3G4G wrote:MVP Results of the Past 9-10yrs of Melo's career

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2012.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2011.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2010.html#mvp Melo finished 6th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2009.html#mvp Melo not on the list....

Billups finished 6th trolol you know the guy a couple of us said was better or more important than Melo this season but some rascals in this very thread tried to beg to differ. Just like a small few are saying Kidd is as impactful as Melo to this current team

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.html#mvp Melo finished 13th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2007.html#mvp Melo finished 15th

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2006.html#mvp Melo not on the list

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2005.html#mvp Melo not on the list

Camby finished 15th trolol you know Melo never played with anybody worthy while in Denver

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_2004.html#mvp Melo finished 14th

I see Melo by season's end finishing really no better than the 2010 season as 6th. Ironic analyst felt this was his was his best season as a player TEAM impact, which probably doesn't match up with what most fans felt was his best season

good research and great find on billups.. both of us were saying he was as important to that team than anyone, of course we felt the backlash.. haha

know what else I noticed that I mentioned before.. look who names shows up on that list quite a bit...

yep our very own, Amare!!!!! who I said when healthy is the best player on the knicks...

Melo sucks.

He's a cancer's cancer.

He's a blackhole, selfish, oversmiling, morbidly obese, non-dunking, youth, coach and happy team-killing douchebag.

I'd rather take Matt Fish, Greg Oden, Chris Andersen or even Eddie freakin Curry over this loser in the first round, loser in the WCF, game-has-past-him-by,19th-century-offensive blight on humanity.

The fact that some idiot in a Knicks uniform is averaging 20 and 10 is even mentioned as an MVP should result in lifetime banishment.

From life.

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've said this in other threads over the past two years:

Melo sucks.

He's a cancer's cancer.

He's a blackhole, selfish, oversmiling, morbidly obese, non-dunking, youth, coach and happy team-killing douchebag.

I'd rather take Matt Fish, Greg Oden, Chris Andersen or even Eddie freakin Curry over this loser in the first round, loser in the WCF, game-has-past-him-by,19th-century-offensive blight on humanity.

The fact that some idiot in a Knicks uniform is averaging 20 and 10 is even mentioned as an MVP should result in lifetime banishment.

From life.

More over the top lash out posting from you. What Knick is averaging 20/10? I believe you were trying to go improv here but why not at least hit on one good joke here?

Melo's game is archaic in nature

that type of posting has become typical... a bad attempt.... not funny, somewhat counfusing and as you said... a lot of over the top lashing out...

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've said this in other threads over the past two years:

Melo sucks.

He's a cancer's cancer.

He's a blackhole, selfish, oversmiling, morbidly obese, non-dunking, youth, coach and happy team-killing douchebag.

I'd rather take Matt Fish, Greg Oden, Chris Andersen or even Eddie freakin Curry over this loser in the first round, loser in the WCF, game-has-past-him-by,19th-century-offensive blight on humanity.

The fact that some idiot in a Knicks uniform is averaging 20 and 10 is even mentioned as an MVP should result in lifetime banishment.

From life.

More over the top lash out posting from you. What Knick is averaging 20/10? I believe you were trying to go improv here but why not at least hit on one good joke here?

Melo's game is archaic in nature

Typical somberism. Nothing is ever funny in somberland. Unless of course I could dredge up the Melo Groin injury thread. That was truly hilarious.

1) When all else fails, ply your statistical prowess. If he was averaging 20/10, you'd be telling me how meaningless that is because some other stat places him somewhere below Shandon Anderson historically. Don't forget, the magical "he makes no one better around him".

2) Yes, of course. Scoring has and always will be an archaic trait. We desperately need the new new. Until that's no longer new.

Hold on, 3G! A 4 or maybe even 7 game slide may be looming on the horizon! Life will be good again!

jrodmc wrote:

3G4G wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've said this in other threads over the past two years:

Melo sucks.

He's a cancer's cancer.

He's a blackhole, selfish, oversmiling, morbidly obese, non-dunking, youth, coach and happy team-killing douchebag.

I'd rather take Matt Fish, Greg Oden, Chris Andersen or even Eddie freakin Curry over this loser in the first round, loser in the WCF, game-has-past-him-by,19th-century-offensive blight on humanity.

The fact that some idiot in a Knicks uniform is averaging 20 and 10 is even mentioned as an MVP should result in lifetime banishment.

