CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

ALL TOP TIER PG's destroy each other.. what is your point?

Please show me videos of Deron Willians, Rondo and CP3 getting stripped by a simple 1v1 full court or half court press multiple times in the same game this past season. This is an extreme problem. The fact that you kids poo poo this is laughable and ridiculous.

extreme problem? other than that game vs miami, where else has that happened? I think the only thing here that is extreme, is your criticism of lin.. full sour grapes mode bro..

It would have been nice or a better gauge if Lin shot better than 34% against > .500 competition.

the most important stats is 8-1.. he saved the knicks season. he was dynamic and capture the NBA world.....

useless stats do you no favors here. .in the end, the key is to win, get your guys out on top.... that requires a lot of leadership.. which is why the knicks have stunk for years, no leadership, doesn't matter if you can dunk out of your mind, wear headbands or call yourself the "best pure scorer" rofl.. just win baby.. .win.. lin did that...

You always find a way to drag Melo into discussions that have nothing to do with him. No need to put one player down in order raise Lin up. BTW, speaking of just win and saving the season, despite all of Lin's heroics, the Knicks were still on the outside of the playoffs looking in until MDA stepped aside. After Lin and Stat got hurt it was Melo who led the Knicks down the stretch to the playoffs and pass the Bucks. But your agenda wont allow you to acknowledge that fact, huh?

IT WAS melo who admitted he didn't play hard under dantoni that got us in a hole that required lin's heroics to save the season.. no 8-1 and nothing else matters...

but your agenda won't let you acknowledge that fact, huh?

Melo said he tried to play harder especially on defense after the coaching change. He also asked the new coach to hold him accountable and when asked if the previous coach held players accountable he said, thats not his style in the same interview. I know those two sentences were analyzed to death. I think that there was more of an emphasis placed on defense and accountability after the coaching change. I also think Melo may have become a bit defeated under Mike. There was a ton of losing in the first 2/3 of the season, an attempt to play point forward etc. I think again with Melo the context needs to be conisdered.

Hate, racism, anti semitism and bigotry do not require context since there is none.

earthmansurfer wrote:Eyes don't lie. We saw something in that kid that we hadn't seen in a Knicks player in a LOOOOOOOONG time. It was special. It isn't worth breaking down into stats (thought they were very good). Lin had IT. All the hate and rationalization isn't going to take what we saw away. Break it down into stats, into logic, etc. Lin is special. And Dolan is a moron.

I'm all for talking stats and doing analysis, but there are some conversations in which you know beforehand you aren't changing anyone's mind no matter what you say right or how persuasive you are. It's just bizarre how I've never seen anything like this except when people talk about Lin. Even apparently obvious points can end up being polarizing and controversial.

limpidgimp wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Eyes don't lie. We saw something in that kid that we hadn't seen in a Knicks player in a LOOOOOOOONG time. It was special. It isn't worth breaking down into stats (thought they were very good). Lin had IT. All the hate and rationalization isn't going to take what we saw away. Break it down into stats, into logic, etc. Lin is special. And Dolan is a moron.

I feel the same way. But others who don't see that same quality, well, it's very unlikely you can change their minds by talking about it. In most such discussions, people stick to concrete things like stats and plays and so on because there's the assumption that that is the common language and shared stuff by which we can come together and converse about it reasonably, and persuade others, and acknowledge who is right and who is wrong. But there is a huge emotional component that is connected to the sense of seeing something special. All the stats aren't really the language to talk about it; it's just circles around without getting there. That's why I don't really get into the convincing game. I'm not trying to recreate my experience of it for another person, nor do I need the other person to confirm what I myself see.

I'm all for talking stats and doing analysis, but there are some conversations in which you know beforehand you aren't changing anyone's mind no matter what you say right or how persuasive you are. It's just bizarre how I've never seen anything like this except when people talk about Lin. Even apparently obvious points can end up being polarizing and controversial.

great post hit the nail on the head

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

ALL TOP TIER PG's destroy each other.. what is your point?

Please show me videos of Deron Willians, Rondo and CP3 getting stripped by a simple 1v1 full court or half court press multiple times in the same game this past season. This is an extreme problem. The fact that you kids poo poo this is laughable and ridiculous.

extreme problem? other than that game vs miami, where else has that happened? I think the only thing here that is extreme, is your criticism of lin.. full sour grapes mode bro..

