nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

dacash wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

i do believe that 40 acres and a mule was promised but never given, i might be wrong. I dont think that Germany promised the families of the ppl that were wrongly killed in the camps anything but 40 acres and a mule was promised to black and never given.

Yeah, and Arkrud's situation is irrelevant to the topic at hand. His family's situation is tragic and there should be reparations (although I believe there have been some made by Germany). However, the topic of discussion is whether we want our country to compensate our victims. What Germany does is a whole other discussion. It's one that we Americans have much less control over.

Sociologist who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union and 9/11 attacks warns that American global power will collapse under Donald Trump.

Johan Galtung, a Norwegian professor at the University of Hawaii and Transcend Peace University, first predicted in 2000 that the “U.S. empire” would wither away within 25 years, but he moved up that forecast by five years with the election of President George W. Bush, reported Motherboard.

Now, nearly 17 years later, Galtung predicts that decline could come even quicker under a Trump administration.

“He blunts contradictions with Russia, possibly with China, and seems to do also with North Korea,” Galtung said. “But he sharpens contradictions inside the USA.”

Galtung’s biographer credits the sociologist and mathematician with correctly predicting the 1978 Iranian revolution; China’s Tiananmen Square uprising in 1989; the collapse of the Soviet empire in 1989; the economic crises of 1987, 2008 and 2011; and the 9/11 attacks.

His predictions are based on a model comparing the rise and fall of 10 historical empires, and decades ago Galtung developed a theory of decline based on “synchronizing and mutually reinforcing contradictions.”

For example, Galtung’s model identified five key structural contradictions in Soviet society that he predicted would lead to its fragmentation unless the U.S.S.R. completely transformed itself.

Galtung predicted the tensions between the repressed Soviet working class and the wealthier “bourgeoisie” with nothing to buy would lead to economic stagnation, and those economic forces combined with the push for more freedom of expression, autonomy and freedom of movement would — eventually did — pull down the Soviet Union.

He predicted in his 2009 book, “The Fall of the American Empire — and then What?” that the U.S. was plagued by 15 internal contradictions that would end its global power by 2020, and Galtung warned that phase of the decline would usher in a period of reactionary fascism.

American fascism would spring from its capacity for global violence, a vision of exceptionalism, a belief in an inevitable and final war between good and evil, the cult of a strong state leading that battle, and a cult of the “strong leader.”

Galtung said all of those elements presented themselves during the Bush era, but he fears fascist tendencies could sharpen under Trump as those cultists lash out in disbelief at the loss of American power.

The sociologist identified unsustainable economic, social, military and political contradictions that would eventually topple the U.S. as a world power.

Overproduction relative to demand, unemployment and the increasing costs of climate change would weaken the U.S. economy, according to his model.

Galtung also predicted that rising tensions between the U.S., NATO and its military allies, coupled with the increasing economic costs of war and the political conflicts between the U.S., United Nations and the European Union, would also diminish American power.

“The collapse has two faces,” Galtung said. “Other countries refuse to be ‘good allies: and the USA has to do the killing themselves, by bombing from high altitudes, drones steered by computer from an office, Special Forces killing all over the place. Both are happening today, except for Northern Europe, which supports these wars, for now. That will probably not continue beyond 2020, so I stand by that deadline.”

Rising tensions between America’s Judeo-Christian majority and Islam and other religious minorities created cultural contradictions, which are further sharpened by social contradictions between the so-called American dream and the reality that fewer Americans can achieve prosperity through hard work.

The decline of the U.S. as a global power would probably rip apart its domestic cohesion, Galtung said, which could potentially reshape American borders.

“As a trans-border structure the collapse I am thinking of is global, not domestic,” Galtung said. “But it may have domestic repercussion, like white supremacists or even minorities like Hawaiians, Inuits, indigenous Americans and black Americans doing the same, maybe arguing for the United States as community, confederation rather than a ‘union.’”

That breakup could potentially bring a revitalization of the American republic, Galtung said — if Trump makes a surprising shift in his persona and policies.

“If he manages to apologize deeply to all the groups he has insulted and turn foreign policy from U.S. interventions — soon 250 after Jefferson in Libya 1801 — and not use wars (killing more than 20 million in 37 countries after 1945): A major revitalization!” Galtung said. “Certainly making ‘America Great Again.’ We’ll see.”

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dacash wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

i do believe that 40 acres and a mule was promised but never given, i might be wrong. I dont think that Germany promised the families of the ppl that were wrongly killed in the camps anything but 40 acres and a mule was promised to black and never given.

