Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Good post....For those concerned about his 3 pt shot or lack thereof, keep in mind he is only 21 years and is far from a finished product. Brook Lopez didn't shooting 3's, consistently, until he was 27. If the Knicks are considering making a big move, this is the smart move to make for everything you stated above.

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Good post....For those concerned about his 3 pt shot or lack thereof, keep in mind he is only 21 years and is far from a finished product. Brook Lopez didn't shooting 3's, consistently, until he was 27. If the Knicks are considering making a big move, this is the smart move to make for everything you stated above.

As an asset - bringing Sengun here is a good move for future development and salary/cap control. The proposition was to trade Randle for Sengun and spare parts on the Rockets. IMO that would not be a good move on a team with Championship aspirations. Even not including Randle in a trade would be risky given how Thibs uses centers with a high focus on D.

foosballnick wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Good post....For those concerned about his 3 pt shot or lack thereof, keep in mind he is only 21 years and is far from a finished product. Brook Lopez didn't shooting 3's, consistently, until he was 27. If the Knicks are considering making a big move, this is the smart move to make for everything you stated above.

As an asset - bringing Sengun here is a good move for future development and salary/cap control. The proposition was to trade Randle for Sengun and spare parts on the Rockets. IMO that would not be a good move on a team with Championship aspirations. Even not including Randle in a trade would be risky given how Thibs uses centers with a high focus on D.

Here is the risk factor argument why you would do the deal (or a hypothetical deal): Randle may want a cost prohibitive contract and/or may want to wait to after season to extend contract. If he decides to NOT extend, you are in the position to lose him for nothing OR be hamstrung by whatever contract HE wants.

It's the same position LAC found themselves with PG or Toronto with Pascal. Toronto had to sell Pascal for quarters on the dollar and LAC got a goodbye kiss and hopefully a pat on the butt. Same deal with Brunson and Dallas.

The goal is to not only win a championship but to also guard yourself on the downside risks of losing control of your own destiny. Knicks FO is firmly in control of their salary cap right today. If they let Randle wander a day past his contract extension eligibility on Aug 9 (or whichever day he is first eligible), Randle has a lot more say in control of NY's salary cap position and how they can maneuver.

Today, you can say that as of right now, Knicks have a shot at a championship next year. They should want to give their team 5 shots at a championship. Losing Randle for nothing is a more important objective than only singularly focusing on giving yourself a shot next year at a championship with zero regard for the other 4 years; you got to do both.

Is it better to only secure yourself for the year or better to give/secure yourself more multiple shots at that same goal?

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

I think we are thinking similar things. I just think his passing is way ahead of his other skills and is the thing that makes him a good fit here. I would probably remove that 3 point shot until it gets more consistent and 70% from the line doesn’t make me think that his stroke is pure.

Why would you remove it when I said potential like 5 times over? Knicks would be trading for potential cause Sengun is definitely not as good as Randle is today, that's prominent.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Not trying to put down Sengun. Young big with good potential.
Passing to me is at level of IHart. Just a bit more flashy.
My point is why would we create a hole at PF by trading Randle for a him?
Thought the goal was to fill current needs? Backup Center in case Mitch gets hurt.
Trading for Sengun for Randle would be the FO conceding we need to move on from 2 of our current starters. That seems kind of panicky from a team thought to have just made a move to complete a roster that will challenge the Celts?

Now if we like Sengun so much, I propose Mitch, Deuce, draft pick for Segun and salary filler.
That seems more roster positive. Or a home run of says Precious or Deuce plus draft picks for Sengun. That is a lot better than some of the medias ridiculous talk of KAT.

HofstraBBall wrote:Can we change the thread name to “trade Randle/Mitch/upgrade roster”?
Don’t want to mention you know who since I am not Todd savvy.

I have no idea what that is, but it sounds like an excellent quality! I'm putting that **** on my resume.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

I think we are thinking similar things. I just think his passing is way ahead of his other skills and is the thing that makes him a good fit here. I would probably remove that 3 point shot until it gets more consistent and 70% from the line doesn’t make me think that his stroke is pure.

Why would you remove it when I said potential like 5 times over? Knicks would be trading for potential cause Sengun is definitely not as good as Randle is today, that's prominent.

