sure very frustrating. I think we've all dealt with people like that, where you are trying to help them with something and they just can't be helped.

I got the unspoken (or maybe it was mentioned) idea that perhaps some of OG/Mikal's frustrations and maybe even performance was hindered too. You can only be so beastly on PnR defense and whatnot when you C is doing whacy ****. You give up after a while or do something out of character over the long haul.

It was also interesting to hear how it was mentioned that OG flourished when Brunson was out.

I think OG has always had a little bit of gripe in him towards the Brunson offense. This is going back awhile where there's been rumblings around it. I believe last year he had a comment about not being able to score if he doesn't get touches. I believe there was rumors he was unhappy about the Mikal move until he was reassured that the team very much saw Mikal as a compliment to OG and not a replacement. And then the thinly veiled Josh Hart comment about egos early in the season seemed to only fit for OG. But I think his discontent has always remained at a healthy level, he and Brunson seem to have a very good on court relationship, OG got his payday, and he seems willing to not go overboard with his gripe on touches.

I personally never really tied his defensive effort to his touches, to me it seems any fall off on his D this year was a result of having no anchor behind him most of the year, and playing full time 4 instead of full time 3, versus him not giving the same effort on D night to night based on touches.

OG will get all the touches he wants if he fixes his balance and dribbling. He shows signs of being a 2nd option type of scorer, but his fumbleitis is next level. There is a world that if he's now consistently healthy and can cut the turnovers that he could take on quite a bit of the scoring load. He is physically imposing and his step back and off the dribble shooting has improved.

DLeethal wrote:

VDesai wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Fred on the podcast said he was not happy with the decision to drop the article right after the loss. He said it was written well before that. Don't think the writers have any control over that.

If you recall when OG and KAT got into a dust up on the sideline, KAT simply turned his head and didn't respond, Brunson kind of seemed to have OG's back and layed into him a bit.

I can definitely see where KAT would do things wrong and when called out on it basically have no explanation for it. That seems totally plausible and I'm sure very frustrating. I think we've all dealt with people like that, where you are trying to help them with something and they just can't be helped.

I got the unspoken (or maybe it was mentioned) idea that perhaps some of OG/Mikal's frustrations and maybe even performance was hindered too. You can only be so beastly on PnR defense and whatnot when you C is doing whacy ****. You give up after a while or do something out of character over the long haul.

It was also interesting to hear how it was mentioned that OG flourished when Brunson was out.

I think OG has always had a little bit of gripe in him towards the Brunson offense. This is going back awhile where there's been rumblings around it. I believe last year he had a comment about not being able to score if he doesn't get touches. I believe there was rumors he was unhappy about the Mikal move until he was reassured that the team very much saw Mikal as a compliment to OG and not a replacement. And then the thinly veiled Josh Hart comment about egos early in the season seemed to only fit for OG. But I think his discontent has always remained at a healthy level, he and Brunson seem to have a very good on court relationship, OG got his payday, and he seems willing to not go overboard with his gripe on touches.

I personally never really tied his defensive effort to his touches, to me it seems any fall off on his D this year was a result of having no anchor behind him most of the year, and playing full time 4 instead of full time 3, versus him not giving the same effort on D night to night based on touches.

OG will get all the touches he wants if he fixes his balance and dribbling. He shows signs of being a 2nd option type of scorer, but his fumbleitis is next level. There is a world that if he's now consistently healthy and can cut the turnovers that he could take on quite a bit of the scoring load. He is physically imposing and his step back and off the dribble shooting has improved.

I think OG and Mikal both can up their scoring load and maintain their efficiency. That's why I'm not 100% against trading KAT and not necessarily getting back a bonafide #2.

I'm in this boat. If it's Durant you are swapping for KAT, Mikal, OG and even Mitch get easy baskets all over the place. The ball handling is exactly what the Knicks need next to Jalen too.

SergioNYK wrote:We should've been getting ready to make the NBA Finals after a game seven win tonight. I'll never get over the embarrassing game one choke and it feels like we'll never get this close again.

My wife told me Saturday Morning she got me a Father's Day present...my anxiety level literally went to 1000 as I knew she'd only be telling me this early for 1 reason. Despite not liking basketball at all she spent some ungodly sum to get me a ticket to Gm 7 because she knows how much it means to me. Made me even more nervous on Game day and feeling a bit more sad than I did this weekend today knowing I'd have been prepping to go. Its dissapointing for sure. You have to win a lot of game to get to this point. Watching the game 1 choke away was the most brutal sports fan experience of my life. Yanks obviously gave away a 3-0 lead, Giants have blown a few playoff games in spectacular fashion, Knicks take the cake with their history....but watching that unfold the way it did is hard to put into words. Losing there was a tonesetter...they really needed to bounce back immediately in game 2. Going down 0-2 at home and losing in that fashion was too deep of a hole.

jskinny35 wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Fred on the podcast said he was not happy with the decision to drop the article right after the loss. He said it was written well before that. Don't think the writers have any control over that.