Yeah, and Arkrud's situation is irrelevant to the topic at hand. His family's situation is tragic and there should be reparations (although I believe there have been some made by Germany). However, the topic of discussion is whether we want our country to compensate our victims. What Germany does is a whole other discussion. It's one that we Americans have much less control over.

Yes, plus Two Wrongs don't make a Right. Just because other injustices were done and not corrected doesn't mean that it's OK!!! Also I get the impression that he is somewhat belittling the magnitude of the Atlantic Slave trade and just how many Africans Died and other suffered never knowing freedom. The numbers are mind blowing.

Over the period of the Atlantic Slave Trade, from approximately 1526 to 1867, some 12.5 million slaves had been shipped from Africa, and 10.7 million had arrived in the Americas. The Atlantic Slave Trade was likely the most costly in human life of all of long-distance global migrations.

The first Africans forced to work in the New World left from Europe at the beginning of the sixteenth century, not from Africa. The first slave voyage direct from Africa to the Americas probably sailed in 1526.

The volume of slaves carried off from Africa reached thirty thousand per year in the 1690s and eighty-five thousand per year a century later. More than eight out of ten Africans forced into the slave trade made their journeys in the century and a half after 1700.

By 1820, nearly four Africans for every one European had crossed the Atlantic. About four out of every five females that traversed the Atlantic were from Africa.

The majority of enslaved Africans were brought to British North America between 1720 and 1780. The decade 1821 to 1830 still saw over 80,000 people a year leaving Africa in slave ships. Well over a million more – one tenth of the volume carried off in the slave trade era – followed within the next twenty years.

Africans carried to Brazil came overwhelmingly from Angola. Africans carried to North America, including the Caribbean, left from mainly West Africa.

Well over 90 percent of enslaved Africans were imported into the Caribbean and South America. Only about 6 percent of African captives were sent directly to British North America. Yet by 1825, the US had a quarter of blacks in the New World.

The Middle Passage was dangerous and miserable for African slaves. The sexes were separated, kept naked, packed close together, and the men were chained for long periods. About twelve percent of those who embarked did not survive the voyage.

https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery

With regard to Reparations, I can tell you that SOME former slaves did get their land but after they killed President Lincoln they rescinded the program and eventually the Jim Crow Era completely rolled back the progress that AA's started to make. I'm amazed at how much AA's actually did achieve in the short period of Reconstruction where they had freedom to Elect leaders and build institutions. Also figuring out just how much was stolen from slaves who worked all those years is not unknowable. Amazingly there are accurate records of all production during slavery. It's actually amazing just how much info there is.

Here's the funny thing. The men who bought and enslaved my ancestors were German Imigrants that barely spoke English. They were given land and money to get started. They didn't even pay cash for my ancestors! They bought them on CREDIT!!! I have a copy of the Taxes on slaves paid from the slave holder who owned my ancestors. In 1824 the Tax on slaves was 75 cents per slave. $2.00 per Free Negroe or Mulattoe.

I know it probably seems a weird point, but I don't get what was going through the minds of slave owners- I mean did they ever feel ashamed? What happened to their conscience? Sense of empathy? How did they sleep at night knowing they had people imprisoned in their homes? I don't get it as a human being. I mean those German immigrants, got some land and money, then must have thought "Great, lets get some human beings as slaves on credit!"- how they heck did people think that was a great idea?!

djsunyc wrote:http://www.newsweek.com/2016/12/23/donald-trump-foreign-business-deals-jeopardize-us-531140.html

Kurt Eichenwald is doing some very nice work and reporting. Newsweek seems to be reviving itself over the past couple of years.

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dacash wrote:

arkrud wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

arkrud wrote:- we have not a "race" problem but African American nation problem. We just overlooked that new nation of people get created with specific culture which has no place yet to safe-realize and even cannot yet identifie itself. Racism is also there but this is not the major issue.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to more clearly explain this statement. I can't understand what you're trying to say here. What do you mean by "African American nation problem"? What do you mean by "new nation of people created with specific culture which has no place"?

I'm really not sure what you are saying and want you to elaborate on these points.

Every nation need place to realize it suverenity. It may be independent country or cultural enclave inside multi-national country.
It can be territorial or just cultural identity.
I believe that Afro-Americans are a new nation in the process of self-realization.
There are clearly many people of African race who are not African Americans while leaving in USA. They are representing other nations - like Iruba, Nigerians, etc.
All of then can be a subject of racism. But for African Americans it is obviously more to it.
American nation is a mix of emigrants from all over the world who came here at their own will and many with no intentions to maintain their national identity but rather became American nationals politically and culturally. It is not true however for many people who are there not by their will or were there before colonization like Native Americans and Northers People. They want to maintain their national identity separate from US Americans. And they have all rights to do so.
Same true for African Americans. But I think they just start to realize this national identity.
I think the whole American society will need to realize and embrace it. But this process is complicated and just starting.
It is definitely bigger that this Trump-no-Trump distractions.

