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KP About to go to Dallas
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martin
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2/1/2019  4:52 PM
smackeddog wrote:
technomaster wrote:So I bet KP’s convo with the team went down like this:

The team had a trade lined up with the Mavs and they asked KP point blank, saying that they need assurances that he’s in for the long haul. They may have even said you could be with Doncic in Dallas, or you could be the man here in NY.

KP probably flinched. Deal done.

I must admit, I do enjoy a juice card fail, that brings someone back down to earth. Doubt KP and Janis had anticipated Perry moving so swiftly, him, mills and Fiz had been probably itching to give them both the middle finger after having to grovel for months for no reward.

hahahaha Juice Card Fail, I like that

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CrushAlot
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2/1/2019  5:13 PM
Nate Duncan liked the trade more for the Knicks and called the move, ‘visionary’. Danny Leroux also thought the Knicks got the better deal but was not as out spoken. Kevin O’Connor said the Knicks now have a war chest with 7 draft picks in five years and talked about the Knicks having a better chance of getting A.D. and could possibly land KD, Kyrie and AD. He also talked about if the Knicks did not sign anyone they would have so much flexibility with cap space and draft picks. I want to listen to a few more podcasts over the weekend but what I have heard has been very positive.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
StarksEwing1
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2/1/2019  5:27 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Nate Duncan liked the trade more for the Knicks and called the move, ‘visionary’. Danny Leroux also thought the Knicks got the better deal but was not as out spoken. Kevin O’Connor said the Knicks now have a war chest with 7 draft picks in five years and talked about the Knicks having a better chance of getting A.D. and could possibly land KD, Kyrie and AD. He also talked about if the Knicks did not sign anyone they would have so much flexibility with cap space and draft picks. I want to listen to a few more podcasts over the weekend but what I have heard has been very positive.
when you look at it logically without all the noise it makes sense. They wanted KP to be apart of it but KP was negatively influence by his brother. He also was trying to sabotage us by telling players not to come here. We are loaded with picks,cap room,and young pieces. We can go in many directions and still succeed
Cartman718
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2/1/2019  5:33 PM
martin wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
technomaster wrote:So I bet KP’s convo with the team went down like this:

The team had a trade lined up with the Mavs and they asked KP point blank, saying that they need assurances that he’s in for the long haul. They may have even said you could be with Doncic in Dallas, or you could be the man here in NY.

KP probably flinched. Deal done.

I must admit, I do enjoy a juice card fail, that brings someone back down to earth. Doubt KP and Janis had anticipated Perry moving so swiftly, him, mills and Fiz had been probably itching to give them both the middle finger after having to grovel for months for no reward.

hahahaha Juice Card Fail, I like that

juice card fail is exactly right..... but now the Knicks FO have to make sure they don't have a Free Agency Card fail.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
meloshouldgo
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2/1/2019  5:46 PM
Chandler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

the difference between Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, Durant and KP..... 3 of those guys carried teams to Finals WINS and they other 2 guys are ****ing multiple all-star playing mother ****ers.

KP is not sniffing any of that yet.

Not debating that at all. I'm just saying it's hypocritical to try and justify the trade because of his injuries. They happen. And as you note there are some damn good players who have had big ones, or repeated times away from the team. Add Embid to that list. Every team would want him. (Of course we would all prefer players who could play a full 82 but the point is it's fallacious logic to rationalize the trade based on injuries just as it would be for any of the guys mentioned above)

KP was a unique talent, at a perfect age for the rest of the team. He legitimately questioned the direction of the team, and Janis probably acted like an a-hole. This FO decided to trade him, rather than convince him. That's it in a nutshell

They tried convincing him but he instead acted like an entitled sh#t and demanded a trade and told players not to sign here. Still think he is worth defending?

assumes a lot of facts not in evidence. Even Mills (if you would be dumb enough to believe him) hasn't said that. He said he got a "vibe" that KP might not like the direction of the team. Long way from your assumptions. Who did he tell not to come and how so -- as in jest [this is a **** show which BTW is the truth] or as in [I won't be here when you come here; yes it's that bad]

Anyway I'm out on this. perfectly fine to have different opinions. i'll try and figure out how to find the search function if the future proves me right so as to have some good-natured heckling (and would expect the same in return)

I'll bet on KP; and I have you down for Mills/Perry

Enjoyed this back seems forth and it captures how I feel. I feel like there are good arguments for and against the trade.
I personally don't like me first players who put their own interests ahead of the team. So I found it disturbing when KP didn't show up at the exit interview, it was a bad look for a man- child with zero accompaniments. But with Phil gone and the new regime declaring their unconditional worship of KP and months of groveling by Fiz, I was starting to think all that would be behind us. But part of me also watched KP during games looking with great interest at the abysmal product on the floor. Euro players like to play structured basketball and we have four 50+ games proved we are not going to do that. I wouldn't blame him for thinking he would have to wait till somewhere in the second quarter for Mudiay and/or THJR to pass the rock to him. All we do iso-chucking with no ball movement and no defense. What player would want to come back to that?