If you recall when OG and KAT got into a dust up on the sideline, KAT simply turned his head and didn't respond, Brunson kind of seemed to have OG's back and layed into him a bit.

I can definitely see where KAT would do things wrong and when called out on it basically have no explanation for it. That seems totally plausible and I'm sure very frustrating. I think we've all dealt with people like that, where you are trying to help them with something and they just can't be helped.

I got the unspoken (or maybe it was mentioned) idea that perhaps some of OG/Mikal's frustrations and maybe even performance was hindered too. You can only be so beastly on PnR defense and whatnot when you C is doing whacy ****. You give up after a while or do something out of character over the long haul.

It was also interesting to hear how it was mentioned that OG flourished when Brunson was out.

I think OG has always had a little bit of gripe in him towards the Brunson offense. This is going back awhile where there's been rumblings around it. I believe last year he had a comment about not being able to score if he doesn't get touches. I believe there was rumors he was unhappy about the Mikal move until he was reassured that the team very much saw Mikal as a compliment to OG and not a replacement. And then the thinly veiled Josh Hart comment about egos early in the season seemed to only fit for OG. But I think his discontent has always remained at a healthy level, he and Brunson seem to have a very good on court relationship, OG got his payday, and he seems willing to not go overboard with his gripe on touches.

I personally never really tied his defensive effort to his touches, to me it seems any fall off on his D this year was a result of having no anchor behind him most of the year, and playing full time 4 instead of full time 3, versus him not giving the same effort on D night to night based on touches.

I think OG is our most well rounded player and he deserves more touches as our offense is super ISO heavy and OG usually gets the scraps. Now OG also has to show more offensive punch on a consistent basis which has always been his challenge. I think it starts with Thibs/coach shifting away from the ball pounding approach and encouraging more ball movement with Brunson. Yes we need more outside shooters but last season we moved the ball better and the communication all the way around seemed more consistent IMO.

OG is a tremendous cutter. We actually had so much cutting action early in the season with KAT carving teams up with passes from the top of the key like Joakim Noah.

The regression of the Knicks early offense needs to be studied. I don’t think it was as simple as teams putting smalls on KAT and sagging off Hart. The whole offense shifted back to ‘21-24 offense

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

VDesai wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Fred on the podcast said he was not happy with the decision to drop the article right after the loss. He said it was written well before that. Don't think the writers have any control over that.

If you recall when OG and KAT got into a dust up on the sideline, KAT simply turned his head and didn't respond, Brunson kind of seemed to have OG's back and layed into him a bit.

I can definitely see where KAT would do things wrong and when called out on it basically have no explanation for it. That seems totally plausible and I'm sure very frustrating. I think we've all dealt with people like that, where you are trying to help them with something and they just can't be helped.

I got the unspoken (or maybe it was mentioned) idea that perhaps some of OG/Mikal's frustrations and maybe even performance was hindered too. You can only be so beastly on PnR defense and whatnot when you C is doing whacy ****. You give up after a while or do something out of character over the long haul.

It was also interesting to hear how it was mentioned that OG flourished when Brunson was out.

I think OG has always had a little bit of gripe in him towards the Brunson offense. This is going back awhile where there's been rumblings around it. I believe last year he had a comment about not being able to score if he doesn't get touches. I believe there was rumors he was unhappy about the Mikal move until he was reassured that the team very much saw Mikal as a compliment to OG and not a replacement. And then the thinly veiled Josh Hart comment about egos early in the season seemed to only fit for OG. But I think his discontent has always remained at a healthy level, he and Brunson seem to have a very good on court relationship, OG got his payday, and he seems willing to not go overboard with his gripe on touches.

I personally never really tied his defensive effort to his touches, to me it seems any fall off on his D this year was a result of having no anchor behind him most of the year, and playing full time 4 instead of full time 3, versus him not giving the same effort on D night to night based on touches.

OG will get all the touches he wants if he fixes his balance and dribbling. He shows signs of being a 2nd option type of scorer, but his fumbleitis is next level. There is a world that if he's now consistently healthy and can cut the turnovers that he could take on quite a bit of the scoring load. He is physically imposing and his step back and off the dribble shooting has improved.

I think OG and Mikal both can up their scoring load and maintain their efficiency. That's why I'm not 100% against trading KAT and not necessarily getting back a bonafide #2.

I'm in this boat. If it's Durant you are swapping for KAT, Mikal, OG and even Mitch get easy baskets all over the place. The ball handling is exactly what the Knicks need next to Jalen too.

