Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:From Berman...

http://nypost.com/2017/07/18/carmelo-doesnt-want-to-talk-to-knicks-just-be-traded/

Carmelo doesn’t want to talk to Knicks, just be traded

One day after the Knicks new management team stated Carmelo Anthony could potentially return, it appears Anthony still has no desire to talk with Knicks president Steve Mills and new general manager Scott Perry about that possibility.
According to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski during a SportsCenter appearance Tuesday morning, Anthony “has made it clear to [the Knicks]: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated back into this New York roster.”

The Knicks are in complete rebuild mode, but management does not know if it can make a sensible deal to send Anthony to the Rockets. Sources told The Post Anthony’s camp is pushing hard for a Rockets’ trade.

A source also told The Post the Rockets are undeterred by the franchise being put up for sale Monday and will continue their pursuit of uniting Anthony with his buddies Chris Paul and James Harden. Anthony has $56 million left on his pact, but with an opt out after the season.

Mills and Perry want to meet with Anthony, who has a no-trade clause, to gauge his temperature and see if he’d be willing to expand his wish list beyond the Rockets and Cavaliers. Suggestions the Knicks are trying to convince Anthony to remain a Knick are exaggerated as they try to focus on, as Mills said Monday, “youth, athleticism and defense.’’

There was no indication if Anthony is willing to expand his list, meaning this latest Melodrama could drag on. The Blazers and Suns are said to have some interest in getting involved in a bid for Anthony.

It was also reported the Rockets are prepared that “these negotiations with the Knicks could run through August, September, into possibly the start of training camp as New York tries to rebuild Melo’s value.”
Despite his no-trade clause, Anthony doesn’t have much leverage. If he holds out of training camp, it would cost him only money. The Knicks no longer are in win-now mode, so they’d be prepared to play Tim Hardaway Jr. at shooting guard and Courtney Lee at Anthony’s small-forward spot.

Rebuilding his value is irrelevant if its just Houston.

Telling the Knicks he only wants to go to one team, Melo shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get traded. Was reading about how Mills was around (in some capacity) when Ewing demanded a trade, and the results. I doubt he wants to go there again, hope not.

Again, it' July.

No one has any reason to back off their first bargaining position now or anytime soon.

Melo can open up his NTC to other team's in September or October if he's inclined to.

Wasn't commenting on the prospect of Melo changing his mind, I was commenting on the prospect of Melo not changing his mind. Which you raised.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

TLover wrote:Rockets being sold could possibly garner us more assets as a one last hurrah for the current owner. Obviously the new owner will not like having future 1st round picks traded away, but it still won't devalue the franchise.

I'm all for getting as many 1st round picks from the rockets as possible and flip Ryan Anderson. Heck if it gets us another first rounder from the rockets we'll keep Anderson then look to move him later at the trade deadline.

Collecting future 1st round picks (while sustaining your young core)is a great way to build a franchise (as long as the decision makers make the right decisions regarding those assets) hence why we need a guy like Scott Perry to make it all come together.

Our 1 & 2 scorers without Melo is KP & Hardaway. Mills knew he had to replace Melo's scoring and Timmy could do that with a clutch element to his game. Also let's not forget the only player Mills ever drafted himself when he was acting gm in 2013 was Tim Hardaway Jr.

Houston's 2020 and 2022 draft picks (likely with some protection) in exchange for paying Anderson (or someone(s) else) in 2019-2020 just doesn't do it for me like it does some people.

If the 2022 is unprotected and the nearer one is top 3 protected, I will be ok with it. I am not tied into Melo's window or KP's window or anyone else's window. We should look to establish a continuous flow of first round picks, like Hinkie did. That will eventually payoff to where we have enough solid talent at the same time.

The value of 1st round picks vary wildly. "First round" is used as a term by fans to describe positive value with hardly any qualification or distinction.

Where those 2020 and 2022 picks would likely be matters a great deal in assessing their value.

joec32033 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:So your claiming the way he was treated has had no impact on the current situation and I am claiming Phil's handling hurt any possibility of him working with us in trading him. Fair enough. We disagree.

Melo's career has shown a pattern of self-interest, and I don't mean that pejoratively.

He wanted his contract resolved before the strike, he wanted a NTC and a trade kicker to GIVE him control, and now we seem put off that he wants to exercise those things for the very reason he asked for them.

Wanting to control where you live and work and the goals of your work is a completely understandable.

He can try to go where he has a more than decent chance of playing in the Finals and where two of this best friends play, or he can go to places where his Finals odds are less and none of his best friends play.

WHY would he, or anyone, choose the latter before the door was closed on the former?

I wouldn't.

As a parting gift. To be a good Knick on his way out the door?

C'mon.