It would have been nice or a better gauge if Lin shot better than 34% against > .500 competition.

the most important stats is 8-1.. he saved the knicks season. he was dynamic and capture the NBA world.....

useless stats do you no favors here. .in the end, the key is to win, get your guys out on top.... that requires a lot of leadership.. which is why the knicks have stunk for years, no leadership, doesn't matter if you can dunk out of your mind, wear headbands or call yourself the "best pure scorer" rofl.. just win baby.. .win.. lin did that...

Lin did that against shytty teams while he was still unknown. When he became known, he was below average. There are many reasons or contributors that were in play here so I am not judging him (yet). I would have liked him back to see how he might have developed but crowning him at this point or de-crowning him is silly. Was it magical? Certainly and I cannot remember a more magical 10 game stretch in any sport but he is at this point a VERY unknown commodity.

And, if you find a stat that displays a players ability to shine or not shine against the better competition useless then you are completely missing the boat and that is maybe why you never bring stats into your arguments.

For the most part, Lin appeared to play well verse most teams but Miami. I'll give him, or any player, that pass. I remember Stat and Melo having more bad games than Lin to be honest - it happens. Talk about no training camp, the kid had no anything before being thrown in there. When you see a young talent like Lin play and play EXTREMELY well as a rookie, you can't overlook that - and he is playing a very difficult position at that.

Man, after suffering through so many years as a Knicks fan, I find it hard to believe that so many people are not talking about the specialness he brought - making this into a mechanistic argument that misses so much and also avoids the obvious. You can't quantify special.

This is real simple:

Eyes don't lie. We saw something in that kid that we hadn't seen in a Knicks player in a LOOOOOOOONG time. It was special. It isn't worth breaking down into stats (thought they were very good). Lin had IT. All the hate and rationalization isn't going to take what we saw away. Break it down into stats, into logic, etc. Lin is special. And Dolan is a moron.

The key word here is "appeared". And you mentioned Melo - that you "remembered" that he had "more bad games".

Lin shot 34% against > .500 competion while Melo shot 46%.

I know many do not care for stats, especially when what they are looking at "appears" to be magical. I understand this concept/argument and used it many times in my discussion with Bonn1997. However, being fair and balanced, it can't be discounted since stats don't lie.

While I openly admitted to my magical feeling with Lin during the Linsanity stretch, the stats cannot be discounted, especially such an important one. Lin appeared to play well against the teams other than Miami however, that was not the case an appearances and magic can be misleading.

One has to be open minded in their overall assessment and not use emotion as a gauge.

While Lin might have a big upside, he remains unproven. He will have this season to prove himself so we will certainly see shortly if he can be a consistent good player.

My take does not belittle what he has done.

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

ALL TOP TIER PG's destroy each other.. what is your point?

Please show me videos of Deron Willians, Rondo and CP3 getting stripped by a simple 1v1 full court or half court press multiple times in the same game this past season. This is an extreme problem. The fact that you kids poo poo this is laughable and ridiculous.

extreme problem? other than that game vs miami, where else has that happened? I think the only thing here that is extreme, is your criticism of lin.. full sour grapes mode bro..

It would have been nice or a better gauge if Lin shot better than 34% against > .500 competition.

the most important stats is 8-1.. he saved the knicks season. he was dynamic and capture the NBA world.....

useless stats do you no favors here. .in the end, the key is to win, get your guys out on top.... that requires a lot of leadership.. which is why the knicks have stunk for years, no leadership, doesn't matter if you can dunk out of your mind, wear headbands or call yourself the "best pure scorer" rofl.. just win baby.. .win.. lin did that...

Lin did that against shytty teams while he was still unknown. When he became known, he was below average. There are many reasons or contributors that were in play here so I am not judging him (yet). I would have liked him back to see how he might have developed but crowning him at this point or de-crowning him is silly. Was it magical? Certainly and I cannot remember a more magical 10 game stretch in any sport but he is at this point a VERY unknown commodity.

And, if you find a stat that displays a players ability to shine or not shine against the better competition useless then you are completely missing the boat and that is maybe why you never bring stats into your arguments.

For the most part, Lin appeared to play well verse most teams but Miami. I'll give him, or any player, that pass. I remember Stat and Melo having more bad games than Lin to be honest - it happens. Talk about no training camp, the kid had no anything before being thrown in there. When you see a young talent like Lin play and play EXTREMELY well as a rookie, you can't overlook that - and he is playing a very difficult position at that.

