martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:Ultimate glue guy?

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https://www.twitter.com/nba_newyork/status/1749990345645998548

They should run some plays for him

They do: it’s called “Score Quickly” so they can get back to OG playing defense.

They run the same play for Josh Hart too 😂

As for blowing off the Rozier trade as no big deal? It might be. He is avg. 23 pts per game. Cost them nothing but a protected 1st and Lowrey who was not in the plan going forward. Great move. Does it execute? So many things have to line up but Im not looking at his Boston days, that was years ago. His size? His defense has improved and we all know Spo will demand it. His numbers will drop because he is on a better team. So that Metric will be lost. Its the Fucking Heat and while not everything they do turns to gold, I sure as hell won’t dismiss it. They are purposeful in their moves and the cred to gain benefit of the doubt.

nycericanguy wrote:I still would have rather built around RJ & Brunson vs Randle.

Its been a great 10-2 stretch but i'm not so sure we don't have a similar stretch with this schedule anyway.

Still not a huge fan of the trade, i understand it, but RJ is showing what he can do in a more free flowing offense. Maybe he reverts, who knows, but he was a workhorse and a hard worker and he was huge in the 1st round against CLE.

We went from having FOUR dependable scorers/creators to just two, and we are too reliant on Brunson more than ever now. Ultimately unless there is a follow up move this team is really lacking a 3rd scorer/creator right now. So until then the trade doesn't make sense to me.

Hard disagree. Do you recall how bad our defense was trending? We are now top 10 on both ends and one spark plug scorer away, with plenty of options on the market.

RJ will have a hard time ever doing what Randle is currently doing on a nightly basis, warts and all. Him and Brunson are legitimately a top 5-7 duo this year. It's not sustainable to rely on them this heavily forever, but we aren't done yet and have plenty of avenues to bolster the scoring help.

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I still would have rather built around RJ & Brunson vs Randle.

Its been a great 10-2 stretch but i'm not so sure we don't have a similar stretch with this schedule anyway.

Still not a huge fan of the trade, i understand it, but RJ is showing what he can do in a more free flowing offense. Maybe he reverts, who knows, but he was a workhorse and a hard worker and he was huge in the 1st round against CLE.

We went from having FOUR dependable scorers/creators to just two, and we are too reliant on Brunson more than ever now. Ultimately unless there is a follow up move this team is really lacking a 3rd scorer/creator right now. So until then the trade doesn't make sense to me.

Hard disagree. Do you recall how bad our defense was trending? We are now top 10 on both ends and one spark plug scorer away, with plenty of options on the market.

RJ will have a hard time ever doing what Randle is currently doing on a nightly basis, warts and all. Him and Brunson are legitimately a top 5-7 duo this year. It's not sustainable to rely on them this heavily forever, but we aren't done yet and have plenty of avenues to bolster the scoring help.

we weren't defending well no, but even good defensives teams have bad stretches, happened last year too. We had defensive players who can defend.

like i said it doesn't make sense until we fill the gaping hole left. if there are plenty of options it shouldn't be hard.

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Opponent scoring totals since OG trade, 10-2, we are either ranked 1st or 2nd on D in this stretch I believe. Everything about this team besides TO's has improved. This is despite a huge scoring hole on the bench which we will fix I'm sure.

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DLeethal wrote:Opponent scoring totals in 13 games leading to OG trade. We were 5-8 and I believe ranked dead last in defense over this stretch. Our season was slipping away fast IMO. I was sounding the alarm in here every game whether we won or lost. We were pretty close to becoming the Hawks or any other team that can't guard anybody and therefore plays well beneath their perceived talent level.

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Opponent scoring totals since OG trade, 10-2, we are either ranked 1st or 2nd on D in this stretch I believe. Everything about this team besides TO's has improved. This is despite a huge scoring hole on the bench which we will fix I'm sure.

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you cant ignore that we had a BRUTAL schedule early on though, and have since had a much easier schedules not only in terms of SOS but we are playing what 12 of 14 at home now?

This team was going to go on a run regardless, not a slight to OG but we were sitting at 17-13 when that trade was made despite having had a BRUTAL mostly on the road schedule, including 2 extra games against MIL and BOS because of the IST.

now don't get me wrong, OG is a menace on D and has made us better on that end. But I don't think he changes our ceiling unless we fill the void we created. RJ and IQ were a huge reason why our 2nd unit was so dominant. We gave TOR a whole starting backcourt age 23.

OG helps us but I can totally see this blowing up and RJ having a Lauri type of resurgence, IQ being a legit 20/5/5 PG, OG missing 20 games a year and not raising our ceiling.

DJM would potentially solve alot, but Leon tends to play it too safe with trades.

DLeethal wrote:Whether you like it or not, a player like OG was the biggest missing piece for this team between Brunson and Randle. If you think we should have kept RJ or Randle, a guy like OG was still a requirement. He's the best in the business at what he does, and a highly coveted mold of player every team wants. He fits like a glove here.

as great as Randle has been I dont think we can ever trust him against tight defenses, he's just too out of control at times.

I definitely would have preferred moving Randle tho I understand TOR would not have wanted him.

OG is a great fit but to me a missing piece raised your ceiling and I don't think OG does with what we gave up.

nycericanguy wrote:I still would have rather built around RJ & Brunson vs Randle.

Its been a great 10-2 stretch but i'm not so sure we don't have a similar stretch with this schedule anyway.