Agree, it is not an insult to say someones carreer is driven by self interest. Last i checked not too many of us have dedicated our services to a charitable organazations. Specially athletes.

Agree he was smart to include a NTC. And with the reasons to have one.

Disagreeing that the way he was treated erased any Possibility of a more favorable negotiation. No matter how you try to phrase it, claiming ones prediction of what could have been as more probable than others, is still just a guess. IMO, There could be several options/outcomes in any negotiation. Unless either side is combative or feels disrespected.

Why in July would Carmelo Anthony allow himself to be traded anywhere other than exactly where he wants to be traded to?

This turns into a battle of wills. There is a point where Carmelo's "control" is going to be a problem for him.

Not in July.

Ok. Did you read the rest of my post? I literally said the longer it goes on.

There is no reason for the Knicks to make a move either. No one is playing. You make it sound like the Knicks have to move him now. They don't.

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying for the immediate future Melo likely isn't going to posture in any way other than he wants out and only wants Houston. He has NO reason to suggest otherwise even if he'd ultimately be open to other team, including btw, the Knicks.

Knicks have NO reason to say anything else but they're open to him coming back.

This all started because I said his perceived value isn't that big of a factor because Melo is always going to have the final say.

He'll never have any motivation to gravitate to the highest bidder.

He already wants to go where his friends are, and to teams who think he could be the difference maker in their championship aspiration, who both unfortunately do not have a lot of options when it comes to trades, regardless of how badly they want him.

His value there is already the highest it'll be.

His potential return is what's pretty locked up at the moment, regardless of his value.

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I'm starting to lose respect for Melo. When we traded for him to come here, we gave up so many assets to acquire him because he didn't want to risk going into free agency that summer and not get a max contract with the CBA. Now that he's leaving, he is dictating which team he wants to go with (granted it's his right b/c of dumb no trade clause) but it ensures the team gets little to no value back in return so he's happy to go play play for a contender. He's setting the franchise back coming and going.

Knicks and Melo haters are getting exactly what they deserve. Melo stayed quite all year. Knowimg full well who was in control. Now your complaining about the realization. Maybe you now see what some of us saw as a problem with Phil's handling of Melo. But thats because he thought he could waste another 60m of Dolan s money by buying him out. Yet everyone thought it was defending Melo and not just complaining about Phil devaluing yet another one of our assets. For the sake of his precious. At least we got rid of him before he completed doing the same with KP.

At this stage in the game, Melo's relative value around the league is moot if Melo is trying to force his way to Houston or Cleveland via his NTC.

Houston isn't holding back value, they don't have any value to give. It's Anderson or Gordon/Ariza. Period. I doubt Paul and Harden were swayed by Jackson.

Same in Cleveland, it's either Shump/Frye/Jefferson or Love, with again, Lebron James being the biggest influence.

I'm not defending Jackson but he could have talked him up for those 6 months and the math would be the same.

Melo's perceived value isn't getting some team to take Anderson off Houston's hands.

My point is we gave up a boatload to get him here. He was going to be a free agent that summer and we could have gotten him without giving up assets but he was afraid of not getting back his full money because of the restructuring of the CBA.

Now that he's leaving, he only wants to be traded to two contending teams, which does not help his value. Yes...Phil gave him a not trade, which was stupid, and yes, Phil extended his contract, which was dumb; and yes, Phil devalued him in the press, but Melo is not helping matters on his way out. Giving up a lot to get him; we had one good season, and now getting nothing in sending him out.

Yeah now we are being told Melo doesn't care about helping the Knicks anymore because he is pissed with Phil/Jeff/Dolan. But when he was pissed with George Karl/Denver front office it didn't stop him from helping them TRADERAPE three Knicks.

It was in his interest to do so.

People will spin whatever bull**** they can to make it sound like reasonable arguments.

And people will be willfully ignorant because they have a grudge.

And people will jump to half aseed conclusions no matter what. I actually supported the Melo trade for the Knicks. And I don't rely on hindsight to revise that decision. It was a ok risk to take in my opinion, just proved to be the worst decision in Knicks history. Good bet, bad outcome.

I wouldn't bother to argue with that.

The FACTS are if they did nothing that trade deadline they would have had to renounce Chandler or trade Gallo, and traded Mosgov or Turiaf to afford Melo at anywhere near his max.

That's not spin or a half-assed conclusion, it's just math.

And people get it wrong, every day.

The "half assed" comment was about you deciding I had a grudge against the Melo trade, or at least that's how I read that. And I haven't checked the numbers on the Denver trade in a long time but I am pretty sure it was commonly held belief that the Knicks had enough cap space for one max contract.

newyorknewyork wrote:The solution is for Melo to accept a deal to another team. Opt out next off season and sign with Houston as a FA. Or maybe an even better opportunity presents itself when the banana boat all are available.

