Tonite, Frank played some great defense. Im watching him, his interference on plays, stuff that is not on a stat sheet. He was impressive on some plays against simmons. His switches against forwards are impressive.

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Andrew wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Doesn't all this suggest he should be in the g- league? Xavier Rathan-Mayes Been there all year and got called up to Memphis... played well... actually better than Frank has here... then gets called back to Westchester

Really?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3059247/xavier-rathan-mayes

Uh yes really... why didn't post Frank's stats for the year? Frank is averaging 5, 2 and 3 in 70+ games.

Xavier mayes in 5 games actually played 4th quarter minutes and almost helped beat the Spurs and the bulls... Memphis should have kept him cuz he deserved it

No. Mayes, who I actually like, put up worse shotting #s and wasn't as good defensively. Why are you reaching like this man?

I'm reaching? The numbers are the same but some how they aren't? I saw both games he had against the spurs and bulls.

Nalod wrote:Eny, im not saying you and briggs are solely influenced by youtube. I know better, but sometimes to prove a point its used and its funny. I Like Mikhal Bridges a lot ahead of any of the guards.
Maybe I'm just fatigued by the whole Trae Young and the fanboy gushing in January.

Tonite, Frank played some great defense. Im watching him, his interference on plays, stuff that is not on a stat sheet. He was impressive on some plays against simmons. His switches against forwards are impressive.

I agree....

But he still had a terrible game. If he didn't play at all and those 21 minutes were given to mudiay and Burke exclusively.... we would have actually won the game!

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Andrew wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Doesn't all this suggest he should be in the g- league? Xavier Rathan-Mayes Been there all year and got called up to Memphis... played well... actually better than Frank has here... then gets called back to Westchester

Really?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3059247/xavier-rathan-mayes

Uh yes really... why didn't post Frank's stats for the year? Frank is averaging 5, 2 and 3 in 70+ games.

Xavier mayes in 5 games actually played 4th quarter minutes and almost helped beat the Spurs and the bulls... Memphis should have kept him cuz he deserved it

No. Mayes, who I actually like, put up worse shotting #s and wasn't as good defensively. Why are you reaching like this man?

I'm reaching? The numbers are the same but some how they aren't? I saw both games he had against the spurs and bulls.

The same? XRM had lower shooting percentages and l theower per 36 numbers in less games, but he has identical stats to Frank? No.

Oh now we're looking at per 36 minute numbers on guys averaging 5pts 2 rebounds and 3 assists per game? We're going to nickel and dime two players shooting under 40%?

You're not just reaching... you are reaching around invading my civil rights

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Andrew wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Doesn't all this suggest he should be in the g- league? Xavier Rathan-Mayes Been there all year and got called up to Memphis... played well... actually better than Frank has here... then gets called back to Westchester

Really?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3059247/xavier-rathan-mayes

Uh yes really... why didn't post Frank's stats for the year? Frank is averaging 5, 2 and 3 in 70+ games.

Xavier mayes in 5 games actually played 4th quarter minutes and almost helped beat the Spurs and the bulls... Memphis should have kept him cuz he deserved it

No. Mayes, who I actually like, put up worse shotting #s and wasn't as good defensively. Why are you reaching like this man?

I'm reaching? The numbers are the same but some how they aren't? I saw both games he had against the spurs and bulls.

The same? XRM had lower shooting percentages and l theower per 36 numbers in less games, but he has identical stats to Frank? No.

Oh now we're looking at per 36 minute numbers on guys averaging 5pts 2 rebounds and 3 assists per game? We're going to nickel and dime two players shooting under 40%?

You're not just reaching... you are reaching around invading my civil rights

I don't want to diminish your feelings by telling you you're wrong. The #MeToo movement is for everyone and you should feel empowered to speak out, no matter how ridiculous you're claims are..But you're wrong. Yes I'm going to Nicole and dime, just like you refuse to see there's another side of the court.