Man, after suffering through so many years as a Knicks fan, I find it hard to believe that so many people are not talking about the specialness he brought - making this into a mechanistic argument that misses so much and also avoids the obvious. You can't quantify special.

This is real simple:

Eyes don't lie. We saw something in that kid that we hadn't seen in a Knicks player in a LOOOOOOOONG time. It was special. It isn't worth breaking down into stats (thought they were very good). Lin had IT. All the hate and rationalization isn't going to take what we saw away. Break it down into stats, into logic, etc. Lin is special. And Dolan is a moron.

The key word here is "appeared". And you mentioned Melo - that you "remembered" that he had "more bad games".

Lin shot 34% against > .500 competion while Melo shot 46%.

I know many do not care for stats, especially when what they are looking at "appears" to be magical. I understand this concept/argument and used it many times in my discussion with Bonn1997. However, being fair and balanced, it can't be discounted since stats don't lie.

While I openly admitted to my magical feeling with Lin during the Linsanity stretch, the stats cannot be discounted, especially such an important one. Lin appeared to play well against the teams other than Miami however, that was not the case an appearances and magic can be misleading.

One has to be open minded in their overall assessment and not use emotion as a gauge.

While Lin might have a big upside, he remains unproven. He will have this season to prove himself so we will certainly see shortly if he can be a consistent good player.

My take does not belittle what he has done.

carmelo's playoff record 16-36

can you win... that is what I am concerned with... if you shoot 34% against above .500 comp but still win, then that is all that matters..

Nice. Winning is about your team, you need to play well to help with that. But I am sure you know that even with your blind hate.

It's nice to be able to choose when to be blind.

la la land must be a fun place. I need to take an excursion ... :-)

tkf wrote:

Uptown wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

ALL TOP TIER PG's destroy each other.. what is your point?

Please show me videos of Deron Willians, Rondo and CP3 getting stripped by a simple 1v1 full court or half court press multiple times in the same game this past season. This is an extreme problem. The fact that you kids poo poo this is laughable and ridiculous.

extreme problem? other than that game vs miami, where else has that happened? I think the only thing here that is extreme, is your criticism of lin.. full sour grapes mode bro..

It would have been nice or a better gauge if Lin shot better than 34% against > .500 competition.

the most important stats is 8-1.. he saved the knicks season. he was dynamic and capture the NBA world.....

useless stats do you no favors here. .in the end, the key is to win, get your guys out on top.... that requires a lot of leadership.. which is why the knicks have stunk for years, no leadership, doesn't matter if you can dunk out of your mind, wear headbands or call yourself the "best pure scorer" rofl.. just win baby.. .win.. lin did that...

You always find a way to drag Melo into discussions that have nothing to do with him. No need to put one player down in order raise Lin up. BTW, speaking of just win and saving the season, despite all of Lin's heroics, the Knicks were still on the outside of the playoffs looking in until MDA stepped aside. After Lin and Stat got hurt it was Melo who led the Knicks down the stretch to the playoffs and pass the Bucks. But your agenda wont allow you to acknowledge that fact, huh?

IT WAS melo who admitted he didn't play hard under dantoni that got us in a hole that required lin's heroics to save the season.. no 8-1 and nothing else matters...

but your agenda won't let you acknowledge that fact, huh?

And I have the agenda?! After the 8-1 run, and dust settled, we were still under .500 and still behind the Bucks for the last playoff spot. We leap-frogged the Bucks and Sixers after MDA stepoped down, Woodson tookover and put more emphasis on the defensive end and holding the players accountable. Lin played well under Woodson, got hurt along with Stat and we still secured a playoff spot with Melo leading the way. TKF, whats wrong with admitting that? its not a knock on ya boy Lin or god-forbid giving kudos to Melo. Its what happened in reality. But unfortunately, you dont deal in reality since you said, "8-1 and nothing else matters."

You make it seem like once Lin went down, you wasn't trying to see or hear about any success for the Knicks especially with the prince of darkness himself, Melo leading the way.

