HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:Same feel and vibes on this KAT trade as after the RJ/IQ trade?

I feel worse this time.

Me too... I got Jules jersey in my closet

BUT

This is a much higher ceiling team. It's just about how much better KAT is than Jules.. it's the fit. We have a superstar PG who gets to the rim and paint against anyone at will. He's earned his shot and KAT really is the perfect fit.

Remember he's a NJ kid who grew up a Knick fan. Losing Jules is a gut punch. DD also. I really have good vibe about KAT here.

ALSO...

Go look at KAT under Thibs. Absolutely leveled up and I really think there are parts of his game we are gonna see unlocked here. I have high expectations.

Randle is great and while a bully ball post player can certainly work with Brunson the BEST fit is a guy like KAT on offense and by a lot. Open lanes and paint for Jalen or open 3s for a group of snipers.

Players come and go. Wish DD and Randle luck. Except against us.
Questions are , is this enough?
What’s next? Is Josh or OG our PF?
Who is coming off the bench with proven scoring?

Here’s the deal. Even if we win a championship, part of me is going to feel like crap for Randle.

The organization should send him a ring, and put an Orange Julius concession stand in the Garden.

jskinny35 wrote:

jaydh wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:In this case, I'd say that's exactly how it's worked for several years. KAT is bad at drop coverage and instead of fighting it, the Wolves decided to bring in Gobert. KAT is entering year 10 now. It's unlikely that he becomes a defensive center.

Yeah but no one is trying to make that case right? That’s not KAT’s role or expectation.

That’s the assumed starting point of just what he is. No one expecting Brunson to be a 2-way PG, his role is to destroy defenses. Thibs and team will absolutely help Brunson KAT be the best team defenders they can, that’s all you ask for because of their elite offensive abilities.

It’s why the Knicks have and traded for OG Mikal Hart Deuce Mitch. To cover Brunson and the KAT/Randle weaknesses, and also to enhance their strengths.

I don’t start with the assumption that every minutes of a Thibs team has to have elite rim protection. All Thibs talks about is NET rating. It’s clearer to understand FO roster construction after that departure.

Knicks FO are not going for perfect but rather as best as they can within their salary and asset pool.

I've heard quite a few people say this trade was made with the expectation that KAT will be our stretch 5. But, KAT is just bad at it defensively. If he's not a stretch 5, that just makes him a tall 4. Cool. He's a slight upgrade over Randle. But the bench got significantly weaker, the cap is even more mucked up and we still need a center. I'd say this roster is probably a better matchup for Boston now than it was pre-trade. I'd say the same for Philadelphia. This FO has been on quite roll, but they haven't been perfect. Obi, Kemba, Fournier...I think this FO has made a gamble that was 1( unnecessary at this point and time and 2)doesn't get this team any closer to a title.

KAT is not a stretch 5 cause you just declare it so? The Knicks FO disagrees with you.

KAT offensively is not a slight upgrade over Randle, no sir. KAT is a historically better spacer and shooter than Randle, and that makes everyone else also better offensively, because of that space.

DDV and Deuce overlapped and stood to share the same (limited) leftover minutes behind Mikal. Deuce eats DDV minutes. Shamet, same.

This is the “don’t sign” DDV because we have Grimes, RJ, IQ, Deuce argument but in reverse.

As I've stated, the Knicks FO has been wrong before and I'm pretty sure they're wrong this time. There's plenty of data points and anecdotal evidence to back my opinions. If you guys wanna hang your hats on pie in the sky optimism, be my guest. I'm not seeing it right now, but I hope I'm wrong. KAT the past two years has not been significantly better than Randle BTW. And it's been pretty well documented that I'm not the biggest Randle fan. I'll even push back some and say Randle is the better playmaker. DDV is better than McBride and Shamet. That's all that matters. Mcbride is quarter and Smart is a nickel. DDV is .50 cent piece. We can argue about how big a loss DDV is, but there's no escaping the fact that it's a substantial loss. Hopefully McBride make enough of jump where we can forget about Donte.

Its not so much optimism as it is the front office having foresight.

If we don't make the move, and the season ends and Randle walks because of $$ like iHart... then what?

And also Randle is coming off a shoulder injury that can often result in a reinjury... so besides the financial distraction and concern - there was an injury risk to consider during this upcoming season. I wish we could have kept IHart but once he left we were left scrambling to find a 7 foot passing big. Prior to this trade I was most concerned with Brunson having to figure out a new/different way to be so dominant - as a lot hinged on IHart's screens, floaters and overall positive chemistry. We still lose some scrappiness from the 5 - but KAT is good enough in that role and can obviously shoot better then IHart (or Randle if he subbed in as C).

You right, no one brings this up.

martin wrote:

I was stating to feel better .

2024 Salaries:
Horford $9,5M
Towns $59M
Olynyk $13M
Reid $13M

But we finally have a true stretch 5!

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

I was stating to feel better .

2024 Salaries:
Horford $9,5M
Towns $59M
Olynyk $13M
Reid $13M

But we finally have a true stretch 5!

And this is one of the things that has me questioning the deal other 5s,?. Can you call yourself a stretch if you don't guard other 5s? Whats stopping other teams from just sticking their version of "OG"on KAT? I dunno. Nothing will get answered until camp starts.

End of the day he is still a very good player. We still have a very good team.
Losing Divo was huge. 4 guys who knew each others game would have been a big plus.

Time to keep it in rear view mirror. Gonna be a great season.

