Thibs has done a very good job in helping change the culture of the organization. As a fan of more than 50 years, Im grateful for that.

Not so grateful that I would want the FO to pass on a search for a replacement. If Thibs gets outcoached in the playoffs. I know some want to make Thibs coach for life. I want to see how far Thibs can take a good team first.

If the FO isnt happy with the way the playoffs went. Did a search, and concluded that Thibs was still the best choice. Im ok with that too. The point is to keep finding ways to get better.

Buck Showalter was a very good manager, helped the Yankees level up. But it took Joe Torre to put them over the top. Which role will Thibs play? We should have a better idea in the postseason.

GustavBahler wrote:Been saying all season. Regular season success is great. Playoff success is more important. Dont really care if we have a great regular season coach, and thats it.

Thibs has done a very good job in helping change the culture of the organization. As a fan of more than 50 years, Im grateful for that.

Not so grateful that I would want the FO to pass on a search for a replacement. If Thibs gets outcoached in the playoffs. I know some want to make Thibs coach for life. I want to see how far Thibs can take a good team first.

If the FO isnt happy with the way the playoffs went. Did a search, and concluded that Thibs was still the best choice. Im ok with that too. The point is to keep finding ways to get better.

Buck Showalter was a very good manager, helped the Yankees level up. But it took Joe Torre to put them over the top. Which role will Thibs play? We should have a better idea in the postseason.

Was it Showalter leaving or was it guys like Jeter having a great rookie year and Mariano finding his role as a relief pitcher? Give Thibs a shot, we didn’t have a lot of talent 2 years ago we have a lot more talent now

GustavBahler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Been saying all season. Regular season success is great. Playoff success is more important. Dont really care if we have a great regular season coach, and thats it.

Thibs has done a very good job in helping change the culture of the organization. As a fan of more than 50 years, Im grateful for that.

Not so grateful that I would want the FO to pass on a search for a replacement. If Thibs gets outcoached in the playoffs. I know some want to make Thibs coach for life. I want to see how far Thibs can take a good team first.

If the FO isnt happy with the way the playoffs went. Did a search, and concluded that Thibs was still the best choice. Im ok with that too. The point is to keep finding ways to get better.

Buck Showalter was a very good manager, helped the Yankees level up. But it took Joe Torre to put them over the top. Which role will Thibs play? We should have a better idea in the postseason.

Was it Showalter leaving or was it guys like Jeter having a great rookie year and Mariano finding his role as a relief pitcher? Give Thibs a shot, we didn’t have a lot of talent 2 years ago we have a lot more talent now

Its not the abscence of Showalter that made them better, but the inclusion of Torre. He was more of a player's coach. Showalter was more old school, from what I remember.

The same thing happened with Showalter in Arizona. Got them close to contending, and was replaced by Brenly. You know the rest.

We all winced when Torre was hired.
His record was under .500 with St Louis and Atlanta. He had a really bad end of season collapse with ATL>. Really bad.
But in 12 years they made the playoffs every year, went to 6 World Series and won 4.
Hindsight it was genius move!

Knicks at some point will either prove Thibs a championship caliber coach or will have to hire one. That "One" is either championship qualified with experience or will be in the same boat as those aspiring.

Coaches do change or coach to what they have as talent. Showalter can change some, no?
Torre same coach in ATL and St Louis? Or experience help him be better?
Thibs the same as stops in Chicago and Minny

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Been saying all season. Regular season success is great. Playoff success is more important. Dont really care if we have a great regular season coach, and thats it.

Thibs has done a very good job in helping change the culture of the organization. As a fan of more than 50 years, Im grateful for that.

Not so grateful that I would want the FO to pass on a search for a replacement. If Thibs gets outcoached in the playoffs. I know some want to make Thibs coach for life. I want to see how far Thibs can take a good team first.

If the FO isnt happy with the way the playoffs went. Did a search, and concluded that Thibs was still the best choice. Im ok with that too. The point is to keep finding ways to get better.

Buck Showalter was a very good manager, helped the Yankees level up. But it took Joe Torre to put them over the top. Which role will Thibs play? We should have a better idea in the postseason.