3G4G wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Watch out for the Nets. While Dolan was busy crying and not bring back Lin the Nets added a lot of talent. Now I expect the Knicks to finish ahead of them in the standings but not by much. Neither team is built for a deep playoff run. Knicks certainly had enough talent with the pieces they added until Dolan let Lin go. Pains me to say it but it is the truth. Championships for the next 3yrs will be between LA, Miami and OKC. Not what Knicks fans expected after a dozen years of futility after Ewing was traded. Not what we had in mind when we were going hard after Lebron. In the past I've been overly positive about the Knicks situation but the realization has set in after the Lin Fiasco that we will never be a legitimate title contender for as long as Dolan is owner. In 3yrs we can get rid of expiring contracts for the next eddy curry, steve francis, stephon marbury, tim thomas, mo taylor, jerome james. Catch my drift? Maybe we can contend in 30+ years when Dolan's health is in question. Thats pretty uplifting to me that I may still see a Knicks chammpionship if im lucky to last into my 60s

The Nets are going to be a problem not in New York but in the NBA in general

They've had one of the better off-seasons by a wide margin especially taking into consideration the excuses to follow the current roster

They'll have

D-Will
Joe
Crash
Hump
Lopez

Bench

Watson
Brooks
Blatche
Evans
Tele
Taylor
Bogans
Stack

IR
Donte Greene

And could possibly sign Childress today or tomorrow

for a "full season" a "full camp" a "time to gel" a "feel each other out" a "familiarity and chemistry"

Boy watch out

Nets sign Childress....

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8367523/source-brooklyn-nets-josh-childress-agree-one-year-deal

Prok is getting it doneyan

gunsnewing wrote:Kudos for being the first to admit Lin played well under Woodson. There is a notion that MDA made Jeremy Lin. Facts are always welcomed

Lin played OK under Woodson. He had good games as well as bad games but ignoring that MDA's system benfited him is ignoring the obvious. It's no secret that MDA's system is a PG's wet dream. It's not a knock on Lin it's just stating the obvious. I like Lin and wanted him back but can understand why the Knicks didn't match. However, this shouldn't label me as a homer, fanboy or kool aid drinker.

The story was great! Here comes an undrafted player, a guy who played in the NBDL and was cut twice only to lead the Knicks to a 8-1 run. I remember when he dropped the triple double in the NBDL and people here were going back and forth on whether or not he would be the answer for us at the point.

However, people are going to extremes due to the emotional attachment. Numbers never tell the whole story but here's his number under Woody;

28 MPG
13.2 PPG
5.4 ASTS
3.7 TO's
1 STL
FT% 94%
FG% 42%
3PT% 29%

I posted the above numbers in another thread a while back and was told it was unfair to judge him based on only 7 games but many here judge Lin based on the 8-1 run. The fact remains that no one knows the player this kid really is but we will all find out soon enough.

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

ALL TOP TIER PG's destroy each other.. what is your point?

Please show me videos of Deron Willians, Rondo and CP3 getting stripped by a simple 1v1 full court or half court press multiple times in the same game this past season. This is an extreme problem. The fact that you kids poo poo this is laughable and ridiculous.

extreme problem? other than that game vs miami, where else has that happened? I think the only thing here that is extreme, is your criticism of lin.. full sour grapes mode bro..

It would have been nice or a better gauge if Lin shot better than 34% against > .500 competition.

the most important stats is 8-1.. he saved the knicks season. he was dynamic and capture the NBA world.....

useless stats do you no favors here. .in the end, the key is to win, get your guys out on top.... that requires a lot of leadership.. which is why the knicks have stunk for years, no leadership, doesn't matter if you can dunk out of your mind, wear headbands or call yourself the "best pure scorer" rofl.. just win baby.. .win.. lin did that...

Lin did that against shytty teams while he was still unknown. When he became known, he was below average. There are many reasons or contributors that were in play here so I am not judging him (yet). I would have liked him back to see how he might have developed but crowning him at this point or de-crowning him is silly. Was it magical? Certainly and I cannot remember a more magical 10 game stretch in any sport but he is at this point a VERY unknown commodity.

And, if you find a stat that displays a players ability to shine or not shine against the better competition useless then you are completely missing the boat and that is maybe why you never bring stats into your arguments.

For the most part, Lin appeared to play well verse most teams but Miami. I'll give him, or any player, that pass. I remember Stat and Melo having more bad games than Lin to be honest - it happens. Talk about no training camp, the kid had no anything before being thrown in there. When you see a young talent like Lin play and play EXTREMELY well as a rookie, you can't overlook that - and he is playing a very difficult position at that.