The other side of this transaction is less unsettling but hardly triumphant. Again: Why did the Knicks do this trade in late September, before actually getting a chance to see what Randle, OG Anunoby, and the Nova Bros looked like together? While understanding the relationship several members of New York’s front office have with Towns, his massive contract and reckless on-court tendencies (on both ends) make searching for a cheaper short-term solution who wouldn’t cost DiVincenzo—their best shooter and second-leading scorer during last year’s postseason—a preferable route.

New York received the best player in this deal. But Towns in New York is not necessarily who he could be in Minnesota, where Gobert was a safety net. Mitchell Robinson can potentially fill a similar role, but he’s consistently hurt (including right now, for the next few months) and doesn’t own four Defensive Player of the Year trophies. In other words, the Knicks did not solve their frontcourt issues. What they did, though, is add a highly talented big who can space the floor and develop a devastating two-man game with Jalen Brunson. Historically, he has almost single-handedly raised the floor and ceiling of every offense he’s ever been in. (These on-off differentials don’t lie.)

Towns makes a lot more sense next to the remaining Nova crew than Randle did, which is likely what the Knicks are telling themselves. Anunoby can check some 5s to keep him out of pick-and-rolls when the Knicks put him at center. But picturing KAT at the 5 for lengthy stretches in the playoffs doesn’t work so well. Imagine him against the Celtics five-out offense, or forced to guard Joel Embiid, or trying to protect the rim and rebound as Giannis Antetokounmpo tries to assault it every 30 seconds. Offenses will make him and Brunson guard ball screen after ball screen. Maybe they’ll survive (having Mikal Bridges, Anunoby, and Josh Hart will obviously help), but it’ll be a grind.

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

I was stating to feel better .

2024 Salaries:
Horford $9,5M
Towns $59M
Olynyk $13M
Reid $13M

But we finally have a true stretch 5!

And this is one of the things that has me questioning the deal other 5s,?. Can you call yourself a stretch if you don't guard other 5s? Whats stopping other teams from just sticking their version of "OG"on KAT? I dunno. Nothing will get answered until camp starts.

Kat is long. He shoots over the wing players. If "OG" smothers Kat, where is "OG's" man? Oh, Mikal or our OG is not open! I know you want to hate the deal but c'mon man, nobody is saying this is a perfect team.

Want to hate the deal? It comes down to this, this is the final major move this team can make due to cap restrictions. If they were going to make an deal like this, I'd like to think the team raised it's odds to win a title. I don't feel closer to Boston and, barring injuries, I feel the team took a step below the 76ers. I get it. We're all Knicks fans and we want the team to do well. But covering the obvious deficiencies this team now has with unfettered piles of BS optimism does make them go away. Thibs has done enough to earn our trust so I hope he figures something out. I'll leave it at that. Someone should do an official welcome to NY thread for KAT when the deal becomes official.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

martin wrote:Same feel and vibes on this KAT trade as after the RJ/IQ trade?

I feel worse this time.

Me too... I got Jules jersey in my closet

BUT

This is a much higher ceiling team. It's just about how much better KAT is than Jules.. it's the fit. We have a superstar PG who gets to the rim and paint against anyone at will. He's earned his shot and KAT really is the perfect fit.

Remember he's a NJ kid who grew up a Knick fan. Losing Jules is a gut punch. DD also. I really have good vibe about KAT here.

ALSO...

Go look at KAT under Thibs. Absolutely leveled up and I really think there are parts of his game we are gonna see unlocked here. I have high expectations.

Randle is great and while a bully ball post player can certainly work with Brunson the BEST fit is a guy like KAT on offense and by a lot. Open lanes and paint for Jalen or open 3s for a group of snipers.

Players come and go. Wish DD and Randle luck. Except against us.
Questions are , is this enough?
What’s next? Is Josh or OG our PF?
Who is coming off the bench with proven scoring?

We have less depth there is enough. It's the best set up you could have around Brunson. If you believe in him than this is it.

I still like the bench. Payne is a good role player and excellent shooter. I expect Payne to backup Brunson (14ish minutes) and McBride to get minutes behind everyone else (30mpg). That leaves Precious and Sims which we know about. That's OK. That's a lot better if Mitch comes back.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

I was stating to feel better .

2024 Salaries:
Horford $9,5M
Towns $59M
Olynyk $13M
Reid $13M

But we finally have a true stretch 5!

And this is one of the things that has me questioning the deal other 5s,?. Can you call yourself a stretch if you don't guard other 5s? Whats stopping other teams from just sticking their version of "OG"on KAT? I dunno. Nothing will get answered until camp starts.

Kat is long. He shoots over the wing players. If "OG" smothers Kat, where is "OG's" man? Oh, Mikal or our OG is not open! I know you want to hate the deal but c'mon man, nobody is saying this is a perfect team.

Want to hate the deal? It comes down to this, this is the final major move this team can make due to cap restrictions. If they were going to make an deal like this, I'd like to think the team raised it's odds to win a title. I don't feel closer to Boston and, barring injuries, I feel the team took a step below the 76ers. I get it. We're all Knicks fans and we want the team to do well. But covering the obvious deficiencies this team now has with unfettered piles of BS optimism does make them go away. Thibs has done enough to earn our trust so I hope he figures something out. I'll leave it at that. Someone should do an official welcome to NY thread for KAT when the deal becomes official.

Wonder what is keeping it from becoming official? Would be a shocker if Minny got cold feet.