Melo was fine with staying in NY as far as we knew until Paul went totally unexpectedly to Houston.

He's playing it to his advantage to get where he wants to go most. But I think people need to consider that Melo staying in NY may not actually the apocalypse. He may not want to leave as badly as all that.

btw, if he opts out next year to sign with Houston as a FA he opts out of $28m to sign for their MLE.

Knickoftime wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The solution is for Melo to accept a deal to another team. Opt out next off season and sign with Houston as a FA. Or maybe an even better opportunity presents itself when the banana boat all are available.

Melo was fine with staying in NY as far as we knew until Paul went totally unexpectedly to Houston.

He's playing it to his advantage to get where he wants to go most. But I think people need to consider that Melo staying in NY may not actually the apocalypse. He may not want to leave as badly as all that.

btw, if he opts out next year to sign with Houston as a FA he opts out of $28m to sign for their MLE.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The solution is for Melo to accept a deal to another team. Opt out next off season and sign with Houston as a FA. Or maybe an even better opportunity presents itself when the banana boat all are available.

Melo was fine with staying in NY as far as we knew until Paul went totally unexpectedly to Houston.

He's playing it to his advantage to get where he wants to go most. But I think people need to consider that Melo staying in NY may not actually the apocalypse. He may not want to leave as badly as all that.

btw, if he opts out next year to sign with Houston as a FA he opts out of $28m to sign for their MLE.

Also Melo wanted to outlast Phil. Its not a coincidence that once Phil was gone all of a sudden melo was pushing to go

Regardless of Phil,.Melo has always been consistent with the criteria for wantimg to stay. Has said many times..."If the Knicks wish to go into a rebuilding mode he would understand" The Knicks have clearly stated their intention to do so. Is that not what you thought was being said by both sides?

With nothing finalized on the Carmelo Anthony trade front, the Portland Trail Blazers reportedly tried to jump right into the fray in recent days.

The Blazers are reportedly one of the teams the Rockets and Knicks have recruited to try and facilitate a deal to send Carmelo to the Rockets. Instead, the Blazers were thinking that rather help get that deal done, they could trade for the All-Star forward themselves, as they apparently were hopeful he would add them to the list of teams he would waive his no-trade clause for. The list that currently still has just two teams: the Rockets and Cavaliers.

Unfortunately for Portland, that doesn't appear to be in Melo's plans, despite C.J. McCollum's best attempts on Instagram. On Monday afternoon, ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski was on The Jump, and said that joining the Trail Blazers is not something Carmelo is interested in right now.
as transcribed by KGW.com:

"Portland's players are reaching out to Melo. Portland would love to get involved in this and become a team that Melo would consider. ... They would like for Carmelo to waive his no-trade and go to Portland, but right now, that's not something Melo's considering."
"Sources tell me New York and Houston tried to pull Portland into a three-way, potentially a four-way deal. Portland does not have any interest in helping Houston, a conference rival, get Carmelo Anthony."

This is really not surprising at all. While Portland has some talented young players, it isn't in a position to contend for a title, which is really what Carmelo is looking for in wherever he plays next.

newyorknewyork wrote:The solution is for Melo to accept a deal to another team.

The Knicks are going to be hard pressed to trade him.

They are going to be hard pressed to suspend him or bench him, if he's healthy.

The only solution is two fold

A) Hammer him in the press. He only responds when his "brand" is under assault or his public perception. Hammer him over and over and eventually he'll crack. Do you think all these anti-Phil articles came from nowhere recently ( I'm not saying Jackson is blameless either) Melo is using this tactic to get what he wants, the Knicks can too. Melo got a stripper pregnant. Fine. Send a Knicks internal security guy to pay her off a little, she goes to the press, shows the baby, cries on camera, and denounces Melo as a person. How long is he gonna stay in NY then?

B) Play him 48 minutes a game. Play him every minute of every game he stays on this roster. Grind him into the ground. Someone will say that's unreasonable. Say it simple, we don't have more talent, he is our "Olympian" and the team needs his scoring. Just keep running him out there. The point where he refuses to go into a game, suspend him. The narrative is simple, Melo doesn't want to play. Grind him down, over and over again, then say "We aren't going to trade him period" and then publicly open up contract negotiations ( from the Vivek Ranadive playbook here) and say the Knicks want Melo here for the next four years after ( they don't really, but this position would box Melo into a corner) Give him the assignment to defend the best offensive player on the other team, all the time. No matter what. He refuses. Suspend him. Watch him get torched on YouTube night after night and get posterized, let's see how that helps his brand.

And that's it, that's all the Knicks can reasonably do to increase their leverage here.