Man, after suffering through so many years as a Knicks fan, I find it hard to believe that so many people are not talking about the specialness he brought - making this into a mechanistic argument that misses so much and also avoids the obvious. You can't quantify special.

This is real simple:

Eyes don't lie. We saw something in that kid that we hadn't seen in a Knicks player in a LOOOOOOOONG time. It was special. It isn't worth breaking down into stats (thought they were very good). Lin had IT. All the hate and rationalization isn't going to take what we saw away. Break it down into stats, into logic, etc. Lin is special. And Dolan is a moron.

The key word here is "appeared". And you mentioned Melo - that you "remembered" that he had "more bad games".

Lin shot 34% against > .500 competion while Melo shot 46%.

I know many do not care for stats, especially when what they are looking at "appears" to be magical. I understand this concept/argument and used it many times in my discussion with Bonn1997. However, being fair and balanced, it can't be discounted since stats don't lie.

While I openly admitted to my magical feeling with Lin during the Linsanity stretch, the stats cannot be discounted, especially such an important one. Lin appeared to play well against the teams other than Miami however, that was not the case an appearances and magic can be misleading.

One has to be open minded in their overall assessment and not use emotion as a gauge.

While Lin might have a big upside, he remains unproven. He will have this season to prove himself so we will certainly see shortly if he can be a consistent good player.

My take does not belittle what he has done.

carmelo's playoff record 16-36

can you win... that is what I am concerned with... if you shoot 34% against above .500 comp but still win, then that is all that matters..

Nice. Winning is about your team, you need to play well to help with that. But I am sure you know that even with your blind hate.

It's nice to be able to choose when to be blind.

la la land must be a fun place. I need to take an excursion ... :-)

16-36 bro.. nothing more to say...

Shocking that you have nothing more to say!

How did Melo play in those 36 losses?

The fact of the matter is that the game of basketball will always and forever be a team sport. Players have great games and lose but the loss comes as a team not as an individual. Lossing a game does not make the player who played a great game a loser. Just means that the player played well but the team didn't. Nothing more nothing less.

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Kudos for being the first to admit Lin played well under Woodson. There is a notion that MDA made Jeremy Lin. Facts are always welcomed

Lin played OK under Woodson. He had good games as well as bad games but ignoring that MDA's system benfited him is ignoring the obvious. It's no secret that MDA's system is a PG's wet dream. It's not a knock on Lin it's just stating the obvious. I like Lin and wanted him back but can understand why the Knicks didn't match. However, this shouldn't label me as a homer, fanboy or kool aid drinker.

The story was great! Here comes an undrafted player, a guy who played in the NBDL and was cut twice only to lead the Knicks to a 8-1 run. I remember when he dropped the triple double in the NBDL and people here were going back and forth on whether or not he would be the answer for us at the point.

However, people are going to extremes due to the emotional attachment. Numbers never tell the whole story but here's his number under Woody;

28 MPG
13.2 PPG
5.4 ASTS
3.7 TO's
1 STL
FT% 94%
FG% 42%
3PT% 29%

I posted the above numbers in another thread a while back and was told it was unfair to judge him based on only 7 games but many here judge Lin based on the 8-1 run. The fact remains that no one knows the player this kid really is but we will all find out soon enough.

it would be interesting to see if anyone else numbers went down under woodson, the guy is not an offensive friendly coach unless you love to iso(which I can assume that melos number went up under "woody")..

that should not take away from what lin has done... woodson is not a good offensive coach at all if you ask me....

Actually, Melo's numbers went down under Woody until Lin and STAT went down. STAT's numbers were better under Woody until he got injured.

Lin's numbers went down under MDA after the Linsanity run as well but people don't want to hear it.

I think our offense will be middle of the pack this year but our defense will be top 5.

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

ALL TOP TIER PG's destroy each other.. what is your point?

Please show me videos of Deron Willians, Rondo and CP3 getting stripped by a simple 1v1 full court or half court press multiple times in the same game this past season. This is an extreme problem. The fact that you kids poo poo this is laughable and ridiculous.

extreme problem? other than that game vs miami, where else has that happened? I think the only thing here that is extreme, is your criticism of lin.. full sour grapes mode bro..