WOW! You have a lot of concepts in your post. To simplify things from my perspective I won't try to address all of your points. Let me just say this, African Americans have ALWAYS been part of the fabric of this country! Even when we weren't considered to be so.

AA's have fought in every war this country ever fought. After gaining freedom AA's could've taken violent revenge on a massive scale but in fact that was relatively rare! All AA's ever wanted was to be treated fairly and with respect and to pursue the American Dream!

There was NEVER any justification for violence and oppression inflicted upon AA's. The restraint under the circumstances is a badge of honor and a rebuke to this nation that they were treated so poorly for so long. For what reason were AA's denied their rights or mistreated??? There is no reason other than pure evil and greed.

To this very day this country has never fully lived up to the debt they owe AA's. There would be no America as we know it without AA's. Our story is inextricably intertwined with the history of this country. We are America just as much if not more than most since we gave all for this country and received so little of the spoils of success we helped create. If you don't know what I'm talking about then go look up the many resources on how much AA's contributed to the fortunes of this country.

This is all fair and true.
My question is how you identify yourself and AA people inside America - as a unique nation which need to be treated as such or you want to dissolve into American nation which has no concept or race, nationality, and cultural identity other that American? You cannot have it both ways - it is the choice to be made.
As far as someone owe something to somebody I do not believe in this.
I owe nothing to any nation and no nation owe anything to me.
I rely only on myself and owe only what I managed to achieve.
And I give same right to every other human being to do same.
If you look at the history of the world no nation that was enslaved, murdered, tortured, and displaced get their debt paid off by anybody.
There is no fairness in history. Until oppressed get on right side of the gun they get nothing back.

African Americans didn't choose to be set apart! That was imposed upon them and to a large degree still goes on. AA's wanted to live in a colorblind society but it was the White majority that did not want it. You really don't know or understand the dynamics of race in this country. There is much I could teach you about the TRUTH of this country but you have to want to know the truth.

Natives were mistreated but did receive some recompense and land of their own! Japanese Americans that were wrongfully held in concentration camps received recompense. This country became great largely off the backs of African Slaves and all they did was kick us in the teeth!

Just so we're clear AA's are a large part of the identity and culture of America you can't separate us out of history and have the same country. There's no facet of what made America what it is that doesn't have a connection to the African slaves. That includes the Revolution and the Constitution. Everything was based off of the system of slavery and how that allowed this country to become great.

OK
So all wealth America has is build by slaves...
The rest of the people were just a bunch of cowboys drinking in saloons...
Now what? They should go back to Europe from were they unlawfully came to grab the land, kill and enslave people, and burn the crosses...
And leave everything they grab to local and displaced people to restore the historical fairness.
Obviously it is absurd.
No one has power and right to separate people in any kind of groups.
And it is not needed as they separating themselves without anyone help.
What Native and Japaneses receive is a joke comparing to all dignity that was taking away from them. Not only dignity, everything.
And they will not get it back ever. Even if the whole world will want to give it back to them.
Its gone and not returnable. Last year snow.
The history of the human kind is the history of genocide, destruction, wars, oppression, and injustice.
This how we came around. All of us.
And as we will continue to berry our had in the past and finding enemies and animosities we will never get out of it.
Time to give everyone the clean slate and leave together as one.

Like I said you really have no clue about this subject. I'm my family historian and in my research I've had to also research the family of the people who enslaved my ancestors. I have extensive records on every descendent from the man who enslaved my people. All the land and profits made going back 258 years.

In the census records they actually did detailed financial statements so I have access to just how much money they made off my ancestors hard work. I have copies of the actual record of purchase of my ancestor back in 1758! I have a nearly complete record of births and deaths from that time to the present and I can tell you it is life changing to see it all organized into a coherent record.

I'm planning to visit the area where my ancestors slaved away on plantations and visit the graves. I hope to also find where they may have buried my original ancestors back before they marked the graves of slaves. I can tell you that it's not time to just "give everyone a clean slate and live together as one". This isn't ancient history! I've got relatives still living that lived much of this horrible history.

His challenge is not a lack of understanding, it's indifference, lack of respect for others and a single minded need to rationalize anything that benefits him, however remotely into an absolute positive. It's not an uncommon combination in general.