Read my last post before this one ****boy sorry I can't help it

Knixkik wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:We are looking at college players youtube goodness vs. Franks real life games.
when you contrast franks youtube goodness and consider this is him at this level you can see he does possess the physical ability and does execute.
Whats missing that contributes to his miserable Season long sample stats? CONSISTANCY.
This years rookie crop of guards is not setting the world on fire. Monk was the most discussed knick pick once DSM refused to eat octopus. Mitchell was the obvious hindsight choice and 14 other teams passed on him as well.
Frank earns his minutes on defense. He is coachable and proven more durable than originally thought. Kid is growing and we should be happy he has yet to lift a weight. His body has grown "organically" and has no known defects. DSM knee concerns are real. Not a rookie issue but his greatest asset is his explosiveness.

Some of us watch real life/ live College BB and dont have to rely on youtube vids...In real life, Brunson, Sexton and Try Burkes have a more advanced offensive game than Frank has at this point and its really not that close. Can Frank improve? Of course....But so can those guys and any other 19 or 20yr old in the league. Ultimately, Frank is behind in his offensive development compared some of the potential looto picks who play elite pg/Lead guards entering the league last yr and this.

I agree with your points and no doubt frank is not as advanced on offense. But he is on defense and that's 50% of the game. Lets be honest, we don't see too many "D" youtube highlight reels do we? Brunson is three years older, as is Bridges. I'd be happy with either or both. Thought I saw Brunson mock draft in the second round?
He is very polished and would love to have him!
My point is to just demonstrate that frank is not "garbage" and we tend to glorify the highlight reel as we are impressionable. I am not different. I doubt I watch as much college hoop as you and not pretending to be all knowing. I just know even the march madness hype pulls kids up in the mocks because of the hype.
The vetting system is far from perfect which makes it fun. Its easy to say I want "Monk, DSM and Mitchell" and they hype in the aftermath " I really wanted Mitchell"!
Statistically easy to "Be right".
Frank would be a freshman this season in College. That's why he gets some free passes.

Exactly, Frank would be a college freshman right now in the US. I think he would look very comparable to SGA from kentucky this season. Better defensively, but similar in terms of scoring. SGA somewhat let the game come to him, and played a calculated and controlled game instead of trying to create a ton off the dribble. Frank's efficiency would be greater in college, as it was high last year in France, a more dominant league than college. Very few guards in college match his physical profile, so he would look good. Obviously the NBA is a major jump. Brunson is dominant, and would probably struggle to be more than a quality backup PG in the NBA. Frank has a long way to go simply because the NBA is such a huge jump, but he has shown capabilities that at least make future encouraging.

And DSJ would be a sophomore, Sexton is a freshman as is Young...All of these players can and should improve just as you guys claim Frank will. Its understood that Frank has a long way to go, but IMO, he wasnt talented enough to be pick 8....he has shown late 1st rd talent.

Considering his impact has been greater than guys like Monk, Smith, etc despite being younger than them, i don't agree. 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan is a rare physical profile for a guard. You won't find guys like that being drafted late first round.

I don't get the younger than them point at all. Monk is 5 months older then Frank. Smith is 8 months older. I don't think Monk improves less because he is 5 months older than Frank or he has a lower ceiling for improvement. That doesn't make sense. Also, not sure about the impact statement in regards to Smith and Frank. One guy is starting on a 23 win team that has an owner that openly said we are tanking over a month ago and the other guy comes off the bench for a 27 win team that claims to not be tanking. One guy plays for a championship coach that is notoriously hard on point guards and the other guy was locked into developmental minutes and plays for Jeff Hornacek.

Frank is our guy because he is a Knick. His offense is improving and he has been more aggressive. Those things are good but I don't see the need to try to sell his age or impact compared to some of his same age peers that are less than a year older than him.

Frank was barely eligible for the draft. If he were a US player he would have been a high school senior last year most likely. That's what I meant by younger.

But most of you guys were selling the idea that Frank was more experienced than the college freshman entering the draft because Frank was playing in a pro league in France....Technically, wouldn't that make Frank older, basketball-wise, since he's played againts grown men in a pro league that most on here said was better than the NCAA?