So part off me is happy he is gone, because he wasn't loyal to the team and put himself ahead of the team.
Part of me thinks Perry may have killed the golden goose and destroyed any recognition the Knicks had for years to come. Given the situation we are in, it was a OK trade from a rational POV. But it's entirely fair to blame the FO for the situation we are in.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
StarksEwing1
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2/1/2019  5:51 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Chandler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

the difference between Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, Durant and KP..... 3 of those guys carried teams to Finals WINS and they other 2 guys are ****ing multiple all-star playing mother ****ers.

KP is not sniffing any of that yet.

Not debating that at all. I'm just saying it's hypocritical to try and justify the trade because of his injuries. They happen. And as you note there are some damn good players who have had big ones, or repeated times away from the team. Add Embid to that list. Every team would want him. (Of course we would all prefer players who could play a full 82 but the point is it's fallacious logic to rationalize the trade based on injuries just as it would be for any of the guys mentioned above)

KP was a unique talent, at a perfect age for the rest of the team. He legitimately questioned the direction of the team, and Janis probably acted like an a-hole. This FO decided to trade him, rather than convince him. That's it in a nutshell

They tried convincing him but he instead acted like an entitled sh#t and demanded a trade and told players not to sign here. Still think he is worth defending?

assumes a lot of facts not in evidence. Even Mills (if you would be dumb enough to believe him) hasn't said that. He said he got a "vibe" that KP might not like the direction of the team. Long way from your assumptions. Who did he tell not to come and how so -- as in jest [this is a **** show which BTW is the truth] or as in [I won't be here when you come here; yes it's that bad]

Anyway I'm out on this. perfectly fine to have different opinions. i'll try and figure out how to find the search function if the future proves me right so as to have some good-natured heckling (and would expect the same in return)

I'll bet on KP; and I have you down for Mills/Perry

Enjoyed this back seems forth and it captures how I feel. I feel like there are good arguments for and against the trade.
I personally don't like me first players who put their own interests ahead of the team. So I found it disturbing when KP didn't show up at the exit interview, it was a bad look for a man- child with zero accompaniments. But with Phil gone and the new regime declaring their unconditional worship of KP and months of groveling by Fiz, I was starting to think all that would be behind us. But part of me also watched KP during games looking with great interest at the abysmal product on the floor. Euro players like to play structured basketball and we have four 50+ games proved we are not going to do that. I wouldn't blame him for thinking he would have to wait till somewhere in the second quarter for Mudiay and/or THJR to pass the rock to him. All we do iso-chucking with no ball movement and no defense. What player would want to come back to that?

So part off me is happy he is gone, because he wasn't loyal to the team and put himself ahead of the team.
Part of me thinks Perry may have killed the golden goose and destroyed any recognition the Knicks had for years to come. Given the situation we are in, it was a OK trade from a rational POV. But it's entirely fair to blame the FO for the situation we are in.

The only thing I really blame this regime on is the hardaway contract which made no sense. Admittedly that was all Mills since Perry wasnt here yet. As for KP its not like they expected him to tear his ACL. When that happened KP must of known this year was gonna be a tough year and getting a top pick was good for him and the Knicks. Once again Janis got in his ear and forced the knicks hand
meloshouldgo
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2/1/2019  6:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2019  6:12 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Chandler wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:I apparently am in the minority and think this is an awful trade and another sign of FO incompetence of the highest order

1) people talk about fragile KP -- See Joel Embid, Lebron and a host of others who routinely miss extended periods due to wear and tear.
2) He is a young all star with more probability of being a 2-way superstar than anyone we have had in a generation
3) his biggest sin has been in telling the truth. It's hypocritical of some on this board who seemed to applaud him missing PJax exit interview because he thought the team was a mess, and then doing the same thing with his replacement. The truth of the matter is he was right both times. and if anything he showed improved discretion by being less public about it this time (i.e., no bike rides on day of interview)
4) All signs point to an insecure FO who didn't have answers to his complaints and panicked that he would leave the team. If they had the courage of their convictions, they could have showed KP the team was turning around through their superior drafting and player development before he had time to move.
5) Now 90% of the board is completely delusional thinking that somehow pairing a 30 year old KD with a 19 yr old KK, 20 yr old Frank is going to work. That is what has plagued us for years. We at least had a plan of players hitting their prime together. Now we'll be capped out with 2 superstars and a bunch of young-uns and the superstars will grow old too quickly
6) In contrast, look at dallas who now has Barnes 26, KP 23, Luka 19 going on 20. Much better picture (and one we were trying to accomplish)
7) regarding draft picks -- recall the John Wallace year where we had 3 later first rounders? Right, I didn't think so. they will be roster-filler not KPs

