wargames wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The celtics reportedly think he will be on the board at 9 and are trying to trade with the Hornets. If the Knicks don't mess up at 4 I think they are right.

I really don't see WCS falling past 6. The Kings want him because he would fit in great with Cousins and Cousins has said he wants him as well.

Everybody would love to play with a guy like this. In this day where it's all about offense and highlights, players that know how to play individual and team defense are extremely valuable to the team. Everybody has turned into pretty boys these days. The old Pistons and Knicks type of defensive players are very limited, because they don't sale tickets. Offense sells tickets, so thats what everybody likes to do. You can see it in pickup games.....It's like they just let their man score, so they can leak out and get a quick bucket.

Every big man or PF would love to have a defensive partner to do their dirty work. Especially Cousins, who's all about offense.

crzymdups wrote:I watched Kentucky a lot early in the year. I saw that game where Stein shut down #6 ranked Texas and Myles Turner. I tuned into Kentucky games to check out Towns when it was clear the Knicks would be terrible... in the early part of the season I was far more impressed by Stein. They used him on pick and rolls. A lot of college teams just gave up running their pick and roll play because Stein could harass it so well. By the tournament, Towns was clearly the more developed offensive player, but Stein was still put on the opposing PG a lot and used to shut down pick and roll play. I think honestly his defense is more effective guarding pick and rolls and as a weak side shot blocker, rather than guarding a burly post man one on one. But theoretically, you could put Monroe on the post player and let Stein roam for weakside blocks and put him on the pick and roll action at the top of the key, no matter who is running the pick and roll - even if it's not an opposing center. He can switch onto almost any PG in the NBA and cover him effectively, I'd bet. Maybe Wall gets by him, but the list of guys quicker than him is short.

I think Stein could have a similar impact to Nerlens Noel, honestly. Noel was supposed to have zero offensive game and put up similar numbers to Stein at Kentucky and he's very effective in the NBA. Noel is all over the court for Philly and changes their dynamic immediately.

I think the Ibaka comparisons are spot on, too. Ibaka used to be a liability offensively, but he developed that little mid-range jumper and he gets a lot of kickouts from Westbrook and Durant and nails them with consistency.

Thanks. So I wonder why Noels got pumped up to almost the #1 spot and WCS doesnt? Cause WCS stayed 3 years?

martin wrote:So who watched Stein all year? How would you qualify his defensive prowess in comparison to Okafor's offensive prowess?

IMO WCS would have a great impact on the team's defense and would actually enhance the offense with his activity and hustle. WCS can help apply great pressure on D. WCS gets steals which is a bit understated part of his game. Even when he gets beat he gets back into the play and can still get a hand on shots. His help D and recovery is great. He has full understanding of defensive principles. WCS will get back on D at a high level, which is important. He's fast enough down players on fast breaks.

I think WCS scores well enough without the ball that he shouldn't be a problem on that end. He has just enough ability to execute a basic Jump Hook and also face up and either drive or take the jumper. His detractors say he never showed this but that's not true. He may not have don't it enough but he did actually show he could make those kinds of plays. He was inconsistent and needed more refinement of those skills but he did flash the ability.

Okafor is a load down low and you can surely run an offense thru him in the post. IMO you MUST have shooting around him. He'll pass out of a double effectively. I think he'll develop his mid range jumper. I'm REALLY concerned with Okafor's effectiveness late in games. His inability to hit FT's could really be a problem. I'm concerned about his ability to give max effort on both ends. I think he'll gas out if he was put in a fast paced game and asked to give effort defensively.

Okafor is the better player in a vacuum, but it's really a lot closer than some would admit. A lot of what WCS does isn't as easy to quantify with stats. WCS often took away the PnR game of teams to the point where they stopped really trying to use that play. He turned away a lot of players going to the basket but those kinds of things don't really have a stat. WCS also came to the game later than most of the top players. He's just now really coming into a similar skill level as those who started earlier.

These numbers don't really do justice to either player but it's at least something to use as a gauge. These guys are complete opposite sides of the Spectrum as bigs.