So, let me get this straight....DSJ is scoring more pts (15pts), averaging more assists (5), better fg% (although both are not shooting well), more rebounds, he's starting while Frank can barely get 20 mins per....And Frank is having a bigger impact on a 27 win team? This is Trevor Ariza level of delusion....I'm not saying Smith is setting the world on fire, but he is having a better season than Frank!

If you are looking at basic stats, like points and assists, sure Smith is having a better year. The problem is with the high volume of scoring and the bad shooting percentage, Smith isn't having a positive impact on the team's offense. He is also a bad defensive player. Frank is also having a bad offensive year, shooting similarly bad from the field, but is having a great defensive impact. So player A is a net negative on both ends of the floor, albeit a higher volume of scoring. Player B is having a negative impact on 1 end of the floor, and a positive impact on the other end. Which player would you pick?

Also, in terms of Frank's experience, not sure who's selling overseas playing equals more experience. My thought is, Frank is 19 years old. Compare that to a guy like Josh Jackson, who is technically in the same class, yet is already 21 years old. I would expect that player to be considerably more NBA ready and physically developed, all things considered. I believe that a 21 year old should be more developed than a 19 year old, and therefore more NBA ready. No 2 prospects are the same, but generally speaking, the older the more developed and NBA ready. Frank is the youngest rotation player in the league, and it shows. Other than his incredible measurements, he is very underdeveloped physically.

If you are looking at basic stats, like points and assists, sure Smith is having a better year. The problem is with the high volume of scoring and the bad shooting percentage, Smith isn't having a positive impact on the team's offense. He is also a bad defensive player. Frank is also having a bad offensive year, shooting similarly bad from the field, but is having a great defensive impact. So player A is a net negative on both ends of the floor, albeit a higher volume of scoring. Player B is having a negative impact on 1 end of the floor, and a positive impact on the other end. Which player would you pick?

I actually watch the games and use stats to support unlike some of this board who use stats as an end-all be-all...I've seen at least 15 Mavs games and DSJ is a better player than Frank at this point IMO. He's not better by a wide margin, but his offensive game is a more advanced...not sure why this upsets people...Obviously, Smith is a better offensive player than he is defensive, but why doesn't he get the same benefit of the doubt that Frank gets? Why can't the 20 yr old Smith improve defensively same way most seem to think 19 yr old Frank will improve offensively? It's a lot easier to improve on the defensive end than it is on the offensive end...Frank is a good defender but lets not make him out to be Alvin Robertson or Sydney Moncrief!!!

Also, in terms of Frank's experience, not sure who's selling overseas playing equals more experience. My thought is, Frank is 19 years old. Compare that to a guy like Josh Jackson, who is technically in the same class, yet is already 21 years old. I would expect that player to be considerably more NBA ready and physically developed, all things considered. I believe that a 21 year old should be more developed than a 19 year old, and therefore more NBA ready. No 2 prospects are the same, but generally speaking, the older the more developed and NBA ready. Frank is the youngest rotation player in the league, and it shows. Other than his incredible measurements, he is very underdeveloped physically.

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Andrew wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Doesn't all this suggest he should be in the g- league? Xavier Rathan-Mayes Been there all year and got called up to Memphis... played well... actually better than Frank has here... then gets called back to Westchester

Really?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3059247/xavier-rathan-mayes

Uh yes really... why didn't post Frank's stats for the year? Frank is averaging 5, 2 and 3 in 70+ games.

Xavier mayes in 5 games actually played 4th quarter minutes and almost helped beat the Spurs and the bulls... Memphis should have kept him cuz he deserved it

No. Mayes, who I actually like, put up worse shotting #s and wasn't as good defensively. Why are you reaching like this man?

I'm reaching? The numbers are the same but some how they aren't? I saw both games he had against the spurs and bulls.

Why do you continue to undersell the other side of the ball? No one is saying Andre Roberson is trash just because he can't score. I just don't get it. You can't line up 2 players and compare their stats to determine which player is better. Derrick Rose still scores more than Draymond Green.