I understand that denial is an initial stage of gried, but c'mon man any objective analysis shows our FO is incompetent

I stopped reading right there. When did LeBron routinely miss extended periods of time?

fair enough. perhaps a stretch w LeBron but for the record last year was his first in his whole career where he didn't miss a game

Kyrie routinely hurt and we're begging for him. point is it comes with the territory

To be fair, I still don't understand your point about LeBron. Dude has been rock solid his entire career and you bring up a few games a year here and there that he has missed? What player has even MATCHED that plus all of the playoff games? NO ONE.

Boston traded a LOT of value (at the time) for Kyrie. The Knicks have a chance to get him for free. And we are complaining about that?

You complain about Kyrie being routinely hurt... but KP, what is he? MORE routinely hurt? Back, foot, ACL... what else? And KP has not yet shown, after a full year, that he is back to norm.

You have a good point on Lebron. this year has probably been his only year with "extended" time missed. I was too emotional. Point I was making was that the criticism against KP and injuries is being too hyped in an effort to justify this trade. I call BS on that. There are lots of great players routinely hurt or who have missed extended periods and we'd welcome them in a nanosecond: Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, even Durant

the point about Kyrie is that posters are being hypocritical when they say it was smart to trade KP because he's injury prone, and yippee we now have max money to get Kyrie who is also injury prone

People are trying to sugar coat this trade. We gave away a generational talent for a ball hog, two late first round pick (most likely), and cap space for max guys who will find it very troubling to come and join a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds.

We at least used to have a plan of multiple players coming into their prime together; now we're doing 2010 version 2.0

the difference between Kyrie, Kawhi, Paul George, Russ, Durant and KP..... 3 of those guys carried teams to Finals WINS and they other 2 guys are ****ing multiple all-star playing mother ****ers.

KP is not sniffing any of that yet.

Not debating that at all. I'm just saying it's hypocritical to try and justify the trade because of his injuries. They happen. And as you note there are some damn good players who have had big ones, or repeated times away from the team. Add Embid to that list. Every team would want him. (Of course we would all prefer players who could play a full 82 but the point is it's fallacious logic to rationalize the trade based on injuries just as it would be for any of the guys mentioned above)

KP was a unique talent, at a perfect age for the rest of the team. He legitimately questioned the direction of the team, and Janis probably acted like an a-hole. This FO decided to trade him, rather than convince him. That's it in a nutshell

They tried convincing him but he instead acted like an entitled sh#t and demanded a trade and told players not to sign here. Still think he is worth defending?

assumes a lot of facts not in evidence. Even Mills (if you would be dumb enough to believe him) hasn't said that. He said he got a "vibe" that KP might not like the direction of the team. Long way from your assumptions. Who did he tell not to come and how so -- as in jest [this is a **** show which BTW is the truth] or as in [I won't be here when you come here; yes it's that bad]

Anyway I'm out on this. perfectly fine to have different opinions. i'll try and figure out how to find the search function if the future proves me right so as to have some good-natured heckling (and would expect the same in return)

I'll bet on KP; and I have you down for Mills/Perry

Enjoyed this back seems forth and it captures how I feel. I feel like there are good arguments for and against the trade.
I personally don't like me first players who put their own interests ahead of the team. So I found it disturbing when KP didn't show up at the exit interview, it was a bad look for a man- child with zero accompaniments. But with Phil gone and the new regime declaring their unconditional worship of KP and months of groveling by Fiz, I was starting to think all that would be behind us. But part of me also watched KP during games looking with great interest at the abysmal product on the floor. Euro players like to play structured basketball and we have four 50+ games proved we are not going to do that. I wouldn't blame him for thinking he would have to wait till somewhere in the second quarter for Mudiay and/or THJR to pass the rock to him. All we do iso-chucking with no ball movement and no defense. What player would want to come back to that?