     G ▾  PER   TS%   eFG%  3PAr  FTr  PProd ORB%  DRB%  TRB%  AST%  STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS  DWS  WS   WS/40  OBPM  DBPM  BPM
WCS  39   23.8  .588  .572  .000  .542  344  11.1  17.3  14.5  7.4   2.9  7.1  13.9  17.8  2.6  3.4  6.0  .239   4.7   10.0  14.7
OK4  38	  30.7	.641  .664  .000  .462	609  14.8  18.2  16.6  9.4   1.5  4.5  15.6  27.6  4.5	2.2  6.7  .235	 6.8   4.1   10.9

nixluva wrote:I think there's a better chance that WCS reaches his full potential than there is that he busts. Winslow is safe but I actually do have some issues with him. He was in a great situation in college. I don't know if he's Draymond Green, Jimmy Butler or just a guy who was able to take advantage of playing against slower players but won't have the same advantage at the next level. I don't see Winslow as having any distinct advantage physically in the NBA. He's just another wing at the NBA level IMO. He's not Elite Athletically at his position like WCS is. Wins will be facing the greatest collection of athletes he's ever seen at the NBA level. I'm not sure he's special at the next level. You can count on one hand the 7'ers who are at the level of WCS athletically.

I actually think winslow is the perfect player for teams that play small ball.....he can defend guys that are taller or bigger than him. But i dont know if he will be affective at SG.....vs PF where he can use his quickness against bigger guys. I like stein as well.....along with 5 other guys. So i guess the good news is that i will not be disappointed in our selection.

jbeachboy wrote:looks like they may trade the pick now

jbeachboy wrote:

nixluva wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:looks like they may trade the pick now

What makes you say that? I know there have been rumors but is there some new info you're basing this on?

bunch of new articles, draft rumors, real gm, have been mentioning, nuggets, lyles, kaminsky , just rumors for now, knicks dont like anyone past top 3 guys

I wouldn't put any faith in those rumors. It's not likely than any of those media outlets really knows what the Knicks are thinking internally. This is a very good draft and there are some quality players in the top 10. That said there is some chance that a team makes the Knicks an offer they can't refuse. Short of that I don't see them trading this high a pick. They'd have to receive greater value for doing something like that.

All it would take is for Philly to draft KrisP and that would set the stage for a lot of action with the Knicks pick at #4. The phones would light up like Times Square.

Draft Express current Mock

1.		Karl Towns	
PF/C (Kentucky - Freshman)	
19.5 years old | 7'0" | 248 lbs
2014-15 NCAA (39 GP)
  10.3 PPG  	  6.7 RPG  	  1.1 APG  	  31.9 PER  
2.		Jahlil Okafor	
C (Duke - Freshman)	
19.5 years old | 6'11" | 272 lbs
2014-15 NCAA (38 GP)
  17.3 PPG  	  8.6 RPG  	  1.3 APG  	  31.0 PER  
 
3.		Kristaps Porzingis	
PF (Sevilla - International)	
19.8 years old | 7'0" | 230 lbs
2014-15 Eurocup, ACB (50 GP)
  11.0 PPG  	  4.6 RPG  	  0.5 APG  	  20.6 PER  
 
4.		D'Angelo Russell	
PG/SG (Ohio State - Freshman)	
19.3 years old | 6'5" | 193 lbs
2014-15 NCAA (35 GP)
  19.3 PPG  	  5.7 RPG  	  5.0 APG  	  26.9 PER  
5.		Willie Cauley-Stein	
C (Kentucky - Junior)	
21.8 years old | 7'1" | 242 lbs
2014-15 NCAA (39 GP)
  8.9 PPG  	  6.4 RPG  	  1.0 APG  	  24.3 PER  
http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3dXbRXI8c

CrushAlot wrote:Celtic blog has a poll up asking fans what they would do if the Knicks traded them the 4th pick. They want Stein. 1800 votes so far. http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/6/19/8814817/nba-draft-hypothetical-who-would-you-pick-at-4-if-the-celtics-traded

It's crazy reading other team's fans coming up with possible trades with the Knicks. Some of the ideas weren't bad. They don't seem to have a problem "overpaying" for #4. One guy had both #16 n #33 2015 picks, 2016 1st and a player. In all honesty Boston has more picks than they know what to do with. I'm pretty sure Ainge will be calling to test the waters. He can really throw a lot of picks at Phil.