From life.

More over the top lash out posting from you. What Knick is averaging 20/10? I believe you were trying to go improv here but why not at least hit on one good joke here?

Melo's game is archaic in nature

Typical somberism. Nothing is ever funny in somberland. Unless of course I could dredge up the Melo Groin injury thread. That was truly hilarious.

1) When all else fails, ply your statistical prowess. If he was averaging 20/10, you'd be telling me how meaningless that is because some other stat places him somewhere below Shandon Anderson historically. Don't forget, the magical "he makes no one better around him".

2) Yes, of course. Scoring has and always will be an archaic trait. We desperately need the new new. Until that's no longer new.

Hold on, 3G! A 4 or maybe even 7 game slide may be looming on the horizon! Life will be good again!

I never laugh at player injuries even from players I don't particularly care for. Losing skids have never phased me as my ability to face reality concerning this team's season performances over the yrs has protected the ills. While they've had the personnel to be better, they always managed to fail. What we've sacrificed to be where we are.... expectations say this is what the results should be but reality is another story. My standards are always at an Apex but my expectations are always accurately tempered. 2 different subjects at hand possibly proving too overwhelming for some to grasp.

I've been wrong about other matters such as the Grizzlies(not the Laker trade but...) me thinking they'd plateau and start regressing, well they haven't showed signs of this and appear to be better than ever. I thought the Raptors would be a surprise team in the East along with Bucks, I was half wrong there too so far.

So this isn't some me against Melo at all costs hating simply to hate. I make my assessments and stick with them. I can admit to being wrong end results.

The Problem with you and the Motley Crue of Stooges you base the majority of everything off pure emotion and homerism. When facts are presented to you like they have over and over in this thread you get angry and start throwing temper tantrums, stomping your feet, pulling your hairs out, and gnash your teeth. Totally unnecessary

What the minority is trying to communicate to the masses....don't get ahead of yourself, try to be more objective, and stop going Stan Van Gundy in Melo threads.

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'd take Rondo over Carmelo even before they were ever born

Rondo's 44pt game performance vs Heat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carmelo's 42pt game performance against Celtics

Rondo in big games on TV and against us>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Melo does

This is fine.

But as of today, he's just not as valuable to his team as Carmelo has been to his.

now I would love to hear how you came to this conclusion...

Um, the standings?

lol.. we can argue that we are 9-4 because of jason kidd as well..

we are 1.5 games up on boston and haven't even played 20 games yet, not even close... so that has no bearing on who is more valuable at this point.. the records are pretty much identical..

As I said before, the MVP award cannot be won without the help of the team. I'll go even further and mention JR Smith, Rasheed Wallace, and Raymond Felton being a huge part of Carmelo being in the MVP hunt. But let's be realistic, Jason Kidd isn't the best player on the team lol. He's the smartest.

I've never said he's in the race because he's a one man show.

because this award is voted on by sportwriters and broadcasters you have to wonder how much stock to place in this award.

second you will notice there is no discernible pattern for who wins the award, which means that the criteria vary from person to person among the voters, rendering the award anything but objective.

third, there is no such thing as "best player" in a team sport, otherwise there would be a "best player award." but there isn't. best boxer, best tennis player, best golfer, best high jumper, yes.

you appear to have the matter backwards: it is usually the player perceived as making his teammates better that is more likely to win, than a player who depends on teammates to put up his numbers.

with this in mind carmelo has virtually zero chance of winning the mvp, even if you regard him as "the best player on the knicks."

No, you're wrong. Michal Jordan is a 5 time MVP, Tim Duncan is a 2 time MVP, and Kobe has won it once.

Those guys aren't known for making their teammates better. They won it because they were clearly the best players on their high winning teams. They dominated the league with their offensive abilities.

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd will ALWAYS make their teammates better, no matter how long they're in the league or how old they are.

Are they MVP candidates? No.

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'd take Rondo over Carmelo even before they were ever born

Rondo's 44pt game performance vs Heat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carmelo's 42pt game performance against Celtics

Rondo in big games on TV and against us>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Melo does

This is fine.

But as of today, he's just not as valuable to his team as Carmelo has been to his.

now I would love to hear how you came to this conclusion...

Um, the standings?

lol.. we can argue that we are 9-4 because of jason kidd as well..

we are 1.5 games up on boston and haven't even played 20 games yet, not even close... so that has no bearing on who is more valuable at this point.. the records are pretty much identical..