So part off me is happy he is gone, because he wasn't loyal to the team and put himself ahead of the team.
Part of me thinks Perry may have killed the golden goose and destroyed any recognition the Knicks had for years to come. Given the situation we are in, it was a OK trade from a rational POV. But it's entirely fair to blame the FO for the situation we are in.

The only thing I really blame this regime on is the hardaway contract which made no sense. Admittedly that was all Mills since Perry wasnt here yet. As for KP its not like they expected him to tear his ACL. When that happened KP must of known this year was gonna be a tough year and getting a top pick was good for him and the Knicks. Once again Janis got in his ear and forced the knicks hand

All valid, but no one forced the FO to bring in a non system coach who encouraged iso chucking. No one made them acquire lottery busts from other teams and prioritize them with their low IQ selfish play over our own youth. No one made Fiz play those scrubs ahead of our own draft picks. For that they need to take accountability. It's not like their hands were tied when they brought in those players. Only Vonleh was a guy that lived up to the image of player the FO and coach were supposedly "committed" to.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Kemet
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2/1/2019  6:19 PM
Knicksfan wrote:

Expect even more gasoline to keep this fire against KP going for a few more weeks.

Well .. Tired-KP left the Knicks to become a NBA player under a 10 yr experience NBA head coach Rick Carlisle, in NY KP never showed he had the skills or IQ to be a starter player within the 3 season he played.
Every time I mention KP in this forum I was called a troll .. The Knicks never had a suitable coaching-staff to develop Tired-KP low IQ or give him confidence to perform down low in the paint.
The Mavs Head-Coach Rick Carlisle will improve the skills of Tired-KP, and Timmy, and C.Lee, and Burke.


The Knicks and the Mavs started the 2018-19 season having rosters that were practically equally the same, the two teams supposed to have the same record after 50 games. The big difference were the Mavs has a 10 yr experience head-coach who did well developing the Detroit Pistons, then moved on to develop the Mavs with the help of Jason Kidd. The Knicks mismanagement has hired another inexperience head coach Fizdale, who decision-making are more off the wall then Fisher/Rambis/Horn put together. And Fizdale's cluelessness as a developing head coach has his coaching staff jealous of how he got the Knicks head coaching job without having a format plan and system for the Players and coaching-staff. The Knicks management/coaches/and players are all on different pages !!!
Knicksfan
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2/1/2019  6:30 PM
Fizdale talks:

Knicks_Fan
Knicksfan
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2/1/2019  6:34 PM
More:

Knicks_Fan
codeunknown
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2/1/2019  7:04 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Nate Duncan liked the trade more for the Knicks and called the move, ‘visionary’. Danny Leroux also thought the Knicks got the better deal but was not as out spoken. Kevin O’Connor said the Knicks now have a war chest with 7 draft picks in five years and talked about the Knicks having a better chance of getting A.D. and could possibly land KD, Kyrie and AD. He also talked about if the Knicks did not sign anyone they would have so much flexibility with cap space and draft picks. I want to listen to a few more podcasts over the weekend but what I have heard has been very positive.

Perhaps its visionary, based on some intimate knowledge of Porzingis's rehab and the intentions of Durant and other free agents. That would be extra credit to Perry to accurately capture and act on that information. For me, the deal stands on its own even with the unknowns, since;

1) Porzingis controlled the destinations
a) as an injured player at the end of a contract, the promise of staying is all you receive

2) Porzingis' injury put an asterisk on his sale value and his pre-injury win impact was uncertain.

3) The trade manages salary cap/draft mediocrity risk the best. Winning big in the NBA under cap constraints is fundamentally a resource optimization problem. A contract extension gamble may or may not have worked out - but at 150 million over 5 years, a lot of things would have to go right (he would need to function at a high all-star level with durability). I would not at all be comfortable with a gamble on Porzingis as a first move - which makes you potentially a middling lottery team, without tandem free agent possibilities.

4) The return is nonetheless diversified across time, draft picks, player (Smith Jr.)and cap space, meaning extra security of at least some return.

5) It creates homogeneity in the development timeline of the remaining players.

6) Quick execution eliminates a nasty media battle, which is important for brand restoration.

Sh-t in the popcorn to go with sh-t on the court. Its a theme show like Medieval times.
homeskillitprigioni
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2/1/2019  7:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2019  7:17 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Nate Duncan liked the trade more for the Knicks and called the move, ‘visionary’. Danny Leroux also thought the Knicks got the better deal but was not as out spoken. Kevin O’Connor said the Knicks now have a war chest with 7 draft picks in five years and talked about the Knicks having a better chance of getting A.D. and could possibly land KD, Kyrie and AD. He also talked about if the Knicks did not sign anyone they would have so much flexibility with cap space and draft picks. I want to listen to a few more podcasts over the weekend but what I have heard has been very positive.