At 31%, it’s not a good shot. He can take as many as he wants in practice, or if he is wide open trailing. But until he lands it at 36+ he’s probably better off on the block in a 4-1 offense instead of a 5 out.

I’m not saying it can’t or won’t develop. Just that it’s not there yet.

Do we share a different definition of potential?

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

Not trying to put down Sengun. Young big with good potential.
Passing to me is at level of IHart. Just a bit more flashy.
My point is why would we create a hole at PF by trading Randle for a him?
Thought the goal was to fill current needs? Backup Center in case Mitch gets hurt.
Trading for Sengun for Randle would be the FO conceding we need to move on from 2 of our current starters. That seems kind of panicky from a team thought to have just made a move to complete a roster that will challenge the Celts?

Now if we like Sengun so much, I propose Mitch, Deuce, draft pick for Segun and salary filler.
That seems more roster positive. Or a home run of says Precious or Deuce plus draft picks for Sengun. That is a lot better than some of the medias ridiculous talk of KAT.

I think defensive assignments are going to be OG on the Best 3, 4 or 5. Bridges on the best 1, 2 or 3. And then the rest fill in the blanks. Then in a 4-1 offense you need a passing big. You could lineup Brunson, DDV, Bridges, Anunoby and a center without missing a defensive assignment against 80% of the league. I even think Randle could play that role as the pivot to the extent OG can defend the C on the other side of the floor. Or Mitch Robinson could just learn to pass.

So would we trade for Sengun?
Defensively, my contention since losing IHart is that Randle, as it stands will get a lot of backup 5 minutes. With Josh getting a lot of back up 4 minutes.
If we look at the Indiana series, it showed we needed Mitch more than a good passing big at the pivot(IHart)

And for the arguments about Brook Lopez and FT%, I agree that high FT% is generally correlated with 3pt percentage. It’s true that Brook “developed” a 3 point shot later in his career, but his FT% was generally at or above 80% from the beginning, five or take an off year. That “potential” highlighted itself early. Clean stroke.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=MIN*GE*25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=FG3_PCT

I sorted this by players with more than 25 mins to eliminate small sample sets. If you sort by 3pt% and look at 3pt% and FT% together, you will not see many 70% ft shooters over 36% which is about where Points Per Possession favors the 3, ignoring rebounding.

There are very few instances where I would want a 31% 3 point shot over a pass and a ball screen.

EwingsGlass wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lopezbr01.html

And for the arguments about Brook Lopez and FT%, I agree that high FT% is generally correlated with 3pt percentage. It’s true that Brook “developed” a 3 point shot later in his career, but his FT% was generally at or above 80% from the beginning, five or take an off year. That “potential” highlighted itself early. Clean stroke.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional?CF=MIN*GE*25&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=FG3_PCT

I sorted this by players with more than 25 mins to eliminate small sample sets. If you sort by 3pt% and look at 3pt% and FT% together, you will not see many 70% ft shooters over 36% which is about where Points Per Possession favors the 3, ignoring rebounding.

There are very few instances where I would want a 31% 3 point shot over a pass and a ball screen.

I wasn't making a direct cause and effect. I mentioned his FT and midrange shooting as gauges that may lead us to believe he can develop his 3pt shot. If you have better ideas about what indicators a young big may exhibit, that'll help us so please share it.

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

MaddogSharp wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Almost forgot

First you need to get out the readers just so that you can start to look to find where the magnifying glass is at. That’s a lot of work.

Still could be worth it if Danye in there somewhere

I think she's one of the pixels in the middle. So hot.

I still don’t know what kind of super sonic X-ray vision HofstraBBall got but my flip phone almost done downloading pic so hold on

Guys… there are 15 to choose from! I am sure one of them is hot!

Do better! Just follow the same process you use to pull up Julius Randle pictures.

Never posted any Randle pics.

Only posted things that pissed off all the Randle haters…….his stat lines!