Still not a huge fan of the trade, i understand it, but RJ is showing what he can do in a more free flowing offense. Maybe he reverts, who knows, but he was a workhorse and a hard worker and he was huge in the 1st round against CLE.

We went from having FOUR dependable scorers/creators to just two, and we are too reliant on Brunson more than ever now. Ultimately unless there is a follow up move this team is really lacking a 3rd scorer/creator right now. So until then the trade doesn't make sense to me.

Your not entirely wrong but we still have alot of pulp to make more trades this year or next.
Toronto is now centered around Barnes, RJ and IQ to carry the scoring. They will put up good numbers this season and I doubt they make any noise given the roster moves. This will take a few years to look back and see how they grew.
Money mattered with IQ salary demands going forward and Brunson ahead of him. Im a big RJ fan but he is a finisher and one I think gets better. But its out of balance when you have 3 on floor. The ball is moving much better now and that should get better. Randle is pasisng far more.
Relient on our stars too much? Don’t all teams also? I hear you. BUt…..its a thing.
OG is very unique skill set player and still has one more level to go on offense. Not sure he gets there, but its ok. He does what is needed on a particular play or night.
Raptors season looks about over from what I am seeing.
BTW, Indy made a really good trade and we should fear them.
Miami with Rozier will help.
Leon knows what is needed for kNincks. Issue is the price willing to pay.

nycericanguy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I still would have rather built around RJ & Brunson vs Randle.

Its been a great 10-2 stretch but i'm not so sure we don't have a similar stretch with this schedule anyway.

Still not a huge fan of the trade, i understand it, but RJ is showing what he can do in a more free flowing offense. Maybe he reverts, who knows, but he was a workhorse and a hard worker and he was huge in the 1st round against CLE.

We went from having FOUR dependable scorers/creators to just two, and we are too reliant on Brunson more than ever now. Ultimately unless there is a follow up move this team is really lacking a 3rd scorer/creator right now. So until then the trade doesn't make sense to me.

It was 3 on 5 on offense, before the trade. With OG, DDV, and iHart starting. Its 5 on 5. Everybody is chipping in. That "free flowing offense"? You're looking at it.

Ihart has nothing to do with the trade though, he was starting before the trade as well with Mitch out.

you could say it was 4 on 5, but 3 on 5? RJ was huge in many games for us.

Also Mitch isn't a 0 on offense at all, he creates alot of vertical spacing and 2nd possessions and we value that greatly.

My point is that you are talking about RJ leaving for the type of offense, you are now seeing in NY in part because he is gone. RJ is a head down, bully ball scorer, which doesnt fit with two ball domimant players like JB and Randle. It meant few looks for the SG and Center. Look at how DDV's game emerged as soon as RJ was gone. iHart is getting more touches as well because OG and DDV play better off the ball, and are more willing passers.

RJ's game took a big leap, when he learned how to get to the rim from different angles, and use the glass. But it wasnt enough to paper over the fact that it was a bad fit. We lost a 20pt game scorer, and got back a defensive catalyst, who doesnt need the ball as much as RJ. Which allows more starters to chip in.

We are beating teams with lousy bench production, for the most part. The starting lineup is fine. The bench is now job one.

nycericanguy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I still would have rather built around RJ & Brunson vs Randle.

Its been a great 10-2 stretch but i'm not so sure we don't have a similar stretch with this schedule anyway.

Still not a huge fan of the trade, i understand it, but RJ is showing what he can do in a more free flowing offense. Maybe he reverts, who knows, but he was a workhorse and a hard worker and he was huge in the 1st round against CLE.

We went from having FOUR dependable scorers/creators to just two, and we are too reliant on Brunson more than ever now. Ultimately unless there is a follow up move this team is really lacking a 3rd scorer/creator right now. So until then the trade doesn't make sense to me.

It was 3 on 5 on offense, before the trade. With OG, DDV, and iHart starting. Its 5 on 5. Everybody is chipping in. That "free flowing offense"? You're looking at it.

Ihart has nothing to do with the trade though, he was starting before the trade as well with Mitch out.

you could say it was 4 on 5, but 3 on 5? RJ was huge in many games for us.

Also Mitch isn't a 0 on offense at all, he creates alot of vertical spacing and 2nd possessions and we value that greatly.

My point is that you are talking about RJ leaving for the type of offense, you are now seeing in NY in part because he is gone. RJ is a head down, bully ball scorer, which doesnt fit with two ball domimant players like JB and Randle. It meant few looks for the SG and Center. Look at how DDV's game emerged as soon as RJ was gone. iHart is getting more touches as well because OG and DDV play better off the ball, and are more willing passers.

RJ's game took a big leap, when he learned how to get to the rim from different angles, and use the glass. But it wasnt enough to paper over the fact that it was a bad fit. We lost a 20pt game scorer, and got back a defensive catalyst, who doesnt need the ball as much as RJ. Which allows more starters to chip in.

We are beating teams with lousy bench production, for thw most part. The starting lineup is fine. The bench is now job one.

our offensive rating has been roughly the same with OG, 119 vs 118. But again SOS is a huge factor there. I don't see our offense as better at all right now. Alot was made of RJ not fitting but our starting lineup with those 3 was pretty damn good even if not ideal.

our defense has made a huge leap no doubt.

Stopping 5 guys is a lot harder than stopping 3. In the playoffs, thats a recipe for an early exit.

DDV and iHart are playing better since RJ left. Because he was a ball dominant player who didnt leave enough touches for the other two. Ball movement is better, we rocketed to one of the best defenses in the league. We're less predictable. The only real downside is not having IQ's bench production.