You guys are amazing in how microscopic and self-centric is your vision of the world.
Little mind in little space.
Good luck living in your little box and slowly carry you little home on your shoulders while the world moving forward at the speed of light.
As far as researching my family - 256 members of it were burned in the chambers on Nazy camps. What compensation should I get from Germans and other Nazy alliance nations? And what is will account for for 6 million people including 2 millions children. How much wealth this slaughtered people will be able to create for human race?
And nobody want to compensate... what a pity...

i do believe that 40 acres and a mule was promised but never given, i might be wrong. I dont think that Germany promised the families of the ppl that were wrongly killed in the camps anything but 40 acres and a mule was promised to black and never given.

Yeah, and Arkrud's situation is irrelevant to the topic at hand. His family's situation is tragic and there should be reparations (although I believe there have been some made by Germany). However, the topic of discussion is whether we want our country to compensate our victims. What Germany does is a whole other discussion. It's one that we Americans have much less control over.

Yes, plus Two Wrongs don't make a Right. Just because other injustices were done and not corrected doesn't mean that it's OK!!! Also I get the impression that he is somewhat belittling the magnitude of the Atlantic Slave trade and just how many Africans Died and other suffered never knowing freedom. The numbers are mind blowing.

Over the period of the Atlantic Slave Trade, from approximately 1526 to 1867, some 12.5 million slaves had been shipped from Africa, and 10.7 million had arrived in the Americas. The Atlantic Slave Trade was likely the most costly in human life of all of long-distance global migrations.

The first Africans forced to work in the New World left from Europe at the beginning of the sixteenth century, not from Africa. The first slave voyage direct from Africa to the Americas probably sailed in 1526.

The volume of slaves carried off from Africa reached thirty thousand per year in the 1690s and eighty-five thousand per year a century later. More than eight out of ten Africans forced into the slave trade made their journeys in the century and a half after 1700.

By 1820, nearly four Africans for every one European had crossed the Atlantic. About four out of every five females that traversed the Atlantic were from Africa.

The majority of enslaved Africans were brought to British North America between 1720 and 1780. The decade 1821 to 1830 still saw over 80,000 people a year leaving Africa in slave ships. Well over a million more – one tenth of the volume carried off in the slave trade era – followed within the next twenty years.

Africans carried to Brazil came overwhelmingly from Angola. Africans carried to North America, including the Caribbean, left from mainly West Africa.

Well over 90 percent of enslaved Africans were imported into the Caribbean and South America. Only about 6 percent of African captives were sent directly to British North America. Yet by 1825, the US had a quarter of blacks in the New World.

The Middle Passage was dangerous and miserable for African slaves. The sexes were separated, kept naked, packed close together, and the men were chained for long periods. About twelve percent of those who embarked did not survive the voyage.

https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery

With regard to Reparations, I can tell you that SOME former slaves did get their land but after they killed President Lincoln they rescinded the program and eventually the Jim Crow Era completely rolled back the progress that AA's started to make. I'm amazed at how much AA's actually did achieve in the short period of Reconstruction where they had freedom to Elect leaders and build institutions. Also figuring out just how much was stolen from slaves who worked all those years is not unknowable. Amazingly there are accurate records of all production during slavery. It's actually amazing just how much info there is.

Here's the funny thing. The men who bought and enslaved my ancestors were German Imigrants that barely spoke English. They were given land and money to get started. They didn't even pay cash for my ancestors! They bought them on CREDIT!!! I have a copy of the Taxes on slaves paid from the slave holder who owned my ancestors. In 1824 the Tax on slaves was 75 cents per slave. $2.00 per Free Negroe or Mulattoe.

I know it probably seems a weird point, but I don't get what was going through the minds of slave owners- I mean did they ever feel ashamed? What happened to their conscience? Sense of empathy? How did they sleep at night knowing they had people imprisoned in their homes? I don't get it as a human being. I mean those German immigrants, got some land and money, then must have thought "Great, lets get some human beings as slaves on credit!"- how they heck did people think that was a great idea?!

What made it worse was these people were VERY religious. In fact they came partly to escape religious persecution as many others did. The guy that was the last slaveholder before the civil war that owned my ancestors was named Rev. Lewis J. C. YUP he was a religious leader and a board member of the Methodist Episcopal Church South. Now this was also interesting since Methodists were against slavery, but the Methodists in the South seceded from the Main church and formed their own sect just so that they could maintain their Slaves.

djsunyc wrote:

The 1st thing I thought about was why didn't Kanye wear something better for such a meeting? I know that's kind of small but it just bothered me seeing him with a sweat shirt on like that. Anyway Kanye is crazy 😜 so...