. I still don’t know why Randle has haters. Yes sometimes he holds onto the ball too much but he had put up good numbers since we got him

I’ll bite. Anyone who isn’t absolutely overwhelmingly in love with Randle is called a hater. We all want Randle to be the best version of himself. But some of us see that his advanced stats are among the worst in the league among high usage players. His 5 assists looks pretty, but he has near the highest turnover percentage among high usage players. His 25 points per game are great, But he is near the lowest eFG in the league with guys over 30% usage. He barely registers on defensive metrics. He has high volume stats on points, rebounding and assists. So did Josh Hart in his absence. Hart had more triple doubles than Randle. 6 to 1. Randles gravity and the requirement to draw a double team is his huge value. When they added OG, he seems to do a little better. His turnovers were still ridiculously high. When surrounded by Brunson, Bridges and Anunoby, I would love to see what he can come up with. I’d like to see what he can do healthy again. But I can’t unsee his turnover percentage and act like that’s not a problem. Or his eFG is a positive use of this team’s limited number of shots. It’s not that I hate Randle, I’m just not blown away by how he gets his numbers. Mikal’s numbers were pretty much the same or worse on offense last year. I’m hoping that with Brunson, OG and Randle that he will revert back to his advanced stat glory days. I kind of hope the same, that Randle realizes he can average a triple double if he channels his inner Hart. I don’t hate Randle. Just need him to move the ball better and take better shots. And play defense.

I kind of want to sell high on him and buy low on JJJ and overpay for Sengun. But, I am willing to see which Randle shows up to camp this year.

You. Bring up some fair points. TOVs need to come down. Randle, like he did in January, must have a good team concept when on offense.
My thing has always been, it is easy to complain about what Randle can’t do, yet ignore he was the first big FA who actually wanted to come to the **** show that was. He got us to the playoffs for the first time in many years, being a walking double double is not easy no matter what kind of usage you have, his contract accommodated the Knick and was a sign of his commitment to winning and he has the intangible of being a physical force that many PFs today don’t have.

Haters are the ones that magic erase everything I just listed and wanted him traded for scraps.

Jackson would be great. But what do we have to give up besides Randle? How will that affect chemistry and roster. One that seemed high level in January.
KAT suggestion that I have seen in media makes me laugh. $61 million for a soft C that can’t win with several top tier players in place. Also, does not make sense the Knicks would trade a Randle, top PF, and create a new hole in SL, to fill the void of IHart?
Sengun I believe would create both issues mentioned above. He also cannot shoot the three. Which seems to be an emphasis of what the so called experts are saying we are missing.

I am on the side of put the same squad that worked in January. Add some role players, especially a backup C, and then make adjustments at All Star break if things are not going well. Including ALL viable options. Either way, I trust the FO. Who have navigated quite well despite many variables to contend with.

Sengun is interesting ONLY because of his passing. I think his other skills need work. Work that Thibs and his team can manage. But, a Houston wanted Randle for some of their spare parts, it would interesting to see Sengun in the pivot passing the ball to whoever of Brunson, DDV, Bridges or Anunoby was open. And if he cleared out a little bit to let Brunson go to work, he could pull a big man with him. He probably gets a contract like Mo Wagner next year.

I think Sengun is interesting because of his passing, midrange game, 3point potential, and cost controlled contract for 5 more years. Sengun's midrange game is very very good and in combo with his FT shooting % seems to at least give us hints about his 3point potential, which stands at around 30%. That's not half bad for a young 7 footer.

His PnR play with Brunson and wing spacers DDV, OG, Mikal would be unstoppable.

I think we are thinking similar things. I just think his passing is way ahead of his other skills and is the thing that makes him a good fit here. I would probably remove that 3 point shot until it gets more consistent and 70% from the line doesn’t make me think that his stroke is pure.

Why would you remove it when I said potential like 5 times over? Knicks would be trading for potential cause Sengun is definitely not as good as Randle is today, that's prominent.

At 31%, it’s not a good shot. He can take as many as he wants in practice, or if he is wide open trailing. But until he lands it at 36+ he’s probably better off on the block in a 4-1 offense instead of a 5 out.

I’m not saying it can’t or won’t develop. Just that it’s not there yet.

Do we share a different definition of potential?

No, we just value potential in the starting lineup differently.

It's the same 3p% that Randle shot last year. And every other year.

I don’t think Randle should be taking so many 3s either. And Randle is a 80% FT shooter so I would argue his “potential” is higher. He just has really bad shot selection. He has weird footwork when pulling up for 3 off the dribble and is much better on catch and shoot.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot?CF=CATCH_SHOOT_FG3A*GE*2&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612752&dir=D&sort=CATCH_SHOOT_FG3_PCT

Knicks catch and shoot 3s are insane. All I need is a C that can rebound and pass.