It would have been nice or a better gauge if Lin shot better than 34% against > .500 competition.

the most important stats is 8-1.. he saved the knicks season. he was dynamic and capture the NBA world.....

useless stats do you no favors here. .in the end, the key is to win, get your guys out on top.... that requires a lot of leadership.. which is why the knicks have stunk for years, no leadership, doesn't matter if you can dunk out of your mind, wear headbands or call yourself the "best pure scorer" rofl.. just win baby.. .win.. lin did that...

Lin did that against shytty teams while he was still unknown. When he became known, he was below average. There are many reasons or contributors that were in play here so I am not judging him (yet). I would have liked him back to see how he might have developed but crowning him at this point or de-crowning him is silly. Was it magical? Certainly and I cannot remember a more magical 10 game stretch in any sport but he is at this point a VERY unknown commodity.

And, if you find a stat that displays a players ability to shine or not shine against the better competition useless then you are completely missing the boat and that is maybe why you never bring stats into your arguments.

For the most part, Lin appeared to play well verse most teams but Miami. I'll give him, or any player, that pass. I remember Stat and Melo having more bad games than Lin to be honest - it happens. Talk about no training camp, the kid had no anything before being thrown in there. When you see a young talent like Lin play and play EXTREMELY well as a rookie, you can't overlook that - and he is playing a very difficult position at that.

Man, after suffering through so many years as a Knicks fan, I find it hard to believe that so many people are not talking about the specialness he brought - making this into a mechanistic argument that misses so much and also avoids the obvious. You can't quantify special.

This is real simple:

Eyes don't lie. We saw something in that kid that we hadn't seen in a Knicks player in a LOOOOOOOONG time. It was special. It isn't worth breaking down into stats (thought they were very good). Lin had IT. All the hate and rationalization isn't going to take what we saw away. Break it down into stats, into logic, etc. Lin is special. And Dolan is a moron.

The key word here is "appeared". And you mentioned Melo - that you "remembered" that he had "more bad games".

Lin shot 34% against > .500 competion while Melo shot 46%.

I know many do not care for stats, especially when what they are looking at "appears" to be magical. I understand this concept/argument and used it many times in my discussion with Bonn1997. However, being fair and balanced, it can't be discounted since stats don't lie.

While I openly admitted to my magical feeling with Lin during the Linsanity stretch, the stats cannot be discounted, especially such an important one. Lin appeared to play well against the teams other than Miami however, that was not the case an appearances and magic can be misleading.

One has to be open minded in their overall assessment and not use emotion as a gauge.

While Lin might have a big upside, he remains unproven. He will have this season to prove himself so we will certainly see shortly if he can be a consistent good player.

My take does not belittle what he has done.

carmelo's playoff record 16-36

can you win... that is what I am concerned with... if you shoot 34% against above .500 comp but still win, then that is all that matters..

Nice. Winning is about your team, you need to play well to help with that. But I am sure you know that even with your blind hate.

It's nice to be able to choose when to be blind.

la la land must be a fun place. I need to take an excursion ... :-)

16-36 bro.. nothing more to say...

Shocking that you have nothing more to say!

How did Melo play in those 36 losses?

The fact of the matter is that the game of basketball will always and forever be a team sport. Players have great games and lose but the loss comes as a team not as an individual. Lossing a game does not make the player who played a great game a loser. Just means that the player played well but the team didn't. Nothing more nothing less.

no it is not shocking, that is my point.. sometimes stats like shooting .34% vs teams above .500 don't tell the whole story.. lin was a catalyst, he was a playmaker and a leader on the floor.... and he showed signs of being a winner, regardless of how well he shot...

doesn't matter how carmelo played in those 36 losses,if he played well and still went 16-36 is that any better than playing bad in those losses.... maybe his style of play just doesn't produce winning ball.. that is the key.

Maybe, just maybe Melo's record was indicative of the teams he played on.

There is no doubt that Lin has good qualities as a player but also has deficiencies as a player.

lin has some improving to do, no one denies that. what infuriates me with knicks fans is now that he is gone, all of a sudden lin wasn't a good player, the knicks are now financially responsible, dolan and "grunny".. LOL.. are geniuses, and what we saw with lin was an aberration because teams like the lakers who use to just kick our asses on national TV were not prepared for lin.... that is a joke..

as far as melo, I am tired of the excuses, it is always some other reason as to his failures.. very tiring...