I definitely disagree if they're saying we got good enough value in the deal...but yeah the flexibility with cap space is the plus here. But I'm scared to death of what they're going to do with it if they don't get someone elite. This is mostly the same front office who gave out that horrific Hardaway contract.

I don't know if they'll be patient and play the long game that'll be necessary if they don't get the 2 top tier guys. Some of the fans will have to separate it from the Porzingis trade too. I hate the trade in terms of value but now that it's happened, I know we can't settle and give out big contracts to middle-tier guys if we strike out on the big boys. It should be either a big or nothing offseason in terms of FA's, nothing in-between.
martin
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2/1/2019  7:16 PM
And this supposedly caused tension between the Knicks and KP's team? SMH

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martin
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2/1/2019  7:18 PM
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StarksEwing1
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2/1/2019  7:24 PM
martin wrote:
its good to see Boston finally get some bad luck for a change lol
Kemet
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2/1/2019  7:27 PM
The mystery on KP's return to the court?
How determine will players be to fit into Carlisle's 2-Way system?
Tim Hardaway Jr's. offense?
Courtney Lee's defense?
Trey Burke playmaking skills?
Cartman718
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2/1/2019  7:28 PM
martin wrote:And this supposedly caused tension between the Knicks and KP's team? SMH

He'll be in the locker room though on his knees since they are fine now.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
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2/1/2019  7:36 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
martin wrote:
its good to see Boston finally get some bad luck for a change lol

Fuck yeah
meloshouldgo
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2/1/2019  7:57 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
martin wrote:
its good to see Boston finally get some bad luck for a change lol

Fuck yeah

Made my day

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TripleThreat
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2/1/2019  7:59 PM
codeunknown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Nate Duncan liked the trade more for the Knicks and called the move, ‘visionary’. Danny Leroux also thought the Knicks got the better deal but was not as out spoken. Kevin O’Connor said the Knicks now have a war chest with 7 draft picks in five years and talked about the Knicks having a better chance of getting A.D. and could possibly land KD, Kyrie and AD. He also talked about if the Knicks did not sign anyone they would have so much flexibility with cap space and draft picks. I want to listen to a few more podcasts over the weekend but what I have heard has been very positive.

Perhaps its visionary, based on some intimate knowledge of Porzingis's rehab and the intentions of Durant and other free agents. That would be extra credit to Perry to accurately capture and act on that information. For me, the deal stands on its own even with the unknowns, since;

1) Porzingis controlled the destinations
a) as an injured player at the end of a contract, the promise of staying is all you receive

2) Porzingis' injury put an asterisk on his sale value and his pre-injury win impact was uncertain.

3) The trade manages salary cap/draft mediocrity risk the best. Winning big in the NBA under cap constraints is fundamentally a resource optimization problem. A contract extension gamble may or may not have worked out - but at 150 million over 5 years, a lot of things would have to go right (he would need to function at a high all-star level with durability). I would not at all be comfortable with a gamble on Porzingis as a first move - which makes you potentially a middling lottery team, without tandem free agent possibilities.

4) The return is nonetheless diversified across time, draft picks, player (Smith Jr.)and cap space, meaning extra security of at least some return.

5) It creates homogeneity in the development timeline of the remaining players.

6) Quick execution eliminates a nasty media battle, which is important for brand restoration.

Excellent analysis. Thank you. As I've said before in the past, I hope you choose to post more, your posts always bring more value to the community.

An issue to consider ( for everyone) is that this is not an isolated situation. Many players are revolting in place ( Irving, Butler, Leonard, soon to be Davis, etc) to be traded to a different team. While the Knicks front office has done very little to get the benefit of the doubt in general, it's hard to pinpoint this all completely on them. This is a larger systematic dysfunction in how the NBA marketplace operates.

The league desperately needs a hard cap and widespread use of non guaranteed contracts and signing bonuses as the primary means for guaranteed money ( i.e. the NFL system) Part of the problem inherent is the need to salary match and where the player will resign ( Dallas would not trade for him unless he gave them confirmation he'd sign an extension, any other talk is simply to avoid any potential tampering issues, because tampering always happens no matter what)

That the Knicks could have done the best they could given how the current system works and also still make a trade in their disfavor is a sign of a larger problem than the Knicks front office. This is not a blanket defense of the Knicks front office, but it's more complicated than many here realize.

Again, codeunknown, excellent post on your part.
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