Was it Showalter leaving or was it guys like Jeter having a great rookie year and Mariano finding his role as a relief pitcher? Give Thibs a shot, we didn’t have a lot of talent 2 years ago we have a lot more talent now

Its not the abscence of Showalter that made them better, but the inclusion of Torre. He was more of a player's coach. Showalter was more old school, from what I remember.

The same thing happened with Showalter in Arizona. Got them close to contending, and was replaced by Brenly. You know the rest.

We all winced when Torre was hired.
His record was under .500 with St Louis and Atlanta. He had a really bad end of season collapse with ATL>. Really bad.
But in 12 years they made the playoffs every year, went to 6 World Series and won 4.
Hindsight it was genius move!

Knicks at some point will either prove Thibs a championship caliber coach or will have to hire one. That "One" is either championship qualified with experience or will be in the same boat as those aspiring.

Coaches do change or coach to what they have as talent. Showalter can change some, no?
Torre same coach in ATL and St Louis? Or experience help him be better?
Thibs the same as stops in Chicago and Minny

Yup, I was surprised as well. My guess was that Torre gives a hell of an interview, to get all those gigs. I remember having a Torre trading card when he was playimg with the Mets. Saw him a couple of times as well. Bet you did too. That made it more palatable for me. Felt bad for Showalter.

The best choice might not be a big name, or it might be Thibs. I want the postseason determining how the FO moves forward. From the players to the head coach.

If they believe they have a way of improving our chances, I hope they go for it. Not looking for change just for the sake of change.

GustavBahler wrote:Been saying all season. Regular season success is great. Playoff success is more important. Dont really care if we have a great regular season coach, and thats it.

Thibs has done a very good job in helping change the culture of the organization. As a fan of more than 50 years, Im grateful for that.

Not so grateful that I would want the FO to pass on a search for a replacement. If Thibs gets outcoached in the playoffs. I know some want to make Thibs coach for life. I want to see how far Thibs can take a good team first.

If the FO isnt happy with the way the playoffs went. Did a search, and concluded that Thibs was still the best choice. Im ok with that too. The point is to keep finding ways to get better.

Buck Showalter was a very good manager, helped the Yankees level up. But it took Joe Torre to put them over the top. Which role will Thibs play? We should have a better idea in the postseason.

Knicks are going to be the 5th seed so they are playing a team with more wins in the first round. Is your expectation we win or Thibs phucked up?

blkexec wrote:.

Question: If we lose to the Cavs in a game 7 series, Thibs shows improvement and Randle is a beast, does Thibs and/or Randle get a pass? Just curious!

Of course!
I mean, I wouldn't even call it getting a pass. There's no reason to expect the Knicks are favorites to beat the Cavs in a series. A 7 game series means they played well.

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Been saying all season. Regular season success is great. Playoff success is more important. Dont really care if we have a great regular season coach, and thats it.

Thibs has done a very good job in helping change the culture of the organization. As a fan of more than 50 years, Im grateful for that.

Not so grateful that I would want the FO to pass on a search for a replacement. If Thibs gets outcoached in the playoffs. I know some want to make Thibs coach for life. I want to see how far Thibs can take a good team first.

If the FO isnt happy with the way the playoffs went. Did a search, and concluded that Thibs was still the best choice. Im ok with that too. The point is to keep finding ways to get better.

Buck Showalter was a very good manager, helped the Yankees level up. But it took Joe Torre to put them over the top. Which role will Thibs play? We should have a better idea in the postseason.

I agree with Gus for the most part. But letting the playoffs dictate the next move can be tricky. Remember thats why we added Kemba and EF, based on our series with ATL, which was the wrong move (lol).

This playoff run will be interesting. I think Brunson is the saving grace for both Thibs and Randle this year, eventhough the Cavs are a better team than what ATL was.

Question: If we lose to the Cavs in a game 7 series, Thibs shows improvement and Randle is a beast, does Thibs and/or Randle get a pass? Just curious!