Derrick Rose is not a good basketball player. Don't insult my intelligence

I'm not. Just saying you seem to ignore the defensive side of the ball and are heavily influenced by offensive stats. Both are important. Calling Frank horrible means you are only concerned with 1 side of the court.

You guys keep saying that...

I just said Frank sucks.... I didn't say because of anything specific. You did keep bringing up other players and all the stupid stats. You guys keep bringing up defense.

Frank sucks because #1 he has deer in the headlights look even when he's playing well. He is deathly afraid to drive the ball. He forced passes to players being double teamed when he could shoot. He doesn't rebound enough for his size. He doesn't pass or create enough to be considered a point guard. His handle is very mediocre. He's always stepping back because he can't advance the ball if Scott Brooks was guarding him... on defense he's not aggressive enough. He makes plays because of his length but it's hardly a struggle. For every good play he makes which is not as often as people make it out to be, he gets torched. Go ahead and show me stats... it doesn't matter if the guy is a liability across the board.

Ron Baker is probably the Knicks best defender, he had the full package. When he's rolling he might be our best play maker as far as having his head in the game, being, aggressive, and initiating offense.... but he can't hit the broad side of a barn with his jumpshot.... kid can't finish a layup. When he does his value skyrockets.... you can't say the same for Frank. I'm not talking about the future. I'm talking about right now. In the future if Baker could stick his open jumpers and make his layups.... Baker is the better player. Time will tell.... but that's a real basketball analysis. I'm not assuming **** like you guys keep doing.

Come on Eny saying "frank sucks" is just silly. Now i think you make valid points about what he needs to work on and what his weaknesses are on offense....nobody is disputing that. But saying he sucks first off isnt true and secondly seems more like an outburst of anger toward others who believe in frank

2 points 1 for 6 last night again and again and again

he more than sucks, if he was on Orlando you guys would be laughing at him, certainly not pleading with mills and perry to trade for him.

Frank should not be playing in the NBA right now, he is only 19 ( I think the only 19 yr old in the league who's getting PT)

Forcing him to be a pg, forcing kp to be hakeem, accepting lance 2 shot attempts per game.

I wonder what the fck these guys do in practice because they come out and make the same mistake game after game

Uptown wrote:I actually watch the games and use stats to support unlike some of this board who use stats as an end-all be-all...I've seen at least 15 Mavs games and DSJ is a better player than Frank at this point IMO. He's not better by a wide margin, but his offensive game is a more advanced...not sure why this upsets people...Obviously, Smith is a better offensive player than he is defensive, but why doesn't he get the same benefit of the doubt that Frank gets? Why can't the 20 yr old Smith improve defensively same way most seem to think 19 yr old Frank will improve offensively? It's a lot easier to improve on the defensive end than it is on the offensive end...Frank is a good defender but lets not make him out to be Alvin Robertson or Sydney Moncrief!!!

I have always thought the opposite, and by miles.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:JESUS CHRIST!!! We drafted Frank at an early stage of his development. If we had done that with Donovan Mitchell when he was 19 the same premature irrational comments would likely be made. Mitchell wasn't even Draft worthy at 19 and now at 21 he's a totally different guy. Let's just keep things in perspective. Frank came in as a project and we all knew it. There was no expectation that he was suddenly going to be a big scorer. His RAW talent made him worth the pick. The rest of the development will take some time.
Anyone REALLY watching can see Frank DOESN'T SUCK!!! He's only just getting started. There's a difference.

He doesn't.... but when guys keep trying to say he's better than he is today you have to call them out.