I mean KD is a scary move simply because you worry about the age and injury.

That said this guy is probably the most effortless & efficient scorer of all time.

Looking at his stats - most of key scoring/assist/rebound/efficiency stats are not really showing signs of decline. His 2p Fg and 3p Fg % were above career avg and he put up 26/6/4 this year on 53/43/84%. His TO’s for his career are high 3.0 per game (lol more than Kat) but he’s doing a lot more dribbling and occasionally getting the ball up court.

He’s as smart a player as there is and I think he still defends certain positions at a high level.

If we could squeeze KD and a couple of good pieces for Kat — that is extremely interesting for me.
KD is simply the best I’ve seen —- saw him at 18 at Texas vs CU and couldn’t believe how easily he scored the ball. Hard to believe he is still moving so well and he is scoring left.right in/out and still getting to the foul line `6 times a game.

If we could squeeze an Ighodaro or Dunne and maybe a ball handler (T Jones) in deal it’s interesting.

I’m trying to think if either the Knicks or Suns would ask for more in a trade and I can’t decide which team would.

And if you are the Suns, would you prefer to make/keep Booker happy with a trade for KAT or are you more looking for young players and picks from a team like Houston?

I can’t tell who has the upper hand or neither?

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

VDesai wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Fred on the podcast said he was not happy with the decision to drop the article right after the loss. He said it was written well before that. Don't think the writers have any control over that.

If you recall when OG and KAT got into a dust up on the sideline, KAT simply turned his head and didn't respond, Brunson kind of seemed to have OG's back and layed into him a bit.

I can definitely see where KAT would do things wrong and when called out on it basically have no explanation for it. That seems totally plausible and I'm sure very frustrating. I think we've all dealt with people like that, where you are trying to help them with something and they just can't be helped.

I got the unspoken (or maybe it was mentioned) idea that perhaps some of OG/Mikal's frustrations and maybe even performance was hindered too. You can only be so beastly on PnR defense and whatnot when you C is doing whacy ****. You give up after a while or do something out of character over the long haul.

It was also interesting to hear how it was mentioned that OG flourished when Brunson was out.

I think OG has always had a little bit of gripe in him towards the Brunson offense. This is going back awhile where there's been rumblings around it. I believe last year he had a comment about not being able to score if he doesn't get touches. I believe there was rumors he was unhappy about the Mikal move until he was reassured that the team very much saw Mikal as a compliment to OG and not a replacement. And then the thinly veiled Josh Hart comment about egos early in the season seemed to only fit for OG. But I think his discontent has always remained at a healthy level, he and Brunson seem to have a very good on court relationship, OG got his payday, and he seems willing to not go overboard with his gripe on touches.

I personally never really tied his defensive effort to his touches, to me it seems any fall off on his D this year was a result of having no anchor behind him most of the year, and playing full time 4 instead of full time 3, versus him not giving the same effort on D night to night based on touches.

OG will get all the touches he wants if he fixes his balance and dribbling. He shows signs of being a 2nd option type of scorer, but his fumbleitis is next level. There is a world that if he's now consistently healthy and can cut the turnovers that he could take on quite a bit of the scoring load. He is physically imposing and his step back and off the dribble shooting has improved.

I think OG and Mikal both can up their scoring load and maintain their efficiency. That's why I'm not 100% against trading KAT and not necessarily getting back a bonafide #2.

I'm in this boat. If it's Durant you are swapping for KAT, Mikal, OG and even Mitch get easy baskets all over the place. The ball handling is exactly what the Knicks need next to Jalen too.

I mean KD is a scary move simply because you worry about the age and injury.

That said this guy is probably the most effortless & efficient scorer of all time.

Looking at his stats - most of key scoring/assist/rebound/efficiency stats are not really showing signs of decline. His 2p Fg and 3p Fg % were above career avg and he put up 26/6/4 this year on 53/43/84%. His TO’s for his career are high 3.0 per game (lol more than Kat) but he’s doing a lot more dribbling and occasionally getting the ball up court.

He’s as smart a player as there is and I think he still defends certain positions at a high level.

If we could squeeze KD and a couple of good pieces for Kat — that is extremely interesting for me.
KD is simply the best I’ve seen —- saw him at 18 at Texas vs CU and couldn’t believe how easily he scored the ball. Hard to believe he is still moving so well and he is scoring left.right in/out and still getting to the foul line `6 times a game.

If we could squeeze an Ighodaro or Dunne and maybe a ball handler (T Jones) in deal it’s interesting.

I'm frightened by the chemistry. Winning can cure a lot of things, but if we start out rough things can get ugly

for sure his ability to handle the ball (in addition to scoring) is very enticing