I'd have to use Toronto firing Dwayne Casey after 7 years despite winning COY as a template for making such a move. To be fair, Nurse got Kawhai mid season and won a title which makes that move a slam dunk in hindsight, but the issue was Toronto could not get over the hump in the playoffs prior and while Casey did a good job, it was not enough. That team perhaps went as far as it could with that coach.
It happens.
Im very blown away by how much criticism knicks got losing to ATL. A 4 losing to a 5 is not a major upset. It not like knicks toiled in mediocrity for years with a set roster. It was his first year as coach.
Im suprised how RJ in the same vein. Fans need to know how long things can take.
Thibs perhaps was on the hot seat earlier for good reason. Because the team was talented. Not because fans were impatient.
Thibs righted the ship and all is very very good now.
We get bounced by Cavs lets see how it unfolded. Was it a sweep? Injuries play a factor? Was team unprepared? Did they give up? Did we got 4 games, 5? 7?.......were we outcoached? Sub patterns off?
For a team to go into season with low expectations did we play over our heads? If so do you penalize a coach because of it?
This team looks pretty together, and maybe playing above its pay grade sort of. Thats due to good coaching BTW!!!!!

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Been saying all season. Regular season success is great. Playoff success is more important. Dont really care if we have a great regular season coach, and thats it.

Thibs has done a very good job in helping change the culture of the organization. As a fan of more than 50 years, Im grateful for that.

Not so grateful that I would want the FO to pass on a search for a replacement. If Thibs gets outcoached in the playoffs. I know some want to make Thibs coach for life. I want to see how far Thibs can take a good team first.

If the FO isnt happy with the way the playoffs went. Did a search, and concluded that Thibs was still the best choice. Im ok with that too. The point is to keep finding ways to get better.

Buck Showalter was a very good manager, helped the Yankees level up. But it took Joe Torre to put them over the top. Which role will Thibs play? We should have a better idea in the postseason.

I agree with Gus for the most part. But letting the playoffs dictate the next move can be tricky. Remember thats why we added Kemba and EF, based on our series with ATL, which was the wrong move (lol).

This playoff run will be interesting. I think Brunson is the saving grace for both Thibs and Randle this year, eventhough the Cavs are a better team than what ATL was.

Question: If we lose to the Cavs in a game 7 series, Thibs shows improvement and Randle is a beast, does Thibs and/or Randle get a pass? Just curious!

Disagree with Gustav regarding the Knicks looking to replace Thibs if playoffs don't pan out.
As the example he gave shows, firings come from failure to meet expectations. A loaded NY Yankees squad with some of the best players in the game have different expectations than the 2022/23 NY Knicks team. And as he mentioned, Thibs has excelled in changing the culture. IMO, he has also done a great job with player development and has exceeded regular season expectations. Which I feel are components a smart FO analyze when reviewing a coaches performance.

If Knicks lose to the Cavs, every knee jerk fan will want Thibs and Randle gone. A smart FO will realize that it is progress and they will look to add another piece to the puzzle. Which they already know is needed.

Even if we got eliminated round 1 it would depend on how it happened. 7 game series I think Thibs is safe. 4 or 5 games? I don’t know

gradyandrew wrote:I do think it's interesting that for the near infinite amount of data available on players (for example, ditching spectrum's point data to get 3D data for next season), coaching seems to be almost data free. Mike Brown and Thibs are known for being defensive coaches but this year their teams are winning through offense.

The only scholarly article I have ever read was from about 10 years ago. It said that a rookie coach loses his team 2 wins a season while a 5 year vet wins his team 2 games. I think the most accurate predictor for team success is the Vegas line (following Nassib Taleb's 'skin in the game rule').) Vegas had them at 38.5. I don't think anyone is looking at this team saying "They failed to meet expectations."

So sorry Gustav and blkexec, I don't think there's any scenario where replacing Thibs is either realistic or reasonable.

Pat Riley went from being an offensive guru with the showtime Lakers to Mr Defense here. Great coaches are flexible and use that flexibility to get results. Just by win/loss metric alone Woodson and Thibs are the 2 best Knick head coaches since Van Gundy and there’s an entire world separating them and everyone else. Hornacek might have been a decent head coach but Kristaps derailed his tenure with his stupidity. I liked Mike Miller and I think he may surprise people if he ever gets another shot at being a head coach