As I said before, the MVP award cannot be won without the help of the team. I'll go even further and mention JR Smith, Rasheed Wallace, and Raymond Felton being a huge part of Carmelo being in the MVP hunt. But let's be realistic, Jason Kidd isn't the best player on the team lol. He's the smartest.

I've never said he's in the race because he's a one man show.

because this award is voted on by sportwriters and broadcasters you have to wonder how much stock to place in this award.

second you will notice there is no discernible pattern for who wins the award, which means that the criteria vary from person to person among the voters, rendering the award anything but objective.

third, there is no such thing as "best player" in a team sport, otherwise there would be a "best player award." but there isn't. best boxer, best tennis player, best golfer, best high jumper, yes.

you appear to have the matter backwards: it is usually the player perceived as making his teammates better that is more likely to win, than a player who depends on teammates to put up his numbers.

with this in mind carmelo has virtually zero chance of winning the mvp, even if you regard him as "the best player on the knicks."

No, you're wrong. Michal Jordan is a 5 time MVP, Tim Duncan is a 2 time MVP, and Kobe has won it once.

Those guys aren't known for making their teammates better. They won it because they were clearly the best players on their high winning teams. They dominated the league with their offensive abilities.

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd will ALWAYS make their teammates better, no matter how long they're in the league or how old they are.

Are they MVP candidates? No.

No, you are wrong..

Jordan, Duncan and kobe were also all NBA defense players as well.... They also made their teamates better... kobe to a lesser extent than the other two which is why he probably only won it once despite being ,arguably the best player in the league for a good stretch..

And steve nash won back to back MVP awards and kidd came in a close second to duncan( most likely because of his off court problems) neither of those guys dominated with their offensive abilities... and duncan the year he won mvp he averaged 23ppg...

Steve Nash didn't win back to back MVPs because he makes his teammates better. That's just a very honorable attribute to his game. A requirement for winning the award does not require a player to make his teammates better.

Steve Nash won it because he was the best player on his team, and those two Suns Teams were 62-20 and 54-28.

You could be the most selfish player in the history of the game, and still win the award if your team has the highest number of wins.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'd take Rondo over Carmelo even before they were ever born

Rondo's 44pt game performance vs Heat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carmelo's 42pt game performance against Celtics

Rondo in big games on TV and against us>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Melo does

This is fine.

But as of today, he's just not as valuable to his team as Carmelo has been to his.

now I would love to hear how you came to this conclusion...

Um, the standings?

lol.. we can argue that we are 9-4 because of jason kidd as well..

we are 1.5 games up on boston and haven't even played 20 games yet, not even close... so that has no bearing on who is more valuable at this point.. the records are pretty much identical..

As I said before, the MVP award cannot be won without the help of the team. I'll go even further and mention JR Smith, Rasheed Wallace, and Raymond Felton being a huge part of Carmelo being in the MVP hunt. But let's be realistic, Jason Kidd isn't the best player on the team lol. He's the smartest.

I've never said he's in the race because he's a one man show.

because this award is voted on by sportwriters and broadcasters you have to wonder how much stock to place in this award.

second you will notice there is no discernible pattern for who wins the award, which means that the criteria vary from person to person among the voters, rendering the award anything but objective.

third, there is no such thing as "best player" in a team sport, otherwise there would be a "best player award." but there isn't. best boxer, best tennis player, best golfer, best high jumper, yes.

you appear to have the matter backwards: it is usually the player perceived as making his teammates better that is more likely to win, than a player who depends on teammates to put up his numbers.

with this in mind carmelo has virtually zero chance of winning the mvp, even if you regard him as "the best player on the knicks."

No, you're wrong. Michal Jordan is a 5 time MVP, Tim Duncan is a 2 time MVP, and Kobe has won it once.

Those guys aren't known for making their teammates better. They won it because they were clearly the best players on their high winning teams. They dominated the league with their offensive abilities.

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd will ALWAYS make their teammates better, no matter how long they're in the league or how old they are.

Are they MVP candidates? No.

No, you are wrong..

Jordan, Duncan and kobe were also all NBA defense players as well.... They also made their teamates better... kobe to a lesser extent than the other two which is why he probably only won it once despite being ,arguably the best player in the league for a good stretch..