So when is the question..."Why draft an undeveloped 19 year old at an 8th pick" come into play? Just tired of this whole "He is 19" bull****. Why would a smart organization pick such a question mark in the lottery? So if a team pucks a 16 year old (if they could) in high school, can they just keep telling their fan base that the reason he sucks is cuz he is still young and needs to develope?
The only time you pick someone that young and in a foreign system is if he is some kind of phenom. Frank is clearly not.

because guys who can defend multiple positions, have PG skills and knock down shots from every where are the things that championship teams are made of. Draymond Green and Ben Wallace might have been late picks or not drafted at all, but if teams KNEW what they would become they would be top 5 picks in every draft. That is why you take a risk on guy who is not there yet, undeveloped, but has the potential to be there. That is worth taking a shot on. Those guys change the culture and direction of franchises. Taking a guy with that kind of potential is easy with the 8th pick especially considering what was behind him, Donovan Mitchell aside. Guys like Monk and Dennis Smith are easy to get. Trey Burke just dropped 42/12, he's 25 years old. I dont need to spend the 8th pick on a guy who's only idea of helping the team is trying to score harder and dunk harder.

There is a reason most of the mocks didnt have Frank falling past 12... those types of players have tremendous value and change teams. Frank isnt there yet but some teams are willing to wait and try to develop them. The Knicks didnt take a 19 year old to help us win games this year. He's taking his lumps. I dont know how much better he will be next year but a summer of weights and a summer league and a training camp and I am confident you will see a significant jump in everything. There is a reason the guys on the team love the kid

Sorry but you dont use your 8th pick to have a possible Draymond Green. Did you forget that he shines because of Curry, Klay, and oh yeah Durant. But okay, lets say GS needed a solid stopper, like Frank, did they pick him at the 8? Draymond was picked at 35. And he was seen as a good defensive stop and a rebounder. And btw, Frank is NO Draymond Green as he is just a defensive talent and not a rebounder and no where near Green's intensity. Btw, did GS use their lottery pick to pick a guy like Frank with their 6th and 11th pick? Answer NO, they picked offense in Clay and Curry. Except in 2010 when they went with the "Athletic Stopper" in UDOH. and they quickly learned that was a mistake.

I just think that most that think Frank was a great 8th pick are either stubborn or are still on the Phil tip. As for Dennis, you just cant give in to the fact he has proven to be a better player thus far. Yet you say those guys can be had any time? But 6'6 guys that can hustle on D cant? And dogging Smith 5 dimes per game, ability to create for others, athletic ability and high ceiling while praising Franks sole attribute of playing good defense is hard to support. Fact is Franks defense has not made a difference in MANY games this year. And if we dont get a Curry, Klay and Durant, his contribution to the team will not mean much.

I gotta disagree on your Green take. He was skilled, but he was fat and know knew what he would become. I think his point forward skills stood out more than anything. Green beat the odds and if you look at the progress he made, most teams would've taken him lottery if we did a re-draft right now. Green isnt a typical case. You forget, Frank won us quite a few games with his defense and passing. Remember this game?

Frank has two-way potential and that's why he drafted. The fact that he's had such on impact guarding the top PGs in the league speaks volumes and his offense is coming along. The draft is about potential. Come back two years later and then you can say where he should've been slotted.

Draymond Green averaged 16 and 10 his last yr at Michigan st. A
nd was the player of the yr in the big 10 while Frank was averaging 5pts per?..not sure why we are comparing the 2...Green coming into the draft was a better rebounder, was a better defender, better passer and most likely was better coached than Frank...not to mention his intensity and strength...dude has the ability get a triple double everytime he steps onto the court...why are we comparing these 2 again?

Hofstraball brought up the fact that Green was a second round pick. My point was that Green was out of shape and no one knew what kind of player Green would turn out to be. No one thought he would still be in the league when he was drafted. His rookie year was as bad as Frank's and he was older. To say you can consistently pull a Draymond Green out of the second round or late first round isn't accurate. Draymond and Frank's situations are a different.

Actually Fishmike began the comparrison. Which I responded was a bad one. First, they play different positions. Greeen can contribute with rebounds, assists and intensity. Frank plays good defense. But biggest difference...(Reason why I brought up Green at 35) was that Frank was taken at 8! Its reasonable to expect more at that spot. Btw. Never said "you can consistently pull a Green out of the second round". I said that you can pick 6'6 athletic players that have weaknesses and have a 50/50 chance of making it. Green was one of those. It just turned out he made it. But the help he has around him is a big reason.