And steve nash won back to back MVP awards and kidd came in a close second to duncan( most likely because of his off court problems) neither of those guys dominated with their offensive abilities... and duncan the year he won mvp he averaged 23ppg...

Steve Nash didn't win back to back MVPs because he makes his teammates better. That's just a very honorable attribute to his game. A requirement for winning the award does not require a player to make his teammates batter.

Steve Nash won it because he was the best player on his team, and those two Suns Teams were 62-20 and 54-28.

You could be the most selfish player in the history of the game, and still win the award if your team has the highest number of wins.

dk touched on this and he made a good point about the MVP criteria changing yr-to-yr and it has

It's not always about best record best player. You do have to have to be on a team with a good record but some MVPs have won without having the best record or some players have lost being on a team with the best record

Take for instance had Lebron stayed in Cleveland and their roster stayed relatively the same talentwise he would always receive the Top consideration because of the roster right next to his play. It's what he's doing in relation to the roster he has

This was the very reason Derrick Rose won it in 2010-2011

Steve Nash won in 2005-2006 but Detroit and Spurs had the better season records and guess what Billups finished 5th Duncan and Parker finished 8th and 9th respectively

Kobe won in 2007-2008 despite Boston and Detroit having better season records and guess what Detroit only had 1 candidate Rasheed who finished 15th and Garnett finished 3rd and Pierce finished 13th(the year Boston won it all and Pierce won Finals MVP)

I could list other examples but obviously you should be getting the point, MVP is a very ambiguous award which is why I tend to see it as probably the most overrated honor of all post season awards in the NBA

It would help if you shaped your arguments around without any agendas getting in the way. If it's about best player on a team with highest number of wins well Carmelo doesn't stand a chance. I'd wager we wouldn't finish in the Top 5 best record by season's end.

If this was the criteria then RECKLESSLY IRRESPONSIBLE creating a thread after 4gms played with 78 remaining

Melo is in the discussion like he has been in the past as are plenty other players but he has a heck of lot more work to do as does this team if we to win it outright and I mean a lot of work to do

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

dk7th wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

tkf wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'd take Rondo over Carmelo even before they were ever born

Rondo's 44pt game performance vs Heat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carmelo's 42pt game performance against Celtics

Rondo in big games on TV and against us>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anything Melo does

This is fine.

But as of today, he's just not as valuable to his team as Carmelo has been to his.

now I would love to hear how you came to this conclusion...

Um, the standings?

lol.. we can argue that we are 9-4 because of jason kidd as well..

we are 1.5 games up on boston and haven't even played 20 games yet, not even close... so that has no bearing on who is more valuable at this point.. the records are pretty much identical..

As I said before, the MVP award cannot be won without the help of the team. I'll go even further and mention JR Smith, Rasheed Wallace, and Raymond Felton being a huge part of Carmelo being in the MVP hunt. But let's be realistic, Jason Kidd isn't the best player on the team lol. He's the smartest.

I've never said he's in the race because he's a one man show.

because this award is voted on by sportwriters and broadcasters you have to wonder how much stock to place in this award.

second you will notice there is no discernible pattern for who wins the award, which means that the criteria vary from person to person among the voters, rendering the award anything but objective.

third, there is no such thing as "best player" in a team sport, otherwise there would be a "best player award." but there isn't. best boxer, best tennis player, best golfer, best high jumper, yes.

you appear to have the matter backwards: it is usually the player perceived as making his teammates better that is more likely to win, than a player who depends on teammates to put up his numbers.

with this in mind carmelo has virtually zero chance of winning the mvp, even if you regard him as "the best player on the knicks."

No, you're wrong. Michal Jordan is a 5 time MVP, Tim Duncan is a 2 time MVP, and Kobe has won it once.

Those guys aren't known for making their teammates better. They won it because they were clearly the best players on their high winning teams. They dominated the league with their offensive abilities.

Steve Nash and Jason Kidd will ALWAYS make their teammates better, no matter how long they're in the league or how old they are.

Are they MVP candidates? No.

jordan and duncan didn't make their teammates better? you're joking.

as i said it is really an arbitrary process, sometimes coinciding with reality and sometimes not. there has been increasing amounts of populist rationale combined with a bit of sentimentality.

nash won it twice for making his teammates so much better on offense that the voting bloc seemed to be able to look past his defensive liabilities.